Brief thought

[clujer420]

I don't want to take much time because I need to get some sleep, but I just wanted to comment on something. Jon Garland. He is gutless, and apparently cannot win an important game when the Sox needed him to come through. Everyone's "waiting for him to breakthrough", but I personally don't see him improving at all. It seems like he'll have 1 decent game (6 IP, 3 ER or so), then a mediocre game (5 IP, 4 ER or so), then 1 really good one (7 IP, 1 or 2 ER), and that keeps his ERA around 4.50, with his W/L record constantly hovering around the .500 mark. I know he's still young, but it's time to stop making excuses for the guy. If he's got such great stuff, let's f***ing see it. What's he doing, saving it? Knowing how things go for the Sox, we'll "give up" on him, and he'll turn into a 17 game winner with an ERA in the 3's, but that's just how it's gonna have to be.

 

Everytime you start to think this kid's got it figured out, he proves you wrong. He had a 5 game stretch (from 6/30-7/24) where he had 4 very solid games (7 IP, 2 ER in all 4 games), with a stinker (4 2/3 IP, 4 ER) tossed in. I would gladly take that. But, unfortunately, that's as good as it's gotten with Jon. He's had 24 starts now, and in 10 of them he's given up 4+ ER, and only 10 times has he allowed fewer hits than IP. That is unacceptable.

 

The Sox needed to win last night to salvage the series against a horrible Angels team, but the Angels just outplayed us, and that's not right. The Angels are playing for nothing, while the Sox are supposedly playing for a division title. We could have cut it back down to 1 game, but instead, we head into Texas down 2. We'd better come out with our bats on fire tonight. But even if they don't, at least we've got a dependable pitcher on the hill who will give us better than 5 IP and 5 ER.

 

[Wong & Owens]

I don't want to take much time because I need to get some sleep, but I just wanted to comment on something.  Jon Garland.  He is gutless, and apparently cannot win an important game when the Sox needed him to come through.  Everyone's "waiting for him to breakthrough", but I personally don't see him improving at all.  It seems like he'll have 1 decent game (6 IP, 3 ER or so), then a mediocre game (5 IP, 4 ER or so), then 1 really good one (7 IP, 1 or 2 ER), and that keeps his ERA around 4.50, with his W/L record constantly hovering around the .500 mark.  I know he's still young, but it's time to stop making excuses for the guy.  If he's got such great stuff, let's f***ing see it.  What's he doing, saving it?  Knowing how things go for the Sox, we'll "give up" on him, and he'll turn into a 17 game winner with an ERA in the 3's, but that's just how it's gonna have to be.

 

Everytime you start to think this kid's got it figured out, he proves you wrong.  He had a 5 game stretch (from 6/30-7/24) where he had 4 very solid games (7 IP, 2 ER in all 4 games), with a stinker (4 2/3 IP, 4 ER) tossed in.  I would gladly take that.  But, unfortunately, that's as good as it's gotten with Jon.  He's had 24 starts now, and in 10 of them he's given up 4+ ER, and only 10 times has he allowed fewer hits than IP.  That is unacceptable.

 

The Sox needed to win last night to salvage the series against a horrible Angels team, but the Angels just outplayed us, and that's not right.  The Angels are playing for nothing, while the Sox are supposedly playing for a division title.  We could have cut it back down to 1 game, but instead, we head into Texas down 2.  We'd better come out with our bats on fire tonight.  But even if they don't, at least we've got a dependable pitcher on the hill who will give us better than 5 IP and 5 ER.

