Jared Fogle/Subway scandal...presumption of guilt?

[Balta1701]

balta you should stop yourself. You would be a lonely dude in that protest line.

And frankly that's embarrassing too.

 

I know there's nothing I can do about it, but I consider those jokes sad and I consider people who think "If a person was raped that would be great!" to be pretty darn sick too. And I'll keep saying it every time people think how hilarious it is.

[flavum]

No. No one deserves that and any human being with a shred of dignity would think the fact that we allow it and consider it normal in our prisons to be disgusting and pathetic. Doesn't matter what they did, it's sickening that we allow it and even more pathetic that we think it's a standard haha funny joke.

 

I can see the point you're making. Am I going to feel sorry individually for Fogle if he finds himself getting hurt in prison? Probably not.

 

But overall, for other crimes, prisoners should be able to do their time without having the threat of rape part of their daily life. If prison is also supposed to rehabilitate people, then having violent crime go on inside the walls isn't helping things.

[Balta1701]

Am I going to feel sorry individually for Fogle if he finds himself getting hurt in prison? Probably not.

I would also generally agree with that statement that I will not feel bad for him. I do, however, feel embarrassed if and when our country allows it to happen, and the fact that it's such a common joke really makes me sick to my stomach. Fair enough?

[Dick Allen]

I would also generally agree with that statement that I will not feel bad for him. I do, however, feel embarrassed if and when our country allows it to happen, and the fact that it's such a common joke really makes me sick to my stomach. Fair enough?

Keep in mind Jared had his buddy secretly film kids as young as 6 , who he knew by name, in sexual situations. If someone wants to have their way with him, I'm all for it. There really is no way he can 'pay his debt to society" in full. He has probably ruined several innocent lives.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Dick Allen

[shipps]

Keep in mind Jared had his buddy secretly film kids as young as 6 , who he knew by name, in sexual situations. If someone wants to have their way with him, I'm all for it. There really is no way he can 'pay his debt to society" in full. He has probably ruined several innocent lives.

 

Nope that is sick to think that way. We should have the decency as a society to not think about those children and focus on making sure everyone has a comfortable stay at all of our fine correctional facilities.

[Balta1701]

Nope that is sick to think that way. We should have the decency as a society to not think about those children and focus on making sure everyone has a comfortable stay at all of our fine correctional facilities.

GMAB. "Not being f***ing raped" = comfortable? BS. Would you use those same words to describe the way he treated the children? I mean sexual abuse is a joke and comfortable right?

[flavum]

Keep in mind Jared had his buddy secretly film kids as young as 6 , who he knew by name, in sexual situations. If someone wants to have their way with him, I'm all for it. There really is no way he can 'pay his debt to society" in full. He has probably ruined several innocent lives.

 

I'll never understand how some people's brains are wired to be into this. So disgusting.

[shipps]

GMAB. "Not being f***ing raped" = comfortable? BS. Would you use those same words to describe the way he treated the children? I mean sexual abuse is a joke and comfortable right?

 

You have lost it. Comparing what he done to the children and what may happen to him while he is in prison because he put himself there because of his own actions (getting off easy no matter what happens to him compared to how he has ruined young lives) are completely different situations.

 

I see that it is pointless in arguing with you about it though. We are not going to agree on this.

[Balta1701]

You have lost it. Comparing what he done to the children and what may happen to him while he is in prison because he put himself there because of his own actions (getting off easy no matter what happens to him compared to how he has ruined young lives) are completely different situations.

 

I see that it is pointless in arguing with you about it though. We are not going to agree on this.

Do you believe the 8th amendment is a mistake and that rape is an appropriate thing for the United States to be doing as punishment even unofficially?

 

The fact that people defend this drives me nuts. Put him in jail for as long as his well paid legal team will allow. Rape is not a punishment. It is barbaric and it is something the country shouldn't be doing to anyone. It's not a joke and we're worse people because we treat it as such.

[Kyyle23]

No. No one deserves that and any human being with a shred of dignity would think the fact that we allow it and consider it normal in our prisons to be disgusting and pathetic. Doesn't matter what they did, it's sickening that we allow it and even more pathetic that we think it's a standard haha funny joke.

