John McDonough

[LDF]

I think bottom line, what is keeping the fans away and what will continue to keep the fans away is the staid, unmoving, inability to change the approach and higher level personnel year after year, despite the same crappy results.. The Sox are 67 games and counting under .500 since late 2012, a one game improvement so far from 2014, and yet.. chance are high that the same bunch of mopes in the front office, Cooper, Ventura, etc. will all be back.. it just shows a lack of progressive thinking and stubbornness to stick to an approach that isn't working… and they wonder why people don't show up

 

welcome to the status quo of the org called white sox. this was more true in the heydays of the 90's .... if one will go back and really look at that decade with an open mind.

 

in today's economic situations, someone or fans will not spend the money without care or cause. so if someone wants to fans to spend the money, entice them with the product on the field. for starters.

 

the white sox fans are the ones that has to work for a living and are smarter when it come to their money being spent.

[LDF]

And this thread has nothing to do with any of those perceptions.

 

oh.... i really hate to disagree. it has everything to do with perceptions. every since JR rant on tv of the fans not spending by not coming out to support the team by buy season tickets.

[southsider2k5]

oh.... i really hate to disagree. it has everything to do with perceptions. every since JR rant on tv of the fans not spending by not coming out to support the team by buy season tickets.

 

Unless you believe that it isn't the product on the field that brings Sox fans out, but it is fancy marketing, you are wrong.

[LDF]

Unless you believe that it isn't the product on the field that brings Sox fans out, but it is fancy marketing, you are wrong.

 

i really don't understand what you are saying.... but i will answer your statement. with this.

 

i truly believe it is the product on the field that really sell the tickets.

 

it makes the advertising and marketing people's jobs alot easier.

 

without the product, and the visualization of that improvement, the fans will not come out.

[oldsox]

And yet, the Rockies drew over 40,000 on Saturday and over 32,000 yesterday, despite a worse team/record.

[LDF]

And yet, the Rockies drew over 40,000 on Saturday and over 32,000 yesterday, despite a worse team/record.

 

and while you are right ..... about another team.

 

i am talking about chi white sox and no other team.

 

but if you want to use that to make a point, well you can.

[Lip Man 1]

I think bottom line, what is keeping the fans away and what will continue to keep the fans away is the staid, unmoving, inability to change the approach and higher level personnel year after year, despite the same crappy results.. The Sox are 67 games and counting under .500 since late 2012, a one game improvement so far from 2014, and yet.. chance are high that the same bunch of mopes in the front office, Cooper, Ventura, etc. will all be back.. it just shows a lack of progressive thinking and stubbornness to stick to an approach that isn't working… and they wonder why people don't show up

 

Well said. The Sox simply refuse to accept change as a needed part of any organization.

 

I'm not advocating change for changes sake or constant change (which leads to constant chaos) but you have to be willing to admit when things aren't working, when a philosophy (of rebuilding while contending) simply doesn't achieve what you want and move on.

 

That and the fact that to me there is a group mindset on looking at the problems in the same vein, which complicates things. (Not blaming those folks, that's human nature when the same people have been together for so long.)

 

Mark

 

 

[LDF]

Well said. The Sox simply refuse to accept change as a needed part of any organization.

 

I'm not advocating change for changes sake or constant change (which leads to constant chaos) but you have to be willing to admit when things aren't working, when a philosophy (of rebuilding while contending) simply doesn't achieve what you want and move on.

 

That and the fact that to me there is a group mindset on looking at the problems in the same vein, which complicates things. (Not blaming those folks, that's human nature when the same people have been together for so long.)

 

Mark

 

whew ..... deep.

 

that what happen when some gets some educations or book learning.

 

but in the end of the day, this idea has been used since the beginning of the ownership tenure. it needs to change, it is not working.

[Jake]

I think one of the biggest big picture limitations the Sox have is the location of their ballpark. It doesn't make success impossible by any stretch, but I think it is a big part of the reason that the baseline for attendance is so low.

