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The Wussification of America

YASNY

By YASNY,
in The Filibuster

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BigSqwert Grand Master

BigSqwert

Posted
Posted
QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 6, 2013 -> 11:19 AM)
How is being something God made you a sin and how is one forgiven for it considering it’s not something one can change?

 

*points to some vague metaphor in the bible which addresses your concerns*

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Iwritecode Grand Master

Iwritecode

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QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Feb 6, 2013 -> 01:31 PM)
The stock answer would be that being homosexual is not a sin, but engaging in homosexual acts is.

 

That's exactly what somebody else told me a few days ago. I don't see how you separate the two things.

 

Isn't the very definition of being a homosexual engaging in homosexual acts? Can you really consider yourself to be a homosexual if you only engage in heterosexual acts?

 

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Steve9347 Grand Master

Steve9347

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 6, 2013 -> 01:52 PM)
That's exactly what somebody else told me a few days ago. I don't see how you separate the two things.

 

Isn't the very definition of being a homosexual engaging in homosexual acts? Can you really consider yourself to be a homosexual if you only engage in heterosexual acts?

If you think about Carl Weathers while you bang a woman, is that homosexual?

 

89845-memes-trollface.png

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CrimsonWeltall Grand Master

CrimsonWeltall

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 6, 2013 -> 07:52 PM)
That's exactly what somebody else told me a few days ago. I don't see how you separate the two things.

 

Isn't the very definition of being a homosexual engaging in homosexual acts? Can you really consider yourself to be a homosexual if you only engage in heterosexual acts?

 

I'd consider the definition to be related to attraction. A gay guy is still gay even if he's totally celibate.

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StrangeSox Grand Master

StrangeSox

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 6, 2013 -> 01:52 PM)
That's exactly what somebody else told me a few days ago. I don't see how you separate the two things.

 

Isn't the very definition of being a homosexual engaging in homosexual acts? Can you really consider yourself to be a homosexual if you only engage in heterosexual acts?

You can be gay but abstinent.

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StrangeSox Grand Master

StrangeSox

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 6, 2013 -> 02:19 PM)
Id have to see some textual support to really suggest that thoughts and actions are the same. My general recollection of the Old Testament is that God was worried about actions, not thought crime.

Coveting your neighbor's smokin' ass was a sin, no?

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The Sir Grand Master

The Sir

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I don't believe God made anyone gay. Feel free to point to any study showing otherwise. I think it goes back to the old nature vs. nurture argument. And with the exception of what you physically look like, I think "nurture" determines everything. Was I predisposed to like women? I don't think so. I think my upbringing made me that way. Was I predisposed to conservatism and religion? Nope. My experiences in life made me think this way. So this will probably be a controversial statement, but it is what it is.

 

And why should I not be allowed to think it? I'm not legislating this on anyone. These are my personal thoughts. And that's really why I don't want to legislate my religion on people. I already told you that God gave us free will. If He did that, who am I to take that away from people? God gave you the power to be gay, or to be promiscuous, or to be blasphemous. He also gave you the right to be greedy and hoard your money, even though His Son tells the rich man to give up his possessions and follow Him. Christ didn't make the rich man do that, because in Christianity, you have free will.

 

Additionally, God tells us that we are forgiven if we sincerely repent and believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins. We could legislate these beliefs and make the government turn its guns and its power on the non-believers, as they do in so much of the Muslim world, and maybe some of you, fearing for your lives, would "become" Christians. But would you really be? It was no decision that you made from your heart, as God asks you to. You were doing it because you feared the consequences from other men if you refused. So not only would we be violating God's concept of free will but we wouldn't be truly saving anyone either.

 

Some of you are disagreeing with me in a civil manner. I appreciate that, and I enjoy the discussion. But to the people who want to come in here and make snarky comments about how Christians behave hypocritically, remind yourself that tolerance is a two way street. You know who you are. I don't particularly care if you mock my faith. My approval comes not from you nor from any other human, but from God and God alone. You will stand before St. Peter to answer for your deeds just as I will. That's not a condemnation, mind you, as I don't know what he will say on that day. It's simply the reason why your bigotry means very little to me. I do not answer to you.

 

If you do not want to have actual discussions but merely state your prejudices in a snide manner, that's fine. Just ask yourself how you would respond if I came in here stating that gays are malicious and promiscuous or that Obama voters are uninformed college idiots. You'd be up in arms. Yet, for some reason, you have no qualms about spewing the same overarching crap about Christians. You don't realize it but you are the very reason that conservatives love to joke that liberals are only tolerant of things they agree with.

 

These last two paragraphs are aimed at one guy. Most of you need not even consider it. But to that one person, you are as much a bigot as the people you constantly rail against.

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GoodAsGould Grand Master

GoodAsGould

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You say you are open to discussion but come across as ultimately being the complete opposite in that post. Pretty much what everyone else says doesn't matter to you because they aren't god or Jesus is what I got from all that. Which is fine if true just I find it bad practice to be so deadset on the way things are according to oneself.

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The Sir Grand Master

The Sir

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Posted
QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Feb 7, 2013 -> 01:55 AM)
You say you are open to discussion but come across as ultimately being the complete opposite in that post. Pretty much what everyone else says doesn't matter to you because they aren't god or Jesus is what I got from all that. Which is fine if true just I find it bad practice to be so deadset on the way things are according to oneself.

