Ray Rice Cut and Suspended Indefinitely

[bmags]

I agree. Obviously men are stronger than women, in the general sense. A man is probably generally going to take that punch better than a woman. But few people react this way when a woman goes after a man with a knife or a gun, which goes a long way towards negating the physical advantage men have over women.

 

A lot of this is chivalry/protectionism, which isn't necessarily wrong, but it is getting a bit out of control here.

 

That's because it doesn't happen as much as it does to women:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-na...estic-violence/

 

Men it's under 3%.

[Dick Allen]

Worse in the sense that he might have gone to jail for a night, but there's no way in hell he's losing his career. These guys punch each other in games with no fines or suspensions.

You really don't get away with knocking someone out in public. Especially when there is video of the entire thing, and your victim is willing to press charges. Rice would have been looking at several years in prison. Probably wouldn't have got it, but he would have received some time, and it would have cost him a lot of money.

[Jenksismyhero]

If he had knocked out some random guy or girl in the elevator, I'm not sure that the prosecutors let him slide with a treatment program instead of going for 3rd degree aggravated assault like they originally charged.

 

It ends up being an assault charge that takes a year to get to a trial (if he doesn't get a plea deal), for which he spends a night in jail, probably pays a big fine and gets some community service and probation. I'm sure a civil suit gets filed and he pays the guy to go away. There's a zero percent chance that, as a first time offender in the league, he's suspended for a game or cut from the team. Zero chance.

[Jenksismyhero]

You really don't get away with knocking someone out in public. Especially when there is video of the entire thing, and your victim is willing to press charges. Rice would have been looking at several years in prison. Probably wouldn't have got it, but he would have received some time, and it would have cost him a lot of money.

 

Lol, no man. Not at all. Drunken bar fights happen nightly and people RARELY spend any time in jail for it.

 

edit: other than the drunk tank anyway.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[whitesoxfan99]

Just making s*** up here. There's no evidence of that, at all.

 

Also, I'd like the record to show that we're treating women differently here, even though we're not supposed to. Equality, right? If Rice had hit another guy in the elevator this is a non-story.

 

Michigan just kicked a player off the team and that kid is facing criminal charges for sucker punching and knocking out a guy that was caught on video so you are wrong here.

 

What would be fantastic is if universities and professional sports teams stop letting guys off the hook for this type of behavior simply because they are good at sports.

[StrangeSox]

Lol, no man. Not at all. Drunken bar fights happen nightly and people RARELY spend any time in jail for it.

This wasn't a fight, though.

[southsider2k5]

When both are one time events, I think it's pretty much the same. You're just assuming there was more background here without any evidence to support it.

 

Read up on the Cycle of Abuse. An incident like this as a completely isolated occurrence would be incredibly rare.

[bmags]

You really don't get away with knocking someone out in public. Especially when there is video of the entire thing, and your victim is willing to press charges. Rice would have been looking at several years in prison. Probably wouldn't have got it, but he would have received some time, and it would have cost him a lot of money.

 

I assume you are talking about if Ray assaulted a man in the elevator who did not provoke him, not a "drunken bar fight" where both parties could be charged with assault if it is reported.

[StrangeSox]

It ends up being an assault charge that takes a year to get to a trial (if he doesn't get a plea deal), for which he spends a night in jail, probably pays a big fine and gets some community service and probation. I'm sure a civil suit gets filed and he pays the guy to go away. There's a zero percent chance that, as a first time offender in the league, he's suspended for a game or cut from the team. Zero chance.

I agree that the NFL's penalties follow no logical pattern.

[Soxbadger]

He certainly committed a crime. Whether he gets convicted of said crime is another story, but I think he would have a hard time getting out of this one.

 

But if I am a good person and for some reason my neighbor cranking Boy George at 1 in the morning bothers me so I go over and stab him to death, instead of putting me in jail, I should go to some classes to work on my behavior? If not, what is the cutoff? To me if this was a one time isolated incident, I would have figured, he would have come to his senses after he knocked her out, but yet he dragged her by her hair out of the elevator. If he is capable of doing that, why wouldn't he be capable of doing it again to anyone and why shouldn't he be considered a menace?