 

Ok. Move along then

[shipps]

Do you believe the 8th amendment is a mistake and that rape is an appropriate thing for the United States to be doing as punishment even unofficially?

 

The fact that people defend this drives me nuts. Put him in jail for as long as his well paid legal team will allow. Rape is not a punishment. It is barbaric and it is something the country shouldn't be doing to anyone. It's not a joke and we're worse people because we treat it as such.

 

You keep on saying its all a joke. I am not joking about it. I hope that pedophiles get raped when they go to prison. I have a family member who was raped and molested by another individual repeatedly. All that he put her through throughout her life and to what she is still dealing with now and I am supposed to worry about society and our perspective on rape in jails? The jokes are at the very bottom of my list of worries and to what I am going to stand for.

[Dick Allen]

Do you believe the 8th amendment is a mistake and that rape is an appropriate thing for the United States to be doing as punishment even unofficially?

 

The fact that people defend this drives me nuts. Put him in jail for as long as his well paid legal team will allow. Rape is not a punishment. It is barbaric and it is something the country shouldn't be doing to anyone. It's not a joke and we're worse people because we treat it as such.

So you are OK, and not embarrassed or sickened by punishment basically being determined by the quality of representation one can afford, instead of what they have done.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

So you are OK, and not embarrassed or sickened by punishment basically being determined by the quality of representation one can afford, instead of what they have done.

Oh I am. I'd count that as a problem worth fixing as well, hence why it got included in that statement.

[Balta1701]

You keep on saying its all a joke. I am not joking about it. I hope that pedophiles get raped when they go to prison. I have a family member who was raped and molested by another individual repeatedly. All that he put her through throughout her life and to what she is still dealing with now and I am supposed to worry about society and our perspective on rape in jails? The jokes are at the very bottom of my list of worries and to what I am going to stand for.

Let me say this one more carefully then in response.

 

While I understand your grief and your personal issues, I feel strongly that it devalues us all when we treat rape as ok under any circumstances. I will understand that not everyone will find this to be a major issue. I feel it is more important to point out precisely because it's difficult for people to stand up for the rights of people who already broke the law once. People may get annoyed with my stance on this issue and this is not the first time I've taken this stance here at ST. I do so because it's not exactly an issue people are going to be passionate about, most people are happy to ignore it and, as you note, some people will have experiences that make it particularly personal for them going the other way.

 

The fact that people are willing to look the other way is why it happens. Even if it's understandable that people are willing to look the other way, I feel we're a worse people for having it happen at all. In this case I can point at the U.S. bill of rights and say "this is wrong" and "two wrongs do not make something right". So even if I'm never going to get you to take an interest in this issue, I feel prison rape is something I don't want happening to anyone with my support, even my tacit acknowledgment. I'll leave it at that.

[Jenksismyhero]

Pssh, screw rape in prison, Fogle and his kind should have their dicks cut off. There is no punishment big enough or severe enough for what they do to the most innocent and helpless people out there.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

I would also generally agree with that statement that I will not feel bad for him. I do, however, feel embarrassed if and when our country allows it to happen, and the fact that it's such a common joke really makes me sick to my stomach. Fair enough?

Serious question...is it more a common joke because people think it is funny and just presume that is what happens in prison, or does it really happen to the extent people joke about (because of what they've seen dramatized on tv)? Maybe this is a dumb question but I've never looked into it and I don't know anyone who any time in jail (outside of the drunk tank).

[cabiness42]

Let me say this one more carefully then in response.

 

While I understand your grief and your personal issues, I feel strongly that it devalues us all when we treat rape as ok under any circumstances. I will understand that not everyone will find this to be a major issue. I feel it is more important to point out precisely because it's difficult for people to stand up for the rights of people who already broke the law once. People may get annoyed with my stance on this issue and this is not the first time I've taken this stance here at ST. I do so because it's not exactly an issue people are going to be passionate about, most people are happy to ignore it and, as you note, some people will have experiences that make it particularly personal for them going the other way.