 

I agree that he doesn't "get it" yet, but he is what 23? Many pitchers don't get it for many years, whether the "it" is a mental thing, control, another pitch, etc. The league is filled with very good pitchers that didn't have "it" when they were 23 either. Here's some numbers for currently good pitchers when they were 23:

 

Colon--Not in MLB. When he was 24, he went 4-7 with a 5.65 ERA

Pettitte--Not in MLB. At 24, he was 12-9 with 4.17 ERA

D. Wells--Not in MLB. His first 2 years combined produced a 7-8 record and a 4.30 ERA

Big Unit: Not in MLB, and only pitched 4 games at 24. But at 25 he was 7-13 with a 4.82 ERA

Glavine--14-8 with a 3.68 ERA, but slipped to 10-12 with a 4.28 ERA the next season

Al Leiter--1-2 with a 5.67 ERA, wasn't a full-time starter until 28.

Russ Ortiz--4-4 with a 4.99 ERA

 

Enough stat spewing, my only point is that he's still a kid, and there are a lot of baseball people that surely gave up on the above-mentioned players at 23 or 24, and are kicking themselves for it.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

This is what I was getting at yesterday, and you are absolutely correct.

[cwsox]

he gave up 3 earned runs in 6+ innings yesterday, not too shabby, doesn't that qualify as a quality start?

[kevingrt13]

I don't want to take much time because I need to get some sleep, but I just wanted to comment on something.  Jon Garland.  He is gutless, and apparently cannot win an important game when the Sox needed him to come through.  Everyone's "waiting for him to breakthrough", but I personally don't see him improving at all.  It seems like he'll have 1 decent game (6 IP, 3 ER or so), then a mediocre game (5 IP, 4 ER or so), then 1 really good one (7 IP, 1 or 2 ER), and that keeps his ERA around 4.50, with his W/L record constantly hovering around the .500 mark.  I know he's still young, but it's time to stop making excuses for the guy.  If he's got such great stuff, let's f***ing see it.  What's he doing, saving it?  Knowing how things go for the Sox, we'll "give up" on him, and he'll turn into a 17 game winner with an ERA in the 3's, but that's just how it's gonna have to be.

 

Everytime you start to think this kid's got it figured out, he proves you wrong.  He had a 5 game stretch (from 6/30-7/24) where he had 4 very solid games (7 IP, 2 ER in all 4 games), with a stinker (4 2/3 IP, 4 ER) tossed in.  I would gladly take that.  But, unfortunately, that's as good as it's gotten with Jon.  He's had 24 starts now, and in 10 of them he's given up 4+ ER, and only 10 times has he allowed fewer hits than IP.  That is unacceptable.

 

The Sox needed to win last night to salvage the series against a horrible Angels team, but the Angels just outplayed us, and that's not right.  The Angels are playing for nothing, while the Sox are supposedly playing for a division title.  We could have cut it back down to 1 game, but instead, we head into Texas down 2.  We'd better come out with our bats on fire tonight.  But even if they don't, at least we've got a dependable pitcher on the hill who will give us better than 5 IP and 5 ER.

 

Breif is an understatement for that post, but you are correct on your statements!

[CWSOX45]

I don't want to take much time because I need to get some sleep, but I just wanted to comment on something.  Jon Garland.  He is gutless, and apparently cannot win an important game when the Sox needed him to come through.  Everyone's "waiting for him to breakthrough", but I personally don't see him improving at all.  It seems like he'll have 1 decent game (6 IP, 3 ER or so), then a mediocre game (5 IP, 4 ER or so), then 1 really good one (7 IP, 1 or 2 ER), and that keeps his ERA around 4.50, with his W/L record constantly hovering around the .500 mark.  I know he's still young, but it's time to stop making excuses for the guy.  If he's got such great stuff, let's f***ing see it.  What's he doing, saving it?  Knowing how things go for the Sox, we'll "give up" on him, and he'll turn into a 17 game winner with an ERA in the 3's, but that's just how it's gonna have to be.

 

Everytime you start to think this kid's got it figured out, he proves you wrong.  He had a 5 game stretch (from 6/30-7/24) where he had 4 very solid games (7 IP, 2 ER in all 4 games), with a stinker (4 2/3 IP, 4 ER) tossed in.  I would gladly take that.  But, unfortunately, that's as good as it's gotten with Jon.  He's had 24 starts now, and in 10 of them he's given up 4+ ER, and only 10 times has he allowed fewer hits than IP.  That is unacceptable.

