GreenSox Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 01:42 PM) lol If that actually happened it would make DeAza an elite offensive contributor to a ballclub especially when comparing what his defense in LF would be to the average LFer. So then you would want to keep him, not dump him off for players who would be unlikely to ever match that production. No This would be the time to trade him realizing that it's a complete and utter fluke, and the odds of him matching that production ever again are ridiculously small. Giving way Viciedo at that time would just compound the problem. This is exactly what the Sox should be trying to achieve this year with Dunn, Keppinger and De Aza and Ramirez. Dress them up, hope they get hot, and then dump them. Sell high, not low. Edited February 13, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:22 PM) No This would be the time to trade him realizing that it's a complete and utter fluke, and the odds of him matching that production ever again are ridiculously small. Giving way Viciedo at that time would just compound the problem. This is exactly what the Sox should be trying to achieve this year with Dunn, Keppinger and De Aza and Ramirez. Dress them up, hope they get hot, and then dump them. Sell high, not low. It's not happening anyway. DeAza isn't the type of player to hit .300 and go 25-25. If he was that kind of player then you'd keep him, not trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:07 PM) Dunn and De Aza are both problems. DeAza has been a 2.0, 2.9, 1.7 oWAR player the last 3 years and his defense outside of last season has at least been passable. He's only making a little over $4M and is under control for 2 years, and is a lefty bat. He actually has *trade value* which is a good thing, not a bad thing. The Sox actually chose to tender him a contract when they didn't have to, and could get out of his contract in a heartbeat if they wanted to and still pick up a prospect, even if it's not an exciting one. And none of that is true for Dunn. Edited February 13, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:30 PM) DeAza has been a 2.0, 2.9, 1.7 oWAR player the last 3 years and his defense outside of last season has at least been passable. He's only making a little over $4M and is under control for 2 years, and is a lefty bat. He actually has *trade value* which is a good thing, not a bad thing. The Sox actually chose to tender him a contract when they didn't have to, and could get out of his contract in a heartbeat if they wanted to and still pick up a prospect, even if it's not an exciting one. And none of that is true for Dunn. De Aza is one of the worst baserunners I've ever seen and his defense is absolutely atrocious. You're telling me those aren't problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:37 PM) De Aza is one of the worst baserunners I've ever seen and his defense is absolutely atrocious. You're telling me those aren't problems? Wait, are we trying to win next year? No, they're not problems because 1) they should diminish this year, and 2) he has positive trade value which if given the proper amount of playing time could climb into the realm of a halfway decent return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) Dunn is the problem not De Aza. Adam Dunn with the White Sox: .197/.317/.405/.722 Alejandro DeAza with the White Sox: .279/.343/.420/.763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 08:49 PM) Adam Dunn with the White Sox: .197/.317/.405/.722 Alejandro DeAza with the White Sox: .279/.343/.420/.763 To be equally fair to what they're likely to produce next year we should count a full season against De Aza for the year he destroyed his leg. It's just about as relevant as what you just posted to what they'll do next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:52 PM) To be equally fair to what they're likely to produce next year we should count a full season against De Aza for the year he destroyed his leg. It's just about as relevant as what you just posted to what they'll do next year. Yeah let's just go ahead and pretend 2011 never happened & also pretend that DeAza has been anywhere near as bad as Dunn has been. BTW you factor out Dunn's 2011 completely and guess what? Dunn 2012-13: .211/.326/.455/.781 as a DH DeAza with the Sox: .279/.343/.420/.763 as an OF with 60 SB in that span DeAza's far superior even if you hack off what was at the time the single worst season in MLB history, which is completely unfair to discount especially with an all-or-nothing power hitter going into his age 34 season with a slow enough bat already. Dunn could very easily have a similar season next year. If he declines any more than he already has he won't take the field for anyone in 2015. Edited February 13, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Also I should point out that Ervin Santana on a 3-year deal during the age of 31-33 somehow is too old whereas 34-year-old Dunn needs to play so we can maybe save a few pennies. Ha. At least pick one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) Also I should point out that Ervin Santana on a 3-year deal during the age of 31-33 somehow is too old whereas 34-year-old Dunn needs to play so we can maybe save a few pennies. Ha. At least pick one or the other. Shut up about Ervin Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 08:40 PM) Shut up about Ervin Santana. +1- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 09:10 PM) Yeah let's just go ahead and pretend 2011 never happened & also pretend that DeAza has been anywhere near as bad as Dunn has been. BTW you factor out Dunn's 2011 completely and guess what? Dunn 2012-13: .211/.326/.455/.781 as a DH DeAza with the Sox: .279/.343/.420/.763 as an OF with 60 SB in that span DeAza's far superior even if you hack off what was at the time the single worst season in MLB history, which is completely unfair to discount especially with an all-or-nothing power hitter going into his age 34 season with a slow enough bat already. Dunn could very easily have a similar season next year. If he declines any more than he already has he won't take the field for anyone in 2015. Alejandro De Aza could just as easily seirously injure a leg again next year, he has a history of doing so. Why are you discounting that?