 

I told a person who is preaching his bigotry and his overreaching prejudices that I don't care about his tripe because only God can judge me. Maybe that person thinks I'm a hypocrite. I don't know and I don't care. The only one who can validate me as a person and truly determine what I am and am not is God. And yeah, anyone who wants to spread hateful biases against my faith will get the same reception from me.

 

But if there's anyone who wants to discuss Christian thought with me and not simply pass judgments on me as a person, I'm game. If you didn't gather that from my posts, I don't know what to tell you. I guess there isn't any decent discussion to be had with you.

 

Think about it this way. Imagine a person came along and posted, "Gays are gross because they like dudes and they're all going to hell!". Would you give that person any rational discussion? No. It's pointless. That person's an idiot and a bigot. Why would you waste your time with him? But if he posted, "I'm fine with gay marriage as long as it doesn't infringe on an individual's freedom of religion", well, you can disagree with that, but it's not necessarily bigotry and it is more deserving of rational conversation.

 

That's what happened here. If you want to discuss my stated beliefs that it is sort of goofy to legislate religion on people or that people aren't born gay, I'd be interested. But if you want to mockingly say, "Christians only listen to the Bible when it supports their beliefs!", then I'm going to happily remind you that that isn't your call to make.

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The Sir Grand Master

The Sir

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Posted
QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Feb 7, 2013 -> 07:28 AM)
I don't believe god exists. Feel free to point to any study showing otherwise.

 

That's your right and I don't have any problem with that at all.

 

However, it's not your right to spread insulting generalizations about Christian people. If you disagree, please explain why you would surely freak out if someone came on here and made a snarky comment such as, "homosexual promiscuity caused the AIDS epidemic!"

 

Or maybe you'll surprise me and tell me you wouldn't oppose that sentiment either. The ball's in your court.

 

 

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Jake Grand Master

Jake

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Posted
QUOTE (God Loves The Infantry @ Feb 7, 2013 -> 01:25 AM)
I don't believe God made anyone gay. Feel free to point to any study showing otherwise. I think it goes back to the old nature vs. nurture argument. And with the exception of what you physically look like, I think "nurture" determines everything. Was I predisposed to like women? I don't think so. I think my upbringing made me that way. Was I predisposed to conservatism and religion? Nope. My experiences in life made me think this way. So this will probably be a controversial statement, but it is what it is.

 

And why should I not be allowed to think it? I'm not legislating this on anyone. These are my personal thoughts. And that's really why I don't want to legislate my religion on people. I already told you that God gave us free will. If He did that, who am I to take that away from people? God gave you the power to be gay, or to be promiscuous, or to be blasphemous. He also gave you the right to be greedy and hoard your money, even though His Son tells the rich man to give up his possessions and follow Him. Christ didn't make the rich man do that, because in Christianity, you have free will.

 

On the note of homosexuality as a natural phenomenon, more or less all animal species engage in some degree of same-sex sexual behavior. There is little that is universally agreed on in the field at the moment, due to the fact that there are multiple factors. The first thing to understand is there is more than just being "straight" or "gay." Not only is sexual orientation spectral, it is fluid. Women exhibit fluidity more than men, but nonetheless human sexuality can change across a lifetime from a variety of factors. Beyond that, there are several key determining factors. First of all, there is more and more research showing genetic predisposition. Research into the "gay gene" and other related genetic factors seems to explain as much as half the cause for a person being gay. Other factors including the gestation and birth process can have a profound effect as well as life events. Trauma, birth order, natural personality variation can all lead to higher or lower likelihood of sexuality. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

 

An interesting trend noted in a study:

Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10410197 :D

 

Additionally, God tells us that we are forgiven if we sincerely repent and believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins. We could legislate these beliefs and make the government turn its guns and its power on the non-believers, as they do in so much of the Muslim world, and maybe some of you, fearing for your lives, would "become" Christians. But would you really be? It was no decision that you made from your heart, as God asks you to. You were doing it because you feared the consequences from other men if you refused. So not only would we be violating God's concept of free will but we wouldn't be truly saving anyone either.

 

This was a huge revelation in Christian and political philosophy. If you don't have choices, then you've made no choices. You have to have agency in the selection of your beliefs or else they can hardly be sincere.

 

This is why the USA is the most religious country in the Western world (hard to measure in the Middle East). People came here and were free to choose any of several thriving denominations or even nothing at all. A long tradition of relative religious freedom has resulted in a multi-denominational, very religious society. There are certainly fewer believers than in a state instituted religious society or one that has too recently allowed religious freedom (look at Spain, where the counterreaction to the end of their Catholic dictatorship has resulted in a huge loss of religious persons), but those that believe in the USA are far more sincere about it. They don't just go to church, but they often actually put effort and lifestyle changes forth to live their religion correctly.

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mr_genius Grand Master

mr_genius

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Feb 7, 2013 -> 08:28 AM)
I don't believe god exists. Feel free to point to any study showing otherwise.

 

I'm sure there are some. Duke university has years of studies that show smoking cigarettes are good for your health.

 

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