The Sox had no problems scoring runs this series.

I think it's the Phegley Ephect.

I'm glad we have someone who posts here who is privy with how all of the Sox FO meetings go. Sweet.

That's not my point at all. Why would you say that?

 

Acting like Chris Sale's pitch count is up to RV is insane.

Good man, Conor!

I think it's the Phegley Ephect.

 

 

Meh.

 

Failing to get the run in.

Tidy 1-2-3 for Matty.

 

Avisail Garcia for Matt Detroit what ya say?

 

....or you can keep trotting Coke out there.

I understand people don't care if Detroit wins the WS if the Sox are out of it, but maybe they should. Winning a WS or advancing deeply in the playoffs means increased revenue. I read yesterday that the Ilitch gravy train is starting to dry up. Money is starting to become a factor.

Edited July 11, 201312 yr by Dick Allen

That's not my point at all. Why would you say that?

 

Acting like Chris Sale's pitch count is up to RV is insane.

 

Acting like the manager isn't the one who decides when pitchers come out and go into the game is idiotic

Nait it down Addison.

Acting like the manager isn't the one who decides when pitchers come out and go into the game is idiotic

If there was a mandate not to have Sale throw a certain number of pitches, he wouldn't throw a certain number of pitches. I think it varies from start to start as he has some off time coming up now. The difference between 114 and 124 is really nothing.

Hawk is now getting delusional. Hawk "If we could win this and have a good series it can change the thought process with the coaching staff and the 25 players"

 

 

Whats the thought process to finally solidify 4th place.

 

 

I hate when Addison nibbles.

Acting like the manager isn't the one who decides when pitchers come out and go into the game is idiotic

Again, everyone knows that man.

 

You're really gonna sit there and tell us all that the White Sox as an organization haven't spent time deciding how to best use their only superstar? You're gonna continue to get mad at RV for pitch counts and cite some Busch-league dusty baker opinion as evidence?

 

If you don't think it's a collective strategy then what the hell do we even have a FO for?

 

Go ahead and get mad at the FO but don't point it all at RV like he has the all the keys to the car.

OVAH!!!

OVAH!!!

 

 

Ha! Get that right into you, you manky, toys-throwing-out-of-the-pram, whinging mothaF@ck@s!!!

Hawk please stop!

Again, everyone knows that man.

 

You're really gonna sit there and tell us all that the White Sox as an organization haven't spent time deciding how to best use their only superstar? You're gonna continue to get mad at RV for pitch counts and cite some Busch-league dusty baker opinion as evidence?

 

If you don't think it's a collective strategy then what the hell do we even have a FO for?

 

Go ahead and get mad at the FO but don't point it all at RV like he has the all the keys to the car.

 

LOL. Not sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth or change around the argument or what I said.

 

What's the purpose of managers then if they do not have the ability or power to make their own decisions in the game. You're line of reasoning is off.

 

But coming from a guy who thinks Marcus Semien and Micah Johnson are "Mike Trout and Mike Trout-Lite", I guess that follows a pattern.

LOL. Not sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth or change around the argument or what I said.

 

What's the purpose of managers then if they do not have the ability or power to make their own decisions in the game. You're line of reasoning is off.

 

But coming from a guy who thinks Marcus Semien and Micah Johnson are "Mike Trout and Mike Trout-Lite", I guess that follows a pattern.

 

If the FO thinks RV is overusing Sale, they will tell RV to stop overusing Sale. RV works for the FO. His actions are the responsibility of his managers. If RV continues to overuse Sale, it isn't a stretch at all to assume that the FO has not given the directive to rein it in. Overwise, the only explanation is that RV is openly defying them, which is the type of behavior that usually leads to people being fired.

If there was a mandate not to have Sale throw a certain number of pitches, he wouldn't throw a certain number of pitches. I think it varies from start to start as he has some off time coming up now. The difference between 114 and 124 is really nothing.

Says who? Is 134 no different than 124 because it's only 10 pitches? 144 to 134?

Says who? Is 134 no different than 124 because it's only 10 pitches? 144 to 134?

 

 

Cue Harrelson.

 

"You know Stone Pony, Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal, Whitey Ford, Newcombe, Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan never had pitch counts and they also never went on the DL. They were members of 4 man rotations and each had an additional 8 starts per season."

