Help me understand the shift.

[balfanman]

I know that we've had this discussion in the past, particularly when Thome was here, but I just don't understand why hitters like Thome / Dunn don't actively try to take away the shift. I know that they are "boppers", and you "don't change their style", but geez, just put the thought in the defenses mind once in a while that you can go the other way.

 

In Dunns case, and I think the shift on him is more extreme than it was for Thome, it looks like thay have all four infielders on the same side of the field. As Farmer has said many times when he is up, Dunn can "bunt a double here". All he would have to do is tap the ball to the 3rd base side and he is on base, and if he does that occaissionally the defense would at least have to keep their 3rd baseman on the 3rd base side, giving a little better chance of getting a hit when he pulls the ball. I think that he has had a few singles taken away because all four infielders are on the 1st base side.

 

I know the pitchers pitch him inside to make him hit it to the 1st base side, but I also know he gets balls thrown to him, mistakes or not, that are outside. It sems to me that all that is needed is a tap to the 3rd base side once in a while to help keep the defense honest. The defense would still shift, just not as extreme.

 

I guess it must be in the "ego" of these type of players to just power their way through the shift, but I believe that they are really hurting the team when they don't try this once in a while. Other than a walk or a home run, Dunn is pretty useless right now. Another single here or there would really help him, and more importantly, the team out.

[StrangeSox]

They've found that they're much, much more effective hitters when they tailor their swing to go primarily to one field. Even if that allows the defense to use huge shifts, they're still better off sticking with their normal swing. If they try to "tap" it to the 3rd base side, they're most likely to miss or hit the ball weakly enough that it's still an out.

[SnB]

The sox didn't get Dunn to hit singles. The opponents would gladly give Dunn a single every time he comes up if it meant taking away 100% of his power.

[Balta1701]

The sox didn't get Dunn to hit singles. The opponents would gladly give Dunn a single every time he comes up if it meant taking away 100% of his power.

It's really difficult to imagine a situation where Adam Dunn could come to the plate and I'd want him to do something like "lay down a bunt to the LH Side". Maybe...maybe in a 0-0 game against a LH starter.

 

I mean, you're down by 1...you want Dunn swinging for the fences.

 

Tie game...you want Dunn swinging for the fences to try to generate a 1 run lead.

 

ahead by 1, you want Dunn to add an insurance run.

 

Ahead by 2...maybe you could talk me into it here.

 

Ahead by 3 or more...then theyr'e going to plunk Dunn in the back next time up.

[southsider2k5]

Dunn doesn't even have to bunt the ball the other way. He has tremendous power the other way. Even an occasional swing the other way would make him much more dangerous. If nothing else it could stop teams from shifting against him.

[balfanman]

I realize everything that's been said so far. He doesn't have to hit it hard to the 3rd base side, just enough to get to the infield dirt or so. With nobody there, the chances of him being thrown out are nil.

 

I know that you don't have a Dunn on your team to hit singles, but when a situation comes up with men on base and you just need to "keep the line moving", which happens pretty often, Dunn hits a hard ground ball to the first base side which is an easy out because they have four fielders over there. If you only had 3 fielders over there a few more of those might get through, extending the inning. Heck, this is all that was needed several times in the last week or so. I know we went 5 - 1 on the homestand, but we all know that if it wasn't for Youkilis we would of probably went, at best 2 - 4, and been in a team slump at the All Star break.

 

I can't see a small adjustment like this hurting Dunns' swing. If anything, I think that it would help it, especially his confidence. It's obvious after last season that Dunn is a guy who can be affected tremendously by his confidence level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

I realize everything that's been said so far. He doesn't have to hit it hard to the 3rd base side, just enough to get to the infield dirt or so. With nobody there, the chances of him being thrown out are nil.

 

I know that you don't have a Dunn on your team to hit singles, but when a situation comes up with men on base and you just need to "keep the line moving", which happens pretty often, Dunn hits a hard ground ball to the first base side which is an easy out because they have four fielders over there. If you only had 3 fielders over there a few more of those might get through, extending the inning. Heck, this is all that was needed several times in the last week or so. I know we went 5 - 1 on the homestand, but we all know that if it wasn't for Youkilis we would of probably went, at best 2 - 4, and been in a team slump at the All Star break.

 

I can't see a small adjustment like this hurting Dunns' swing. If anything, I think that it would help it, especially his confidence. It's obvious after last season that Dunn is a guy who can be affected tremendously by his confidence level.

If Adam Dunn comes up with men on base...Adam Dunn should try to hit a home run.

[balfanman]

If Adam Dunn comes up with men on base...Adam Dunn should try to hit a home run.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, He tries every time. But....most of those time he tries to hit the ball hard and it's on the ground, or a line drive to the first base side. A few more of those could be hits, if say, once in a while he goes the other way, particularly when no one is on, or a pitcher that he doesn't see very well.

[hogan873]

I wonder how hard it is to adjust your swing if you're someone like Dunn. I've been thinking the same thing about him just poking a ball into left field. I agree that if he were to do that a couple times, you wouldn't see as dramatic a shift.

[Balta1701]

I agree wholeheartedly, He tries every time. But....most of those time he tries to hit the ball hard and it's on the ground, or a line drive to the first base side. A few more of those could be hits, if say, once in a while he goes the other way, particularly when no one is on, or a pitcher that he doesn't see very well.

And in exchange for a few more of those being hits, a few less could be home runs.

