No not at all. There is plenty of blame to go around, including the players in question. Is there a manager in the world that you would give a pass to and then blame Dunn and Rios?

 

Oz 10% Players 90% is about my assessment.

Let me put it this way...I have no idea how the balance goes, but "only a portion of the problem is the manager" tells me that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

A struggling team was on a roll for a week before getting trounced by the class of the division. I was just thinking, it is amazing this is a second place team. How much talent to you have to start with to play this crappy and be a second place team? Yeah $125,000,000 of talent.

Let me put it this way...I have no idea how the balance goes, but "only a portion of the problem is the manager" tells me that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

Ok, the entire organization is a problem. Same as if the organization wins, everyone shares the credit.

A struggling team was on a roll for a week before getting trounced by the class of the division. I was just thinking, it is amazing this is a second place team. How much talent to you have to start with to play this crappy and be a second place team? Yeah $125,000,000 of talent.

 

Don't you mean 3rd place in a terrible division?

Ok, the entire organization is a problem. Same as if the organization wins, everyone shares the credit.

As long as you understand that you're not defending Guillen, you're indicting him.

As long as you understand that you're not defending Guillen, you're indicting him.

 

Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault?

Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault?

 

Who is more to blame. The veteran player hitting so bad that he is now in some historic conversations on futility. Or the manager who trotted him out there in the 4 hole and against lefties for the better part of the season. Most managers drop the player in the order to help him find himself and then work on match-ups. Guillen seemed to go against the grain and just throw him into the 4 hole into the wolves so to speak.

 

Who is more to blame. The veteran player hitting so bad that he is now in some historic conversations on futility. Or the manager who trotted him out there in the 4 hole and against lefties for the better part of the season. Most managers drop the player in the order to help him find himself and then work on match-ups. Guillen seemed to go against the grain and just throw him into the 4 hole into the wolves so to speak.

 

Both share the blame, more to Dunn. And blame is maybe not the right word. Responsibility would be better. Who is more responsible for Dunn's performance? I believe Dunn.

 

 

Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault?

And an appropriate response might have been to replace those struggling players, or to bench them at least for a long time, and put guys who were deserving of playing time in the lineup. That would have meant taking Dunn, Rios, Pierre for a while, maybe Beckham also, out of the lineup for days, weeks at a time and getting at bats for Viciedo, De Aza, and Lillibridge almost every day.

 

But...Ozzie Guillen said no to that.

That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree?

 

What?! He completely refuted the point you made, and that was your response? I don't even know what it's supposed to mean.

That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree?

You're hilarious.

Both share the blame, more to Dunn. And blame is maybe not the right word. Responsibility would be better. Who is more responsible for Dunn's performance? I believe Dunn.

 

 

So as a manager if I have 2 engineers. One of which forgot how to do his job. If I knowingly send the one to customers day in an day out and leave the other one on the engineering bench. Am I doing my job. I mean sure, the engineer is incompetent and probably needs to get better. However do you think my clients will care. Do you think they will call up and say well you know, its not your fault that he blew up our system. I blame the engineer.

 

 

 

 

It's unfortunate Ozzie was allowed to continue his antics for so long. He managed us brilliantly to a World Series title, and I'll always love him for that.

 

BUT GET THE F*CK OUT!

Yeah that was Ozzie laughing in the dugout last night. LAUGHING.

 

When asked on air if he would be laughing, Bobby Valentine said "I don't think I could force a smile right now..."

 

What's wrong with laughing at these losers?

He has it made. Will get a 4-5 year deal in Florida for a lot of loot. Somebody else can coach these plodding losers.

What's wrong with laughing at these losers?

He has it made. Will get a 4-5 year deal in Florida for a lot of loot. Somebody else can coach these plodding losers.

"A lot of loot" from Florida?

"A lot of loot" from Florida?

 

You don't think he'll make more than he did here?

Uh oh. Fifth inning.

This could be the six-run spot on Humber.

You don't think he'll make more than he did here?

What's wrong with laughing at these losers?

He has it made. Will get a 4-5 year deal in Florida for a lot of loot. Somebody else can coach these plodding losers.

 

He will get a 3 year deal tops.

Ozzie will fail in Florida. He'll bench Stanton for hitting HRs.

He will get a 3 year deal tops.

 

It will be four year deal.

Why wouldn't it be?

So as a manager if I have 2 engineers. One of which forgot how to do his job. If I knowingly send the one to customers day in an day out and leave the other one on the engineering bench. Am I doing my job. I mean sure, the engineer is incompetent and probably needs to get better. However do you think my clients will care. Do you think they will call up and say well you know, its not your fault that he blew up our system. I blame the engineer.

 

I would fire him right away. Are you suggesting Dunn should have been fired?

 

You really used that example? Do you seriously think that is a good comparison?

It will be four year deal.

Why wouldn't it be?

Because it doesn't need to be? Florida is generally cheap anyway, and Ozzie is not exactly going to have a lot of negotiating strength.

lol. Thanks but a 1,000 posts that Oz sucks and should be fired versus two that it ain't all his fault is about right

 

 

I guess we were destroyed or something, or so I was told

 

I never believed it was all Ozzie's fault. I am sure though this off season will be plenty interesting

I guess we were destroyed or something, or so I was told

 

I never believed it was all Ozzie's fault. I am sure though this off season will be plenty interesting

 

LOL. Ozzie single handily destroyed a couple player's careers. With a different manager, Dunn would be an MVP candidate and Mark would be an ace. It is easier to blame one guy than a roster of players. I think it is time to break up the KW / OG team, but Oz isn't the reason Dunn and Rios had two of the most memorable years in modern baseball history. And if I was going to keep just one, KW is definitely the one I would keep. It would be silly to suggest that Oz had a great season as manager, along with everyone else, he was below expectations.

 

Also, watch how fast players start blaming the guy who is let go.