 

Murder and battery are not equivalent. If Ray Rice murdered his fiance, Im pretty sure they wouldnt have entered him into a domestic violence program

 

So lets make a legitimate comparison.

 

You are out one night with your friends drinking. One of your friends gets annoying and you tell him to stop. He keeps going. Youre drunk and not thinking straight, you knock him out. The police come. Your friend is like "Hey its not really his fault, we were both drunk and acting stupid, 1 time incident."

 

Should you go to jail? You knocked a human out, are you a menace? A bad person?

 

I doubt anyone has changed their stance on domestic abuse since February. What proof do you have that everyone was OK with this then, just because there wasn't an on-going long thread about it?

 

Just for the record, for now until the end of Soxtalk-dom, I have always felt like anyone who punches their significant other in the face, is fully justified in having their employer fire them, and never allow them to work for the company again. I also have no problem with other companies not being willing to hire people who feel the need to punch their significant others in the face. I felt that way in Feb. I feel that way today, and have always felt that way.

 

I never, ever seen a need to make excuses for someone who does this, and I won't.

 

He should have been cut, terminated, and/or suspended when this first happened. I also very seriously doubt that anyone on Soxtalk would have been upset if Ray Rice had these same things happen to him in Feb, just because they hadn't seen a video of it.

 

The strawmen you are creating in this thread to have something to argue about are just jaw-dropping. The passive-aggressive support for Rice here is just sad.

 

Youre entitled to your opinion. I have no problem if Rice is terminated, suspended, whatever. I think its sad that most people actually dont care about the victim and care more about patting themselves on the back about how much they stand against domestic violence, but that will never change.

 

And I dont think Ive once supported Ray Rice. Ive merely challenged people to look at the situation rationally instead of like a lynch mob. You can always take your time to review/investigate and then make an informed decision to execute. You just cant execute and take it back.

 

 

 

 

[iamshack]

That's because it doesn't happen as much as it does to women:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-na...estic-violence/

 

Men it's under 3%.

So if this was, say, a woman bodybuilder, who had slugged her boyfriend, do you think there would be anywhere near the same reaction?

[StrangeSox]

So if this was, say, a woman bodybuilder, who had slugged her boyfriend, do you think there would be anywhere near the same reaction?

Assuming for the sake of argument that she was as prominent as Ray Rice, no, but that says more about sexist views of domestic abuse that harm both men and women than anything. He'd probably be told to suck it up, take it like a man, stop being a p**** etc.

[iamshack]

Assuming for the sake of argument that she was as prominent as Ray Rice, no, but that says more about sexist views of domestic abuse that harm both men and women than anything. He'd probably be told to suck it up, take it like a man, stop being a p**** etc.

Agreed. I think mostly, he'd be laughed at.

 

What if it was two gay men? The reaction would be even more towards comedy.

[Harry Chappas]

You would have to investigate the depths to which the Hope Solo case could be compared to this.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Murder and battery are not equivalent. If Ray Rice murdered his fiance, Im pretty sure they wouldnt have entered him into a domestic violence program

 

So lets make a legitimate comparison.

 

You are out one night with your friends drinking. One of your friends gets annoying and you tell him to stop. He keeps going. Youre drunk and not thinking straight, you knock him out. The police come. Your friend is like "Hey its not really his fault, we were both drunk and acting stupid, 1 time incident."

 

Should you go to jail? You knocked a human out, are you a menace? A bad person?

 

This is not a legitimate comparison to this situation, and really demeans what actually happened between Rice and his fiance. It turns this into a "She was asking for it" type of defense.

[Jenksismyhero]

This wasn't a fight, though.

 

Even a sucker punch is not getting you a lot of jail time in most cases for a first time offender. Unless it was that knock out game, but I think most of those sentences were higher because they changed some laws.

 

[Soxbadger]

This is not a legitimate comparison to this situation, and really demeans what actually happened between Rice and his fiance. It turns this into a "She was asking for it" type of defense.

 

Where did I say she was "asking for it". I dont believe anyone is ever "asking" to be hit. Nor do I believe anyone has the right to hit anyone else.

