FWIW being found not guilty and being "proven innocent" are not the same thing by a long shot.

So is there any threshold where you think Kane should be able to move past this if he isnt convicted or should he have to go through the rest of his life being known as a rapist? Your statement works both ways also. Settling out of court and being guilty are also not the same thing.

Who said they were?

Well it doesn't make sense to say "proven innocent" in the context of a trial.

Well it doesn't make sense to say "proven innocent" in the context of a trial.

Ahh, fair point.

Why?

 

Because "proven innocent" isn't something our legal system does. You can be proven not-guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, even when completely guilty. We have seen it happen so many times.

So is there any threshold where you think Kane should be able to move past this if he isnt convicted or should he have to go through the rest of his life being known as a rapist? Your statement works both ways also. Settling out of court and being guilty are also not the same thing.

 

Settling out of court allows people to see what they want to see, but it does allow for doubt to be introduced either way. The difference being all kinds of trail related detail won't be drug out in public with a settlement that would in a trial.

Let's say Kane settles, gets suspended 20 games and plays in game 21 against whoever. If he has another great year yet declines rehab- since let's face it he's a douchy drunk- I honestly hope it's the last season he ever plays with the Hawks. He is without a doubt my favorite Hawk of all time- because let's face he's exciting as s***- but he obviously has an issue that he continues to ignore. I hate not being surprised anymore if the moron will fill my Twitter timeline every offseason for the wrong reasons.

Because "proven innocent" isn't something our legal system does. You can be proven not-guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, even when completely guilty. We have seen it happen so many times.

Fair enough but you can also be completely innocent and proven not guilty as we have seen happen so many times. Still your "third paragraph" didnt have much to do with my point in that its easier for him to pay somebody off instead of sitting through a lengthy trial that keeps him away from his job, even if he's completely innocent.

Edited September 8, 201510 yr by RockRaines

Fair enough but you can also be completely innocent and proven not guilty as we have seen happen so many times.

 

Completely innocent would also mean that there was a pretty big lack of evidence to go with it, which would mean a lack of a case in a crime that is already notoriously hard to prove.

Completely innocent would also mean that there was a pretty big lack of evidence to go with it, which would mean a lack of a case in a crime that is already notoriously hard to prove.

Sure or a ton of circumstantial evidence while no real crime took place. It happens all the time, people go to trial with assumptions vs actual evidence. People are wrongfully convicted on shoddy "evidence" all the time.

Sure or a ton of circumstantial evidence while no real crime took place. It happens all the time, people go to trial with assumptions vs actual evidence. People are wrongfully convicted on shoddy "evidence" all the time.

 

If there is a complete lack of physical or corroborating evidence outside of witness testimony, a rape case of this stature doesn't even get off of the ground. No DA would have even touched this because of their own political career.

If there is a complete lack of physical or corroborating evidence outside of witness testimony, a rape case of this stature doesn't even get off of the ground. No DA would have even touched this because of their own political career.

And it hasnt gotten off the ground yet. I've seen where almost 41% of date rape cases are falsely accused or reported. Thats an extremely high number and many of those were taken to trial and prosecuted. Its not outside the realm of possibility whatsoever.

And it hasnt gotten off the ground yet. I've seen where almost 41% of date rape cases are falsely accused or reported. Thats an extremely high number and many of those were taken to trial and prosecuted. Its not outside the realm of possibility whatsoever.

 

What percentage of those "false" cases get to a grand jury?

If there is no merit and no chance Kane can get convicted, it seems unlikely the case would go to trial, and it seems like bad legal advice to give the wrongful accuser cash. Makes it look like something happened where Kane isn't so sure he wouldn't get convicted. If he settles, I bet he gets suspended, and if Lazerus' story is accurate at all, he's probably done with the Blackhawks. As I said earlier, a legal expert on ABC said yesterday the fact that it was even going to a grand jury indicates prosecutors thought they had a case.

Edited September 8, 201510 yr by Dick Allen

Is NY one of the states that requires a grand jury or can the prosecutor directly indict?

What percentage of those "false" cases get to a grand jury?

"Many"

"Many"

 

You cited a study, do you have any actual details, or is this urban legend?

Isn't the actual rate of false accusations somewhere around 5%? 41% seems ridiculously high.

Settling out of court allows people to see what they want to see, but it does allow for doubt to be introduced either way. The difference being all kinds of trail related detail won't be drug out in public with a settlement that would in a trial.

 

excellent!!!!

And it hasnt gotten off the ground yet. I've seen where almost 41% of date rape cases are falsely accused or reported. Thats an extremely high number and many of those were taken to trial and prosecuted. Its not outside the realm of possibility whatsoever.

That doesn't mean you have to publicly smear and shame all "victims" since even by your stat (which I have no basis where it comes from) their would be 59% who were properly prosecuted. None of the facts back this up as a money play and I think it is disgusting that people pass this judgement that she is at fault (or flat out call Kane a rapist) as nothing has been proven and to just jump to conclusions without any relevant information / facts is just absurd (on either side). Sometimes it helps to put yourself in other people's shoes or think if it was your kids. And I think given what has came out, on either side, I would be upset if people generally concluded one way or another (whether about Kane or the girl).

You cited a study, do you have any actual details, or is this urban legend?

Oh I thought we were randomly quoting words like you did. It doesn't specifically say how many got to grand jury. But you are more than welcome to check on that. The 41 percent was specifically mentioned as a cross section based on a decade of research from 94-04.

That doesn't mean you have to publicly smear and shame all "victims" since even by your stat (which I have no basis where it comes from) their would be 59% who were properly prosecuted. None of the facts back this up as a money play and I think it is disgusting that people pass this judgement that she is at fault (or flat out call Kane a rapist) as nothing has been proven and to just jump to conclusions without any relevant information / facts is just absurd (on either side). Sometimes it helps to put yourself in other people's shoes or think if it was your kids. And I think given what has came out, on either side, I would be upset if people generally concluded one way or another (whether about Kane or the girl).

Who is publicly shaming all rape victims? That's messed up.

Isn't the actual rate of false accusations somewhere around 5%? 41% seems ridiculously high.

That's what they said for accusations or reported date rape incidents. I'll find the link when I get back to my office.

 

Ill add something I mentioned before that the difficulty in proving or finding evidence for these types of crimes surely inflates whether or not people got prosecuted for their crime or even get moved past the reported stage. That alone could inflate any number and provide a bias for this type of research. Its a crime where many DO get away with it unfortunately

Edited September 8, 201510 yr by RockRaines

Oh I thought we were randomly quoting words like you did. It doesn't specifically say how many got to grand jury. But you are more than welcome to check on that. The 41 percent was specifically mentioned as a cross section based on a decade of research from 94-04.

 

I was quoting your words, since you didn't attach any actual information to it. Again, do you have an actual study, or just more shaming?

 

 

That's what they said for accusations or reported date rape incidents. I'll find the link when I get back to my office.

 

Ill add something I mentioned before that the difficulty in proving or finding evidence for these types of crimes surely inflates whether or not people got prosecuted for their crime or even get moved past the reported stage. That alone could inflate any number and provide a bias for this type of research. Its a crime where many DO get away with it unfortunately

 

It is also BY FAR the most underreported crime out there, exactly because of threads like this.

It is also BY FAR the most underreported crime out there, exactly because of threads like this.

Because of threads like this, people do not report rapes?