The point there would be that Alexei could presumably continue to have that power stroke if he was hitting 7th, and there were some unique requirements of hitting in the 2 slot that were causing him to adjust his stroke.

 

Right, I understand. What I'm saying is that even Alexei + power isn't good enough to bat in the middle of the order for a contender. He simply doesn't get on base enough. If he can hit 15 homers again, he's still only going to be about a 90 wRC+ because he makes too many outs (I'm basing this on what his batting lines were when he was hitting 15 homers a few years ago, since his OBPs have been remarkably consistent). A .270-.280 average is good an all, but it looks way worse next to a .300 OBP.

 

But, maybe you're saying that putting him at #7 or whatever will still allow him to hit for more power and that it was the #2 hurting him more than the #3 spot helping him. That would make sense, but didn't he hit at the back of the order most of the first half of the season during his epic power outage?

Edited September 4, 201312 yr by Eminor3rd

Right, I understand. What I'm saying is that even Alexei + power isn't good enough to bat in the middle of the order for a contender. He simply doesn't get on base enough. If he can hit 15 homers again, he's still only going to be about a 90 wRC+ because he makes too many outs (I'm basing this on what his batting lines were when he was hitting 15 homers a few years ago, since his OBPs have been remarkably consistent). A .270-.280 average is good an all, but it looks way worse next to a .300 OBP.

 

But, maybe you're saying that putting him at #7 or whatever will still allow him to hit for more power and that it was the #2 hurting him more than the #3 spot helping him. That would make sense, but didn't he hit at the back of the order most of the first half of the season during his epic power outage?

He had about 30 games hitting 6-7-8 and had an OPS of about .690 in those 3 slots. He hit 75 games in the 2 hole with a .660 OPS but a similar batting average, so he was clearly putting the ball in play just about as much but he wasn't hitting for extra bases as much. It's hard to extract a true trend from the 100 at bats lower in the order, but the 0 HR in 335 PA's in the 2 hole compared with 4 HR in 250 PA's elsewhere in the lineup I think makes a pretty strong case.

He had about 30 games hitting 6-7-8 and had an OPS of about .690 in those 3 slots. He hit 75 games in the 2 hole with a .660 OPS but a similar batting average, so he was clearly putting the ball in play just about as much but he wasn't hitting for extra bases as much. It's hard to extract a true trend from the 100 at bats lower in the order, but the 0 HR in 335 PA's in the 2 hole compared with 4 HR in 250 PA's elsewhere in the lineup I think makes a pretty strong case.

 

I agree with all of that too. I just still think that 4 HR/250 PA's combined with a .300ish OBP is still a defense first player. I think the team can get 80-85% of that production with similarly glovey/speedy Garcia, and by moving Ramirez/pitcher, can take step at finding the higher upside bat it really needs to get back to contention. Getting Garcia regular at bats also gives him a better chance to improve more quickly.

I agree with all of that too. I just still think that 4 HR/250 PA's combined with a .300ish OBP is still a defense first player. I think the team can get 80-85% of that production with similarly glovey/speedy Garcia, and by moving Ramirez/pitcher, can take step at finding the higher upside bat it really needs to get back to contention. Getting Garcia regular at bats also gives him a better chance to improve more quickly.

Like I said I have no problem moving Alexei if the right deal comes along (personally I'd give Semien first shot at the SS spot) but I'm not going to take a poor deal for him until one of the young guys plays so well that I'm forced to move Alexei for them.

Like I said I have no problem moving Alexei if the right deal comes along (personally I'd give Semien first shot at the SS spot) but I'm not going to take a poor deal for him until one of the young guys plays so well that I'm forced to move Alexei for them.

 

Agreed.

 

We did it! We have reached consensus after a series of about 10 posts! How many times does that happen on this board?

Rick & co are not gonna punt the 2014 season.

 

This is based on a couple whispers about potential targets if they can't land Abreu.

 

Here is what I'd like to see:

 

Rotation: Sale, Danks, Josh Johnson (FA), Santiago, Erik Johnson

Bullpen: Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Petricka, Leesman, Marinez

 

LF: De Aza

2B: Beckham

RF: Hunter Pence (FA) 3/$39

C: Brian McCann (FA) 4/$60

1B: Viciedo

DH: Dunn

CF: A. Garcia

3B: Brett Lawrie (Quintana trade)

SS: Semien

 

UT: Gillaspie

IF: Keppinger

OF: Danks

C: Phegley

Edited September 6, 201312 yr by bucket-of-suck

Pretty bold stuff. Where does Alexei disappear to?