[LDF]

I think one of the biggest big picture limitations the Sox have is the location of their ballpark. It doesn't make success impossible by any stretch, but I think it is a big part of the reason that the baseline for attendance is so low.

 

this is a fable created by someone and is entrench in as a excuse used by some group.

 

look at the attendance in 2005 and yes 2006....

 

now look at the attendance from 1990 - 1998 ....

 

then tell me.

[southsider2k5]

I think one of the biggest big picture limitations the Sox have is the location of their ballpark. It doesn't make success impossible by any stretch, but I think it is a big part of the reason that the baseline for attendance is so low.

 

Why is that a detriment to the Sox, but not the Cubs?

[Lip Man 1]

I think one of the biggest big picture limitations the Sox have is the location of their ballpark. It doesn't make success impossible by any stretch, but I think it is a big part of the reason that the baseline for attendance is so low.

 

The location does have something of an impact to be sure.

 

The expressways seem to constantly have repairs being done to them. Can't remember much of a time period when every thing was always open for traveling on. It does force fans to make a choice at times.

 

Then you had the closings of some el-stops and construction on them too.

 

However there's nothing that can be done about moving the stadium not at this point anyway.

 

Which means the other option to draw fans is to consistently win. That doesn't mean making the playoffs every single season (as some have alluded to) but you certainly have to make it more often than once every seven years (which is the 'success' rate for this ownership group, five times in almost 35 years)

 

Mark

 

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

Why is that a detriment to the Sox, but not the Cubs?

 

 

Have never been to Wrigley Field (literally) so I don't know what the neighborhood is like. Have heard it's more young, upscale, yuppie-like.

 

I do know that historically the Sox have been fighting perceptions about the area since the social unrest of the 1960's.

 

That's unfair to be sure but perception becomes reality in the mind of the public over time and that's something of a reality for the Sox.

 

I personally know of many Sox fans who are older who simply refuse to go into the area around U.S. Cellular Field.

 

Mark

Edited September 28, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[Steve9347]

I would love to see McDonough try to perform his "magic" with this fanbase and this ownership. He wouldn't last two years.

Ok now, there were about 5,000 active, regular Blackhawks fans prior to $ Bill dying and McDonough being hired. Now, it sure helped they had dynamic, young talent and a whole lot of easy fixes (they had 2 people in their marketing department the day $ Bill died, for f***'s sake, and they didn't air home games), but to act like the Hawks had any sort of fanbase prior to McDonough and getting good is silly.

 

The Sox have a couple nice, young, dynamic arms in the minors and two assets that could super charge their rebuild in Sale and Abreu should they consider blowing it up.

[LDF]

Have never been to Wrigley Field (literally) so I don't know what the neighborhood is like. Have heard it's more young, upscale, yuppie-like.

 

I do know that historically the Sox have been fighting perceptions about the area since the social unrest of the 1960's.

 

That's unfair to be sure but perception becomes reality in the mind of the public over time and that's something of a reality for the Sox.

 

I personally know of many Sox fans who are older who simply refuse to go into the area around U.S. Cellular Field.

 

Mark

 

when i had my season tickets all those yrs ago, it was bad. it is more rougher in the northside. why, b/c the parking at the sox games are secured. unless if they park outside the area. but i wouldn't know.

 

i always thought it was the mystique of the area, plus the idea of continue to party in around the area.

 

i never like the team up there, but there was a bar called wild hair right across the park. yeah i went up there and have a hell of a time. but that was in the 80 and early 90's.

 

there is that same climate around the sox park.

[LDF]

Ok now, there were about 5,000 active, regular Blackhawks fans prior to $ Bill dying and McDonough being hired. Now, it sure helped they had dynamic, young talent and a whole lot of easy fixes (they had 2 people in their marketing department the day $ Bill died, for f***'s sake, and they didn't air home games), but to act like the Hawks had any sort of fanbase prior to McDonough and getting good is silly.

 

The Sox have a couple nice, young, dynamic arms in the minors and two assets that could super charge their rebuild in Sale and Abreu should they consider blowing it up.