[balfanman]

And in exchange for a few more of those being hits, a few less could be home runs.

 

I agree with that too. But I think that I would trade a solo shot or two, for a better chance at a positive outcome when men are on ahead of him in a crucial, late inning situation.

[balfanman]

I believe that it was David Wells, I know that he was a real POS personally, but was a good pitcher, said that he did not mind giving up solo shots once in a while because those rarely hurt you. It was the hits / home runs with men on that really killed your team.

Edited July 9, 2012 by balfanman

[southsider2k5]

I agree with that too. But I think that I would trade a solo shot or two, for a better chance at a positive outcome when men are on ahead of him in a crucial, late inning situation.

 

Not to mention he still has that Konerko guy coming up behind him.

[Bubba Philips]

Not to mention he still has that Konerko guy coming up behind him.

Anyone's argument about all or nothing hitting by Dunn is absurd. Jees no one is expecting to do it every time but Thome or accidentally on purpose would occasionally slap it to left for a base hit with good results. I'm not sure how well Thome was at controlling it but it was a thing of beauty when he place the ball to left. For the amount of money we pay him he should be able to hit it anyplace he wants to. I don't believe he is that one dimensional.

[Balta1701]

Anyone's argument about all or nothing hitting by Dunn is absurd. Jees no one is expecting to do it every time but Thome or accidentally on purpose would occasionally slap it to left for a base hit with good results. I'm not sure how well Thome was at controlling it but it was a thing of beauty when he place the ball to left. For the amount of money we pay him he should be able to hit it anyplace he wants to. I don't believe he is that one dimensional.

Adam Dunn's hit chart this season. He does occasionally slap it to left for a base hit.

[oldsox]

If Dunn comes to the plate late in game with men on in close game and he hits a double to left, everyone on this board would be singing his praises.

[Wanne]

I find it curious when people employ the shift and then pitch outside...makes no sense IMO.

[southsider2k5]

I find it curious when people employ the shift and then pitch outside...makes no sense IMO.

 

If he isn't going to go the other way, it is a great pitch. Make him miss it, or get around it.

[balfanman]

Anyone's argument about all or nothing hitting by Dunn is absurd. Jees no one is expecting to do it every time but Thome or accidentally on purpose would occasionally slap it to left for a base hit with good results. I'm not sure how well Thome was at controlling it but it was a thing of beauty when he place the ball to left. For the amount of money we pay him he should be able to hit it anyplace he wants to. I don't believe he is that one dimensional.

 

I think the outcome of that was that teams did not employ quite as dramatic of a shift on Thome. I could be "misremembering", but I think that they only placed 3 infielders on the firstbase side of the infield, not 4. If I am also remembering correctly, Thome, beside all of his homeruns, also had several well timed singles in late innings because of this. This is why, even though Thome was slow, I would much rather have him hitting for my team than Dunn. I'm not necessarily a Dunn hater either, I just wish that he would increase the odds of him helping out the team, instead of being almost an easy out late in the game.

[LittleHurt05]

Hasn't Big Papi gone with the bunt towards 3rd base a couple times?

[ScottyDo]

If Adam Dunn comes up with runner(s) on, he should be swinging for the fences. If Adam Dunn comes up with nobody on, a walk is as good as a hit (and probably more likely to occur than a successful bunt from a man who hasn't bunted since little league), so you'd rather just see him take his normal approach. Even the occasional bunt hit won't get them to stop shifting against him.

[balfanman]

If Adam Dunn comes up with runner(s) on, he should be swinging for the fences. If Adam Dunn comes up with nobody on, a walk is as good as a hit (and probably more likely to occur than a successful bunt from a man who hasn't bunted since little league), so you'd rather just see him take his normal approach. Even the occasional bunt hit won't get them to stop shifting against him.

 

At the start, he would probably have to do it a few times to really let it sink in to other teams.

 

If Dunn doesn't want to do this, fine, that's his choice, but I think that makes him much less of a feared hitter late in games. Any pitcher with control seems to make easy work of Dunn with the game on the line.

 

I remember when Thome came up late I really wanted him up there because it just seemed to me that he had the attitude of whatever it takes, even a measley single, to help his team win. With Dunn I get the feeling that it's home run, walk, or oh well, that's what I do. Maybe it's because he is slumping, but Adam Dunn is pretty close to the last guy on the team that I want batting with the game on the line.

[Bubba Philips]

If Adam Dunn comes up with runner(s) on, he should be swinging for the fences. If Adam Dunn comes up with nobody on, a walk is as good as a hit (and probably more likely to occur than a successful bunt from a man who hasn't bunted since little league), so you'd rather just see him take his normal approach. Even the occasional bunt hit won't get them to stop shifting against him.

that is not the point of the discussion is can he purposely try to get a hit going to leftside of the infield once in a while so he could be a little more effective in certain situations. Other lefties have but he can't or can he?

[balfanman]

If Adam Dunn comes up with runner(s) on, he should be swinging for the fences. If Adam Dunn comes up with nobody on, a walk is as good as a hit (and probably more likely to occur than a successful bunt from a man who hasn't bunted since little league), so you'd rather just see him take his normal approach. Even the occasional bunt hit won't get them to stop shifting against him.

 

By the way, I'm not saying bunting in these situations, although that's one way to do it. But you can let up on your swing and go the other way without bunting.

[Bubba Philips]

By the way, I'm not saying bunting in these situations, although that's one way to do it. But you can let up on your swing and go the other way without bunting.

absolutely.