Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) Q is not going to be a better pitcher than a healthy John Danks. So far the numbers say otherwise. Do I expect the league to catch up with Q? Yes. Will they? Time will tell. Have they yet? No. And we don't have a healthy John Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 08:10 PM) Q is not going to be a better pitcher than a healthy John Danks. We sure of that? Danks was healthy last year and not very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) We sure of that? Danks was healthy last year and not very good. According to them, he wasn't average last year...he had one bad start. I think Danks was completely average last year...and downright terrible this year. And now while it's convenient to blame the injury...he still went out there and sucked all season until we put him on the DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) Q is not going to be a better pitcher than a healthy John Danks. People must have made similar statements about Buehrle the first couple years he was up too. Doesn't mean it's going to happen, but he's looked awfully good since being called up. He always put up pretty good numbers in the minors as well so I don't think we can make such absolute statements like that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) We sure of that? Danks was healthy last year and not very good. Q is putting up better numbers at the major league level than he ever did in the minors. He is due for a pretty sizable regression. Danks is a proven major league pitcher. His numbers last year screamed, my defense f***ed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) According to them, he wasn't average last year...he had one bad start. I think Danks was completely average last year...and downright terrible this year. And now while it's convenient to blame the injury...he still went out there and sucked all season until we put him on the DL. I think he's been pretty average his whole career so far. Everyone, myself included, has always said they're waiting for him to bust out, but the longer he treads along the solid #2/3 starter territory, the more likely it becomes that that is all he will ever be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) People must have made similar statements about Buehrle the first couple years he was up too. Doesn't mean it's going to happen, but he's looked awfully good since being called up. He always put up pretty good numbers in the minors as well so I don't think we can make such absolute statements like that yet. I'm pretty comfortable with it. I am not going to let eight major league starts over run what Danks has done at the major league level for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Here is my honest assessment of Danks...and I seriously hope to be proven wrong on this. He's Mark Buehrle with more power and less control, but a less effective pitcher because even though he can hit the strike zone...he's not hitting it where he wants too. IMO, and I'm not forgetting the injury, I think the league is catching up with him, and after returning from injury he will be a 4-5 ERA pitcher for the rest of his career, a #3 at best...and a #4 at worst. He will be serviceable...but never better than slightly above average, if not just average. In the end, I think he's being paid too much for what he's going to bring this team over the next few years. I hope I'm wrong about this...but I don't think I will be. Feel free to bring it up and make fun of me in a year or two if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Danks is not a finesse pitcher. There's a lot more than velocity involved in being a power pitcher. Oh, and a number 3 pitcher with his background doesn't "suck." Where do people come up with this s***? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) Danks is not a finesse pitcher. There's a lot more than velocity involved in being a power pitcher. Oh, and a number 3 pitcher with his background doesn't "suck." Where do people come up with this s***? First, yes he is. What he's NOT is a power pitcher...I think you are absolutely wrong on this in every regard. People come up with opinions all of the time, and you don't have to agree with them. But, to elaborate, I think he's been pegged to be a #1 by this organization...and at worst a #2...and most people viewed him as an upcoming #1/#2 at worst. NOT a #3, or a #4. So if he becomes a #3, or a #4, IMO, he's fallen short of expectations. Can he be a serviceable #3/#4...yes. Only I've already said that a number of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 03:20 PM) First, yes he is. What he's NOT is a power pitcher...I think you are absolutely wrong on this in every regard. People come up with opinions all of the time, and you don't have to agree with them. But, to elaborate, I think he's been pegged to be a #1 by this organization...and at worst a #2...and most people viewed him as an upcoming #1/#2 at worst. NOT a #3, or a #4. So if he becomes a #3, or a #4, IMO, he's fallen short of expectations. Can he be a serviceable #3/#4...yes. Only I've already said that a number of times. Doesn't pitch to contact + tries to K everyone + attempts to overpower bats = power pitcher. There's nothing finesse about Danks approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Like it or not, based on John's track record, the deal we gave him in the offseason was very fair. You can assign that to a rotation spot if you'd like, but if he duplicates his past years over the years of this deal we have done well. That's all that matters. John is a very, very good pitcher. He's not the most consistent guy in the world, but the truth is that he puts up pretty good-excellent numbers every season since being a rookie. There is zero reason for me to believe he won't be just as good or better as soon as he is healthy again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 12:55 PM) Ugh. Of course, because it is the year after he signed a five year deal and we are in a pennant race. