I kinda go back and forth on whether ANY roiders should be in the HOF, but lately I've been leaning more towards letting guys like Bonds and Clemens in, but not guys like Sosa and Palmeiro. My rationale on it is that steroids did not make Bonds and Clemens HOFers, they just made them into the top tier of HOFers. Steroids did take guys like Sosa and Palmeiro who were better than average ballplayers and help them forge HOF careers. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone else or not, don't really care.

I'll give you the same question I've given other people. How do you know when they started juicing?

 

Mark McGwire was quite thin in the 1980's, and yet he had Canseco injecting him with all sorts of ass-shots to turn him into a 40 HR hitter. Until he tested positive, people kept believing Palmeiro, because his body hadn't exploded like tetrahydrogestrinone did, and then he tested positive for a steroid that helps but doesn't explode your head like THG.

 

Why do they get a presumption of innocence for what they were doing in the 1980s, particularly when it's all but proven that they were cheating in the 90's?

Officially no one made.

can I ask why folks aren't voting Piazza in the other thread? I know he's not going to make it, but it's a travesty for the best catcher in the history of the game not to be a 1st ballot

HOF

Supposedly his back was covered in zits well after puberty. I would vote for Bonds because I think he was a HOFer before he juiced. I think Piazza was juicing most of his career.

 

I wonder if some of these guys will ever get in or are some voters just making them wait. I never understood that rationale. Either you think they are worthy or they are not. I don't know why being a first ballot is reserved for a certain player by some, and some think guys become worthy after being on the ballot for X number of years.

 

Here is probably big reason why Piazza will never make it, supposedly he admitted it.

 

http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2009/03/...llegations.html

Edited January 9, 201313 yr by Dick Allen

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick

 

Craig Biggio leads the way with 68 percent of the vote. It's going to be a slow weekend in Cooperstown.

I'll give you the same question I've given other people. How do you know when they started juicing?

 

Mark McGwire was quite thin in the 1980's, and yet he had Canseco injecting him with all sorts of ass-shots to turn him into a 40 HR hitter. Until he tested positive, people kept believing Palmeiro, because his body hadn't exploded like tetrahydrogestrinone did, and then he tested positive for a steroid that helps but doesn't explode your head like THG.

 

Why do they get a presumption of innocence for what they were doing in the 1980s, particularly when it's all but proven that they were cheating in the 90's?

 

Your're right, there is no way to know for sure. Some guys its pretty easy to make an educated guess. A guy like Sosa who goes from 30-35 to all of the sudden hitting 60 while his body ballooned in proportion to his home run totals rising is easy to figure out. Same with Clemens. His career was over in the late 90's, then all of the sudden his head explodes and he's back to winning Cy Youngs.

MLB ‏@MLB

 

BREAKING: @officialBBWAA elects no one to @BaseballHall for first time since 1996. #HOF

Your're right, there is no way to know for sure. Some guys its pretty easy to make an educated guess. A guy like Sosa who goes from 30-35 to all of the sudden hitting 60 while his body ballooned in proportion to his home run totals rising is easy to figure out. Same with Clemens. His career was over in the late 90's, then all of the sudden his head explodes and he's back to winning Cy Youngs.

Just remember this...those body changes could have been caused by switching steroids just as easily as they could have been by starting steroids.

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-release...me-vote-shutout

 