Pretty bold stuff. Where does Alexei disappear to?

 

He's top 10 in AL hits as a SS. Somebody will take him in an offseason deal.

Rick & co are not gonna punt the 2014 season.

 

This is based on a couple whispers about potential targets if they can't land Abreu.

 

Here is what I'd like to see:

 

Rotation: Sale, Danks, Josh Johnson (FA), Santiago, Erik Johnson

Bullpen: Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Petricka, Leesman, Marinez

 

LF: De Aza

2B: Beckham

RF: Hunter Pence (FA) 3/$39

C: Brian McCann (FA) 4/$60

1B: Viciedo

DH: Dunn

CF: A. Garcia

3B: Brett Lawrie (Quintana trade)

SS: Semien

 

UT: Gillaspie

IF: Keppinger

OF: Danks

C: Phegley

 

Who's the backup at shortstop? Beckham? Keppinger?

Who's the backup at shortstop? Beckham? Keppinger?

Leury?

Rick & co are not gonna punt the 2014 season.

 

This is based on a couple whispers about potential targets if they can't land Abreu.

 

Here is what I'd like to see:

 

Rotation: Sale, Danks, Josh Johnson (FA), Santiago, Erik Johnson

Bullpen: Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Petricka, Leesman, Marinez

 

LF: De Aza

2B: Beckham

RF: Hunter Pence (FA) 3/$39

C: Brian McCann (FA) 4/$60

1B: Viciedo

DH: Dunn

CF: A. Garcia

3B: Brett Lawrie (Quintana trade)

SS: Semien

 

UT: Gillaspie

IF: Keppinger

OF: Danks

C: Phegley

I don't know about Pence, but I think McCann is going to get a lot more than 4/$60.

Leury?

 

bucket doesn't have him on his roster, though.

What about this is based off of whispers?

McCann & Pence are both on the "big board" for impact offseason targets.

I don't know about Pence, but I think McCann is going to get a lot more than 4/$60.

Yadi money? More? 5/$80?

If Pence is actually a target, Garcia needs to play every last game in CF.

 

 

But yeah, I totally see us going all in on McCann.

Leury?

Imo, Keppinger is utility backup. Luery needs a hit tool.

Rick & co are not gonna punt the 2014 season.

 

This is based on a couple whispers about potential targets if they can't land Abreu.

 

Here is what I'd like to see:

 

Rotation: Sale, Danks, Josh Johnson (FA), Santiago, Erik Johnson

Bullpen: Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Petricka, Leesman, Marinez

 

LF: De Aza

2B: Beckham

RF: Hunter Pence (FA) 3/$39

C: Brian McCann (FA) 4/$60

1B: Viciedo

DH: Dunn

CF: A. Garcia

3B: Brett Lawrie (Quintana trade)

SS: Semien

 

UT: Gillaspie

IF: Keppinger

OF: Danks

C: Phegley

We're getting rid of Quintana and Alexei and only Lawrie is coming back to the major league roster? That would be pretty awful.

Edited September 6, 201312 yr by Rowand44

If Pence is actually a target, Garcia needs to play every last game in CF.

 

 

But yeah, I totally see us going all in on McCann.

Agreed on both.

I read an article that said expect McCann to get between 60 and 70 million. Teams don't see him as a catcher past two years.

We're getting rid of Quintana and Alexei and only Lawrie is coming back to the major league roster? That would be pretty awful.

Lawrie for Q is a reasonable deal with high upside at a premium position right now. There isnt much market for Alexei. He would be off-loading $ for the FAs.

Pence is actually who A Garcia is really reminding me of, which doesn't make me particularly happy.

Edited September 6, 201312 yr by iamshack

Ewwww Hunter Pence?

The more I see Gillaspie, the more I think he will be lucky if he's collecting a major league paycheck next year. His bat and glove have really taken steps backwards.

I read an article that said expect McCann to get between 60 and 70 million. Teams don't see him as a catcher past two years.

Funny, that's the same timeframe Roland Hemond gave JR about Carlton Fisk's catching career when they signed him.

That said, I don't expect the Sox to sign McCann. I think they will sign free agents, but not the top tier guys.

Ewwww Hunter Pence?

 

I'd actually love me some Hunter Pence. Sox need a guy to liven up the dugout/clubhouse, and sans his time in SF last year he's been a solid hitter throughout his career.