 

The Sox needed to win last night to salvage the series against a horrible Angels team, but the Angels just outplayed us, and that's not right.  The Angels are playing for nothing, while the Sox are supposedly playing for a division title.  We could have cut it back down to 1 game, but instead, we head into Texas down 2.  We'd better come out with our bats on fire tonight.  But even if they don't, at least we've got a dependable pitcher on the hill who will give us better than 5 IP and 5 ER.

 

I hope you're kidding. Garland deserved to win tonight, our offense let us down big time tonight. 2 of those runs were earned due to the error by Olivo.

 

Garland didn't disappoint us, the offense did. That's why we lost last night.

 

CWSOX45

[CWSOX45]

he gave up 3 earned runs in 6+ innings yesterday, not too shabby, doesn't that qualify as a quality start?

In most people's minds no.

 

I'm not quite sure what they expect from Garland.

 

Garland did everything I expected him to do last night. As a matter of fact out of those three runs one of those was unearned because of the play where Olivo lost sight of the ball.

 

I wish people would realize that we lost the game last night because Jon had no help offensively.

 

CWSOX45

[IlliniKrush]

Damn that jon garland, he can't win when the offense only provides him with 2 hits while he's still in the game. One of the runs was unearned and Wunsch let his other guy score.

 

If the offense showed up at all, no one would be b****ing about Garland's start. Just another reason wins and losses mean next to nothing for a starting pitcher.

[Harry Chappas]

Jon Garland is the least of our worries. He is probably the best number four starter outside of the Bronx and Oakland. The guy above anything else is very durable and he is getting it together.

[SpringfieldFan]

I am just tired of hearing people excuse him because of his young age. It may be true, but how much longer do we have to hear it?

[Bmr31]

I am just tired of hearing people excuse him because of his young age.  It may be true, but how much longer do we have to hear it?

The age excuse is bulls***. He has been pitching in the major leagues for 4 years now. Youth is not the reason. Cluejers post is totally valid.

[rafacosta]

We lost yesterday game because our offense didnt give any support for Jon Garland. He pitched well, but our offense was the problem for us yesterday.

[CWSOX45]

The age excuse is bulls***.  He has been pitching in the major leagues for 4 years now.  Youth is not the reason.  Cluejers post is totally valid.

He has been pitching fine, he's had rotten luck the last few starts.

 

No one, I mean no one on this staff would have won last night's game. We had 2 hits going into the 7th inning.

 

Jon Garland is not the problem.

 

CWSOX45

[Bmr31]

We lost yesterday game because our offense didnt give any support for Jon Garland. He pitched well, but our offense was the problem for us yesterday.

who gives a CRAP about yesterday??????????????? Every excuse maker in this thread pointed to yesterday. The fact is Garland hasnt shown to be the pitcher we all expected. I hardly think clujer was talking about one game.

[whitesox247]

Not to defend Garland or anything, but 3 runs in 6 innings aint that bad. Sometimes we just have to give credit to the other pitcher. Scot Shields had his A+ stuff last night and he shut us down. The only thing that you can ask from a 23 year old should be just to have quality starts and continue to develop. He is doing that right now. I think everyone will admit that he is pitching alot better than last year.

[Bmr31]

He has been pitching fine, he's had rotten luck the last few starts.

 

No one, I mean no one on this staff would have won last night's game. We had 2 hits going into the 7th inning.

 

Jon Garland is not the problem.

 

CWSOX45

Noone said he was the problem. If we only had one............... The point was, he is not the pitcher as advertised, and if he hasnt shown that promise by now, he likely wont. Two years ago, Garland was my favorite player. I was so high on him. Just like CLuejer, im f***ing tired of waiting for even a glimmer of that promise to shine through. Stop your excuse making.