Ballots Cast: 569 Needed for Election: 427

VOTES PLAYER PERCENTAGE

388 Craig Biggio 68.20%

385 Jack Morris 67.70%

339 Jeff Bagwell 59.60%

329 Mike Piazza 57.80%

297 Tim Raines 52.20%

272 Lee Smith 47.80%

221 Curt Schilling 38.80%

214 Roger Clemens 37.60%

206 Barry Bonds 36.20%

204 Edgar Martinez 35.90%

191 Alan Trammell 33.60%

123 Larry Walker 21.60%

118 Fred McGriff 20.70%

106 Dale Murphy 18.60%

96 Mark McGwire 16.90%

75 Don Mattingly 13.20%

71 Sammy Sosa 12.50%

50 Rafael Palmeiro 8.80%

19 Bernie Williams 3.30%

18 Kenny Lofton 3.20%

16 Sandy Alomar Jr. 2.80%

6 Julio Franco 1.10%

5 David Wells 0.90%

4 Steve Finley 0.70%

2 Shawn Green 0.40%

1 Aaron Sele 0.20%

0 Jeff Cirillo 0.00%

0 Royce Clayton 0.00%

0 Jeff Conine 0.00%

0 Roberto Hernandez 0.00%

0 Ryan Klesko 0.00%

0 Jose Mesa 0.00%

0 Reggie Sanders 0.00%

0 Mike Stanton 0.00%

0 Todd Walker 0.00%

0 Rondell White 0.00%

0 Woody Williams 0.00%

Biggio a virtual lock to get in before too long, possibly next year. Looking good for Bagwell and Piazza as well.

Clemens got more votes than Bonds?

@ESPNChiCubs

With Bonds and Clemens getting over 30% and Sosa only 12.5% speaks to thier careers before PED's became popular

that's simply a pathetic travesty.

Interesting Kenny Lofton is off the ballot. I think with some hindsight, he could be viewed more favorably.

Supposedly his back was covered in zits well after puberty. I would vote for Bonds because I think he was a HOFer before he juiced. I think Piazza was juicing most of his career.

 

I wonder if some of these guys will ever get in or are some voters just making them wait. I never understood that rationale. Either you think they are worthy or they are not. I don't know why being a first ballot is reserved for a certain player by some, and some think guys become worthy after being on the ballot for X number of years.

 

 

guess what? I'm 26 and i still get zits from time to time. what a RIDICULOUS basis for not voting someone into the hall of fame.

guess what? I'm 26 and i still get zits from time to time. what a RIDICULOUS basis for not voting someone into the hall of fame.

Read this

http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2009/03/...llegations.html

that's simply a pathetic travesty.

 

I don't know why I get so worked up about the HOF, condsidering how dumb & arrogant the writers are about the process. The fact that some refuse to vote for Ripken, Gwynn, Ryan etc., because of the whole "first ballot" thing shows what a joke the voters are.

Interesting Kenny Lofton is off the ballot. I think with some hindsight, he could be viewed more favorably.

 

I wouldn't have called him a HOFer, but I do think he earned more consideration than he got.

guess what? I'm 26 and i still get zits from time to time. what a RIDICULOUS basis for not voting someone into the hall of fame.

There is a huge difference between someone getting a few "zits" and what an acne ravage back can look like from PEDs.

Next year Glavine, Maddux and Thomas are eligible. Gotta think Biggio goes in too with them and that's the four, right?

 

Cooperstown is an easy drive up for me, but I have a buddy living there for another couple years so it'd make staying for Thomas even easier.

Also, Aaron Sele got a HoF vote lol

I am officially nominating Clint Eastwood to speak to the 2013 Baseball Hall of Fame inductees. #emptychair

Next year Glavine, Maddux and Thomas are eligible. Gotta think Biggio goes in too with them and that's the four, right?

 

Cooperstown is an easy drive up for me, but I have a buddy living there for another couple years so it'd make staying for Thomas even easier.

 

If the voters decide to reward Morris in his last year like they did Blyleven than there could be five. Or they could decide to give Frank the shaft.

Again it's a matter of where the crime is on the spectrum. Would someone get the same sentence for "greenies" as for cocaine? Almost all MLB players used greenies up until 5 years ago. That doesn't mean that it is the same offense that steriods are. One helps you to fight off fatigue, keeps you alert and helps you focus so you can perform at your best level. The other actually improves what your best level is.

Now they get scripts for ADHD medication instead!

Now they get scripts for ADHD medication instead!

That is a popular one as well. The only problem with that one is that sometimes the drug will make them to hyper and you can't concentrate. It is a trial and error one.

That is a popular one as well. The only problem with that one is that sometimes the drug will make them to hyper and you can't concentrate.

That's why people who work in orange juice factories can't have them.