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (At what point do we start randomly tweeting reporters and asking if Danks's contract is insured?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) Doesn't pitch to contact + tries to K everyone + attempts to overpower bats = power pitcher. There's nothing finesse about Danks approach. But he hardly Ks anyone, so regardless of him wanting to be a power pitcher...he's not. He also overpowers nobody...so what exactly are you talking about here? Peavy WAS a power pitcher, and he's still more of a power pitcher than Danks ever will be. Sale is a power pitcher. Danks is not, regardless of what he tries to be. That shows he's not pitching to his strengths, if anything. That's also saying he believes he's a power pitcher like you do...and you are the first person I've ever known to call him that. His historic stat line also says otherwise. Far less Ks than innings pitched, usually as many or more hits as innings pitched. That != power pitcher. It means he's pitching to contact, if anything. Edited July 12, 2012 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:43 PM) But he hardly Ks anyone, so regardless of him wanting to be a power pitcher...he's not. He also overpowers nobody...so what exactly are you talking about here? Peavy WAS a power pitcher, and he's still more of a power pitcher than Danks ever will be. Sale is a power pitcher. Danks is not, regardless of what he tries to be. That shows he's not pitching to his strengths, if anything. Even with this year, Danks has averaged 7k/9IP over his career. That isn't really "hardly K's anyone". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I'm no doctor, but the way Danks' shoulder has responded to rest indicates to me there is something more severe than previously thought. This is going nowhere near like we were lead to believe. Its almost time for a towel drill. Edited July 12, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:52 PM) I no doctor, but the way Danks' shoulder has responded to rest indicates to me there is something more severe than previously thought. This is going nowhere near like we were lead to believe. Its almost time for a towel drill. They haven't been able to find any actual major damage. Exactly what are they supposed to diagnose without it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:52 PM) Even with this year, Danks has averaged 7k/9IP over his career. That isn't really "hardly K's anyone". Fine, I may be exaggerating my point, but I still dont see him as a power pitcher...if that stat line you posted is even right...it seems inflated. So tell me, do YOU see him as a power pitcher?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:53 PM) They haven't been able to find any actual major damage. Exactly what are they supposed to diagnose without it? Whether they can see damage or not, rest isn't working, which would indicate there is some damage IMO. Eventually it gets found. For Danks, the Sox and us, the sooner the better. Injuries aren't always easily spotted on exams. KW called Lorenzo Barcelo a p**** because he wouldn't pitch through some pain and they could find anything wrong with him. Eventually he had elbow and shoulder surgeries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:43 PM) But he hardly Ks anyone, so regardless of him wanting to be a power pitcher...he's not. He also overpowers nobody...so what exactly are you talking about here? Peavy WAS a power pitcher, and he's still more of a power pitcher than Danks ever will be. Sale is a power pitcher. Danks is not, regardless of what he tries to be. That shows he's not pitching to his strengths, if anything. That's also saying he believes he's a power pitcher like you do...and you are the first person I've ever known to call him that. His historic stat line also says otherwise. Far less Ks than innings pitched, usually as many or more hits as innings pitched. That != power pitcher. It means he's pitching to contact, if anything. The argument isn't about how you think he'd be most effective, it's about what he is, power pitcher. Another Sox power pitcher who didn't throw hard, Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:59 PM) The argument isn't about how you think he'd be most effective, it's about what he is, power pitcher. Another Sox power pitcher who didn't throw hard, Garland. He's not a power pitcher. And Garland was a sinkerballer. They pitch to contact. That's the point of the sinker. Edited July 13, 2012 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:55 PM) Fine, I may be exaggerating my point, but I still dont see him as a power pitcher...if that stat line you posted is even right...it seems inflated. So tell me, do YOU see him as a power pitcher?! http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/danksjo01.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 07:02 PM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/danksjo01.shtml Answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 06:59 PM) He's not a power pitcher. And Garland was a sinkerballer. They pitch to contact. That's the point of the sinker. Ummm does power sinker ring a bell? That was Garland's best pitch. Apparently you associate power with velocity which is a fallacy. If velocity is all you're looking for, Danks tops out at 94 which would put him in the top 20ish% of LH starters. Edited July 13, 2012 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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