 

most are really missing the point. when McD took over, there was a new owner in place....

 

if there was ever a chance for McD to take over the sox..... it will not happen. the owners would have to relinquish alot of their power and decision making.

[ewokpelts]

In ever other White Sox relevancy thread,I read the Sox can't be relevant unless they start making the playoffs every year, and am constantly told t is what fans are owed. They shouldn't be expected to support simply good teams, they need a consistent winner. How would McDonough accomplish that? He is a marketing guy.

It's obvious. Give out stretch sale figures.

[ewokpelts]

The location does have something of an impact to be sure.

 

The expressways seem to constantly have repairs being done to them. Can't remember much of a time period when every thing was always open for traveling on. It does force fans to make a choice at times.

 

Then you had the closings of some el-stops and construction on them too.

 

However there's nothing that can be done about moving the stadium not at this point anyway.

 

Which means the other option to draw fans is to consistently win. That doesn't mean making the playoffs every single season (as some have alluded to) but you certainly have to make it more often than once every seven years (which is the 'success' rate for this ownership group, five times in almost 35 years)

 

Mark

the sox had two of their best attended years ever when the Dan Ryan was completely shut down. And 2007 they lost 90 games!

 

The red line project had little impact in 2013 as the green line station served all riders from the red line. And the sox reduced parking fees as a buffer.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

[Lip Man 1]

the sox had two of their best attended years ever when the Dan Ryan was completely shut down. And 2007 they lost 90 games!

 

The red line project had little impact in 2013 as the green line station served all riders from the red line. And the sox reduced parking fees as a buffer.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

Possibly. All I know is what I read on various sites and the expressways situation and the el stops are brought up on a regular basis. Take it for what it's worth.

 

And that doesn't invalidate the second part of the comment, making the playoffs more often than once every seven seasons.

 

Mark

 

[LDF]

the sox had two of their best attended years ever when the Dan Ryan was completely shut down. And 2007 they lost 90 games!

 

The red line project had little impact in 2013 as the green line station served all riders from the red line. And the sox reduced parking fees as a buffer.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

there is no right or no wrong. i don't understand why it is important to prove anyone wrong.

 

now the whole point is, unless the sox build a team that a can compete and b. stop blaming the fans for not coming out, nothing may get done.

 

it is as SS2k5 stated, the owners may not invest in the team unless the fans comes out..... or so the owners believe in that.

 

in all this, what were the actual attendance numbers of the yrs you stated???

[ewokpelts]

I think one of the biggest big picture limitations the Sox have is the location of their ballpark. It doesn't make success impossible by any stretch, but I think it is a big part of the reason that the baseline for attendance is so low.

Yes, having a 6 lane super highway, THREE mass trains lines with an exit no more than 2 blocks from the park, 7000 parking spaces as low as $10, and multiple points of street access really hurt a club.

[ewokpelts]

there is no right or no wrong. i don't understand why it is important to prove anyone wrong.

 

now the whole point is, unless the sox build a team that a can compete and b. stop blaming the fans for not coming out, nothing may get done.

 

it is as SS2k5 stated, the owners may not invest in the team unless the fans comes out..... or so the owners believe in that.

 

in all this, what were the actual attendance numbers of the yrs you stated???

2006: 2.96 million

2007: 2.68 million

 

I don't recall 2013, but it outdrew 2014 and possibly 2015.

[TaylorStSox]

The problem isn't that the neighborhood is bad, it's that there's nothing to do. Times have changed. People want to do more than just go to a ball game. Bridgeport is just boring tbh.

[LDF]

2006: 2.96 million

2007: 2.68 million

 

I don't recall 2013, but it outdrew 2014 and possibly 2015.

 

many thanks

[ewokpelts]

The problem isn't that the neighborhood is bad, it's that there's nothing to do. Times have changed. People want to do more than just go to a ball game. Bridgeport is just boring tbh.

The united center is Ina sea of parking lots and has worse surroundings than million dollar homes in Bridgeport. And no tailgating.