 

The fact that people are willing to look the other way is why it happens. Even if it's understandable that people are willing to look the other way, I feel we're a worse people for having it happen at all. In this case I can point at the U.S. bill of rights and say "this is wrong" and "two wrongs do not make something right". So even if I'm never going to get you to take an interest in this issue, I feel prison rape is something I don't want happening to anyone with my support, even my tacit acknowledgment. I'll leave it at that.

 

I don't treat rape or any other crime committed against prisoners as OK, but at the same time, I think there are limits to how much human/financial resources corrections departments should spend in trying to prevent these crimes.

[daa84]

was wondering why this was in the buster, but that got answered pretty quickly

[Chisoxfn]

On a sidenote, what a sick scumbag he is. Truly pathetic and disgusting. If my kid was on that list, I'd be in prison for what I would have done to Jared.

[bmags]

Serious question...is it more a common joke because people think it is funny and just presume that is what happens in prison, or does it really happen to the extent people joke about (because of what they've seen dramatized on tv)? Maybe this is a dumb question but I've never looked into it and I don't know anyone who any time in jail (outside of the drunk tank).

 

I believe, don't have it in front of me, that the highest number of victims happens in juvenile prisons, and guards are a big perpetrator. So the haha funny joke is as depressing as Balta makes out. It's a terrible issue that gets no standing because people feel like they deserve it, which is disgusting.

 

Something so incredible to me, is this is something so on the margins of society, where if I heard anyone discuss anything hinting on this i'd at the very least tell people what I heard, but likely call the cops. That these people could have been doing this for years is not that surprising, it's that they can find partners in crime. I assume this is internet anonymity helping this? Certainly Jared and his president didn't just find out together.

[Jenksismyhero]

I believe, don't have it in front of me, that the highest number of victims happens in juvenile prisons, and guards are a big perpetrator. So the haha funny joke is as depressing as Balta makes out. It's a terrible issue that gets no standing because people feel like they deserve it, which is disgusting.

 

Something so incredible to me, is this is something so on the margins of society, where if I heard anyone discuss anything hinting on this i'd at the very least tell people what I heard, but likely call the cops. That these people could have been doing this for years is not that surprising, it's that they can find partners in crime. I assume this is internet anonymity helping this? Certainly Jared and his president didn't just find out together.

 

Come on, you don't see the difference between a rape between a guard and a juvi inmate (a minor) and a child molester in gen pop?

[Y2HH]

I don't think "prison rape" is something we allow, it's more like something that happens. You are talking about some of the worst of the worst people from society performing these acts.

 

This is a case of you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

If you wan't to get rid of rape in prison, there are two very simple solutions -- get caught raping someone -- you get the choice of the death penalty or life in solitary.

 

The situation will then resolve itself.

 

But the reality is, I'm sure you'd protest that, too. Because it's inhumane to be inhumane to the inhumane and all...and yes, I said that properly.

[Jake]

No better way to rid our society of rape than to rape those who commit crimes and then, in many cases, allow both rapist and newfound rape victim enter society after serving their time

[shipps]

I believe, don't have it in front of me, that the highest number of victims happens in juvenile prisons, and guards are a big perpetrator. So the haha funny joke is as depressing as Balta makes out. It's a terrible issue that gets no standing because people feel like they deserve it, which is disgusting.

 

Something so incredible to me, is this is something so on the margins of society, where if I heard anyone discuss anything hinting on this i'd at the very least tell people what I heard, but likely call the cops. That these people could have been doing this for years is not that surprising, it's that they can find partners in crime. I assume this is internet anonymity helping this? Certainly Jared and his president didn't just find out together.

 

Those guards are pedophiles and should go to prison and have their fate awaiting them as well. I dont think many would believe that juveniles deserve to be raped while they are jail.

[bmags]

I don't think "prison rape" is something we allow, it's more like something that happens. You are talking about some of the worst of the worst people from society performing these acts.

 

This is a case of you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

If you wan't to get rid of rape in prison, there are two very simple solutions -- get caught raping someone -- you get the choice of the death penalty or life in solitary.

 

The situation will then resolve itself.

 

But the reality is, I'm sure you'd protest that, too. Because it's inhumane to be inhumane to the inhumane and all...and yes, I said that properly.

 

There have been actual reforms presented to Congress that don't even get out of committee. Nobody is spending effort on people that aren't even constituents.