If the FO thinks RV is overusing Sale, they will tell RV to stop overusing Sale. RV works for the FO. His actions are the responsibility of his managers. If RV continues to overuse Sale, it isn't a stretch at all to assume that the FO has not given the directive to rein it in. Overwise, the only explanation is that RV is openly defying them, which is the type of behavior that usually leads to people being fired.

 

Come on. Are you trying to suggest managers aren't ultimately responsible for anything? My Lord, I was the first guy to start ranting here about how awful Guillen was around 2007-ish and EVERYONE was trying to make ME sound like the idiot and that Ozzie was just find (and many people, as people usually do, deflected and said "Well name someone better we could get!" rather than admit that he was horrible). What happened soon after? That's right, maybe 2 or 3 people (which include greg of all people) are the only ones who still think he was even remotely good. Ventura is awful and actually makes me miss Ozzie in certain regards overall. And for someone (although it wasn't you) to suggest a manager has no responsibility to monitor and act accordingly to high pitch counts is absurd. I don't know about being defiant, but who knows that the FO is saying to RV, if anything.

Edited July 11, 201312 yr by TheBigHurtIsBack

Come on. Are you trying to suggest managers aren't ultimately responsible for anything? My Lord, I was the first guy to start ranting here about how awful Guillen was around 2007-ish and EVERYONE was trying to make ME sound like the idiot and that Ozzie was just find (and many people, as people usually do, deflected and said "Well name someone better we could get!" rather than admit that he was horrible). What happened soon after? That's right, maybe 2 or 3 people (which include greg of all people) are the only ones who still think he was even remotely good. Ventura is awful and actually makes me miss Ozzie in certain regards overall. And for someone (although it wasn't you) to suggest a manager has no responsibility to monitor and act accordingly to high pitch counts is absurd. I don't know about being defiant, but who knows that the FO is saying to RV, if anything.

 

Lol, what? No, I'm not trying to suggest that. I'm just saying that RV works for the FO. So if the FO has a problem with what he's doing, they can tell him to stop. So, most likely, they don't have a problem with it. Less likely, they do have a problem with it, have told RV to stop, and he has refused. Because most of the time, people do what their bosses tell them to do. When they don't there tends to be very obvious friction and controversy and someone gets fired/traded -- like Ozzie.

Lol, what? No, I'm not trying to suggest that. I'm just saying that RV works for the FO. So if the FO has a problem with what he's doing, they can tell him to stop. So, most likely, they don't have a problem with it. Less likely, they do have a problem with it, have told RV to stop, and he has refused. Because most of the time, people do what their bosses tell them to do. When they don't there tends to be very obvious friction and controversy and someone gets fired/traded -- like Ozzie.

 

Lol totally. I feel like we're in a crazy house man! Why the hell is this not the consensus opinion? This shouldn't even be debatable.

 

 

Says who? Is 134 no different than 124 because it's only 10 pitches? 144 to 134?

Sale is fine going 110-115. 124 isn't much more than that. Maybe 2 or 3 batters and the all star break is coming up so he gets a longer rest. Its not a big deal. If you were driving 35 mph in a 25 zone you probably wouldn't expect a ticket. 45 or 55 and you know you are doomed.

 

I would like to know who came up with 120 as the pitch count which causes problems? And where is the study proving it? Guys on tight pitch counts seem to get injured just as much as those who are not. If they made it 125 no one would have a gripe.

 

Another interesting thing is Ventura is constantly ripped here and Joe Maddon is the gold standard. Has anyone ever checked out the pitch counts of David Price and when he had him, James Sheilds? Always hovering around 120.

Edited July 11, 201312 yr by Dick Allen

I think people are missing the most obvious thing about the pitchers, it is Don Coopers world, not Venturas. It was the same with Guillen.

I think people are missing the most obvious thing about the pitchers, it is Don Coopers world, not Venturas. It was the same with Guillen.

 

Yes. It's definitely a collective strategy. Everyboy is definitely on the exact same page, and it ain't Ventura's page. If the upper brass wants some changes then they will instruct RV and staff to make said changes. The idea that RV is a rebelling reckloose openly defying management's wishes regarding Sale's pitch count is crazy.