[Bmr31]

Not to defend Garland or anything, but 3 runs in 6 innings aint that bad. Sometimes we just have to give credit to the other pitcher. Scot Shields had his A+ stuff last night and he shut us down. The only thing that you can ask from a 23 year old should be just to have quality starts and continue to develop. He is doing that right now. I think everyone will admit that he is pitching alot better than last year.

omg..........lol.

[Sox1422]

Garland needs to put the bong down for a while and try to concentrate on pitching.

 

C'mon Jon. Save the reefer for the off season! :dips***

[rafacosta]

who gives a CRAP about yesterday??????????????? Every excuse maker in this thread pointed to yesterday. The fact  is Garland hasnt shown to be the pitcher we all expected.  I hardly think clujer was talking about one game.

What you think about MB´s first half???

 

So let´s get rid of Jon G and let him pitch for another team...

 

His ERA is down compared to last year and he is improving. Next year he will get better, IMO.

[Rowand44]

he gave up 3 earned runs in 6+ innings yesterday, not too shabby, doesn't that qualify as a quality start?

Yes that does qualify as a quality start, Garland pitched fine yesterday, most of the time when a team scores 1 run they're not going to win the game, yesterday was not Garland's fault, he's a good pitcher, and he's only going to get better.

[Bmr31]

What you think about MB´s first half???

 

So let´s get rid of Jon G and let him pitch for another team...

 

His ERA is down compared to last year and he is improving. Next year he will get better, IMO.

WHo said get rid of him? Why make up things? All i ever said is hes a disappointment.

[rafacosta]

What you think about MB´s first half???

 

So let´s get rid of Jon G and let him pitch for another team...

 

His ERA is down compared to last year and he is improving. Next year he will get better, IMO.

WHo said get rid of him? Why make up things? All i ever said is hes a disappointment.

Ok, so you have lost your confidence with Jon G, and dont want to wait for his great pitcher to show up...if you dont want to wait, what you will gonna do??? Send him to the minors?? I think he cant go to the minors, so you will have to trade him.

[CWSOX45]

He has been pitching fine, he's had rotten luck the last few starts.

 

No one, I mean no one on this staff would have won last night's game. We had 2 hits going into the 7th inning.

 

Jon Garland is not the problem.

 

CWSOX45

Noone said he was the problem. If we only had one............... The point was, he is not the pitcher as advertised, and if he hasnt shown that promise by now, he likely wont. Two years ago, Garland was my favorite player. I was so high on him. Just like CLuejer, im f***ing tired of waiting for even a glimmer of that promise to shine through. Stop your excuse making.

He's 23 years old. He's just turning the corner.

 

Most guys don't reach their full potential until their late 20's or early 30's.

 

I don't care what people say, Jon Garland is a stud and has a bright future in front of him.

 

CWSOX45

[Bmr31]

He has been pitching fine, he's had rotten luck the last few starts.

 

No one, I mean no one on this staff would have won last night's game. We had 2 hits going into the 7th inning.

 

Jon Garland is not the problem.

 

CWSOX45

Noone said he was the problem. If we only had one............... The point was, he is not the pitcher as advertised, and if he hasnt shown that promise by now, he likely wont. Two years ago, Garland was my favorite player. I was so high on him. Just like CLuejer, im f***ing tired of waiting for even a glimmer of that promise to shine through. Stop your excuse making.

He's 23 years old. He's just turning the corner.

 

Most guys don't reach their full potential until their late 20's or early 30's.

 

I don't care what people say, Jon Garland is a stud and has a bright future in front of him.

 

CWSOX45

I sure hope so...........I used to believe that, believe me..

[kevingrt13]

Garland needs to put the bong down for a while and try to concentrate on pitching.

 

C'mon Jon.  Save the reefer for the off season! :dips***

hey, he's a cali type of guy what can you say?