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 09:11 PM) Alejandro De Aza could just as easily seirously injure a leg again next year, he has a history of doing so. Why are you discounting that?! None of you guys can refute my facts, you guys are just trolling now. And hating too. Except Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 While were on the subject of Dunn, anyone think Dunn can break out in the sense of putting up respectable numbers in '14? If he table setters do well at the top of the order Dunn should see better pitches and COULD hit better as a result. Not counting on it but it could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 12:53 AM) If someone told me in December of 2010 that Adam Dunn would get out slugged by Alejandro De Aza over this three year span... That stat is incredibly skewed by 2011. De Aza only had 150 ABs and put up a ridiculous .520 slugging%, and Dunn, well Dunn had a .277 slug%. 2012 Dunn .468 vs ADA .410 2013 Dunn .442 vs ADA .405. Edited February 13, 2014 by scs787 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 01:40 AM) They both had over 1000 PAs. That's a sufficient sample size. Obviously Dunn sucked in '11 but that doesn't change the fact. I guess your statement does indeed remain true, but it doesn't really tell the whole story. Only thing it tells me is just how pathetic Dunn was in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 10:33 PM) You guys are just trolling now. And hating too. Except Marty. Gosh I wonder what that must be like to have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 05:58 AM) Gosh I wonder what that must be like to have to deal with. I believe it would be absolutely awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 06:57 PM) Are you saying that by virtue of him being our best offensive player last year he should be kept on the 25-man roster? You have problems seeing the bigger picture. Do you think about what you say or just randomly blurt out anything that fits the agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) Also I should point out that Ervin Santana on a 3-year deal during the age of 31-33 somehow is too old whereas 34-year-old Dunn needs to play so we can maybe save a few pennies. Ha. At least pick one or the other. Ervin Santana does not play for the White Sox. It would require bringing him in from outside the organization while also giving up a second round pick (which is something Rick Hahn has said he will not do). Adam Dunn is already in the organization and is signed for one more year and the Sox are going to try and save money before they outright release him. Do you not see the difference or should I spell it out with blocks and pictures? Stop bringing up Ervin Santana. You may as well suggest they sign Edgar Martinez or Randy Johnson because those two options have a more realistic chance of happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:16 PM) Let me rephrase this: Having De Aza as a starter going into the year is stupid and against EVERYTHING THE WHITE SOX ARE DOING. So if De Aza is the best outfielder out of spring training, you don't think Robin starts start him because winning is worse than hoping Viciedo eventually blossoms or Eaton eventually proves he is not a 4th outfielder. Remember, Eaton was pulled from more than 25% of the games he started in CF and RF last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) So if De Aza is the best outfielder out of spring training, you don't think Robin starts start him because winning is worse than hoping Viciedo eventually blossoms or Eaton eventually proves he is not a 4th outfielder. Remember, Eaton was pulled from more than 25% of the games he started in CF and RF last year. Eaton was pulled from 2 games last year. He made 1 pinch hit appearance. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...b&year=2013 He was used as a pinch hitter, pinch runner, and (I'm assuming here) a fielding replacement late in games as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) Also I should point out that Ervin Santana on a 3-year deal during the age of 31-33 somehow is too old whereas 34-year-old Dunn needs to play so we can maybe save a few pennies. Ha. At least pick one or the other. I think you are missing one vital piece of information in this post... I'll let you figure it out for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 08:20 AM) Ervin Santana does not play for the White Sox. It would require bringing him in from outside the organization while also giving up a second round pick (which is something Rick Hahn has said he will not do). Adam Dunn is already in the organization and is signed for one more year and the Sox are going to try and save money before they outright release him. Do you not see the difference or should I spell it out with blocks and pictures? Stop bringing up Ervin Santana. You may as well suggest they sign Edgar Martinez or Randy Johnson because those two options have a more realistic chance of happening. Aw, Wite ruined it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 08:59 AM) Aw, Wite ruined it. Sorry, I was always good at deductive reasoning in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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