 

Soo you are really reaching to defend your position, because I dont believe that anyone should hit another person, unless its in self-defense.

 

Which is why the comparison is appropriate, because in neither scenario was the violence allowable.

 

/shrug

[southsider2k5]

Where did I say she was "asking for it". I dont believe anyone is ever "asking" to be hit. Nor do I believe anyone has the right to hit anyone else.

 

Soo you are really reaching to defend your position, because I dont believe that anyone should hit another person, unless its in self-defense.

 

Which is why the comparison is appropriate, because in neither scenario was the violence allowable.

 

/shrug

 

So what does this mean, exactly?

 

One of your friends gets annoying and you tell him to stop. He keeps going.

[StrangeSox]

So what does this mean, exactly?

Yeah, it implicitly places some of the blame on the victim.

[Jenksismyhero]

You would have to investigate the depths to which the Hope Solo case could be compared to this.

 

Good point.

[Soxbadger]

What that means is the other person doesnt agree to your request, so instead of walking away or doing the right thing you decide to break the law and use violence.

 

The other person doesnt have to stop their behavior, you have to make the correct choice to not hit them.

 

Doesnt blame them at all. Because I never said they were doing something wrong. I mean at any point did I say the other person was in the wrong? Or are you just completely making that set of facts up.

 

Just because someone is being annoying, doesnt mean you have the right to hit them, nor does it mean they are doing anything wrong. I get annoyed by people who are completely within their rights all the time, still annoys me, and I still may ask them to stop. If I then break the law and hurt them, its not their fault, its entirely mine.

 

/shrug

[southsider2k5]

What that means is the other person doesnt agree to your request, so instead of walking away or doing the right thing you decide to break the law and use violence.

 

The other person doesnt have to stop their behavior, you have to make the correct choice to not hit them.

 

Doesnt blame them at all. Because I never said they were doing something wrong. I mean at any point did I say the other person was in the wrong? Or are you just completely making that set of facts up.

 

Just because someone is being annoying, doesnt mean you have the right to hit them, nor does it mean they are doing anything wrong. I get annoyed by people who are completely within their rights all the time, still annoys me, and I still may ask them to stop. If I then break the law and hurt them, its not their fault, its entirely mine.

 

/shrug

 

lol. That is an awful rationalization of an attempt to slip a justification into a make believe scenario to distract away from what really happened. The bit of make believe is complete irrelevant to reality.

 

Does the NFL have a right to punish Rice? Absolutely. Do they have the right to terminate his status as an employee? Also yes. The answers are the same if the question is do the Ravens have that right.

 

Other than that, it is all irrelevant.

[IlliniKrush]

How wasnt their much to post about in February? We knew about the "abuse"then. If youre such a domestic violence crusader you didnt need to see a more explicit video. Where were all the people telling his fiance not to marry him, that hes an "abuser" etc?

 

The suspension came out in July, once again, where was all of this?

 

Its just like the beheading videos. I dont need to see a reporter having his head cut off to know how brutal it is. I am just as outraged seeing it or not seeing it. Same with back in February where literally no one cared about this.

You're straight-up trolling at this point.

 

There wasn't much to post in February, because again, the NFL didn't make any terrible decision regarding the suspension. If you want, feel free to go find everyone's posts saying "cool, he knocked that b**** out, domestic violence is cool" in February.

 

I DIDN'T need to see more video. That's the point. Nor should the NFL have needed to see more video, even though there's no doubt they did, tried to cover it, and this forced their hand.

 

You still can't comprehend that the majority of the outrage came when the NFL announced their punishment. And yes, there were posts about it then, feel free to go back and read them. They were there in July, too. The media was all over it then, too. There were posts then, there were posts now. The point still remains the same, the NFL and the Ravens got it wrong the first time. That's where all of this discussion started.

 

Since then, other topics have come up in here, provoking more discussion than at the original time. This didn't just start yesterday. BW's post hit the nail on the head.

 

/shrugs.

[Jenksismyhero]

Can we stop with the /shrugs? It's getting old.

 

/sighs

[StrangeSox]

/gets into three-point stance