Higher then I expected tbh. But we fell 28 spots. Big tumble.

 

verall: 85

Title track: 32

Ownership: 65

Coaching: 118

Players: 106

Fan relations: 87

Affordability: 31

Stadium experience: 81

Bang for the buck: 92

Change from last year: -28

 

It was a tough year for the White Sox in the standings -- they dropped in nearly every category. There is good news, though: Ticket prices are still below the MLB average; U.S. Cellular Field is improving, if still largely empty; and the team is expected to improve its win total for a third consecutive season. Their Ultimate Standings spot is on the wane, but a few more years of improved performance could change that.

 

More at link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13830149...t-losing-season

Only 8 spots behind the cubs

The irony is that ownership is one of their highest rated categories.

The irony is that ownership is one of their highest rated categories.

Reinsdorf is a powerful and respected owner. However, he has not improved the front office, which sucks.

The irony is that ownership is one of their highest rated categories.

Irony, indeed! Makes you wonder what criteria they use to render such a conclusion.

Irony, indeed! Makes you wonder what criteria they use to render such a conclusion.

 

Fan complaints, I am sure.

Irony, indeed! Makes you wonder what criteria they use to render such a conclusion.

 

"Ownership (13.1%): Honesty; loyalty to core players and the local community"

 

I'd say Jerry is top notch all of those. I don't think loyalty to core players is always a good thing though.

Fan complaints, I am sure.

Well, it certainly doesn't seem to be weighted towards actual team results. Our "ownership" doesn't have a whole heckuva lot to point to in that regard.

Well, it certainly doesn't seem to be weighted towards actual team results. Our "ownership" doesn't have a whole heckuva lot to point to in that regard.

 

Our highest ranking, besides affordability...

 

Title track (4.6%): Championships won or expected within the lifetime of current fans

Surprised they are that high given the last nine years from falling attendance, to winning seasons to TV ratings.

 

Mark

Edited October 13, 201510 yr by Lip Man 1

Our highest ranking, besides affordability...

My favorite part of the article was where it said "Of course, the best way to fix a drop in fan support is to reel off a string of playoff appearances". I mean, who woulda thunk it!!

 

My favorite part of the article was where it said "Of course, the best way to fix a drop in fan support is to reel off a string of playoff appearances". I mean, who woulda thunk it!!

 

 

Sure, load up the bandwagon.

Sure, load up the bandwagon.

By all means! You don't think everyone of those ballparks currently "active" with postseason play have their fair share of bandwagon fans? Goes with the territory, so bring it on!!

Sure, load up the bandwagon.

 

Bandwagon fans means more money for the franchise to spend (hopefully) at least part of it on getting good players to keep coming in and continuing winning baseball.

 

Mark

 

My favorite part of the article was where it said "Of course, the best way to fix a drop in fan support is to reel off a string of playoff appearances". I mean, who woulda thunk it!!

 

 

Even that has it's downs if you don't win it all like the Braves.

 

Bandwagon fans means more money for the franchise to spend (hopefully) at least part of it on getting good players to keep coming in and continuing winning baseball.

 

Mark

 

Loyal fans mean money when things aren't good. Wouldn't that be nice now.

Loyal fans mean money when things aren't good. Wouldn't that be nice now.

 

Media contracts mean money good or bad.

 

Loyal fans mean money when things aren't good. Wouldn't that be nice now.

 

Loyalty is a two way street especially when you are dealing with a public trust. Baseball like business is a results orientated business. The results the last nine years speak for themselves. With MLB a nine billion dollar industry right now that's really the only thing the Sox don't have to worry about. They are making money rest easy on that score.

 

I have this mental image of JR (like Nero) fiddling while the Sox (like Rome) are burning to the ground... Not a pleseant image on many levels.

 

Mark

Edited October 14, 201510 yr by Lip Man 1

 

There's another way of thinking about it.

 

Here in China, the government has been hyping the "investment" of a home and buying into the stock market for the past 12 months in order to drive economic growth back up.

 

When the people who invested in the stock market lost 20-40% of their money and realized the government couldn't actually control the market and guarantee positive or upward results, they quickly became discouraged and refused to put in any more money, to the point where the government had to create wealth funds to buy down and out companies in order to keep them from cratering further.

 

It's all about "trust." Whether you want to fault the White Sox fans or ownership, the fact of the matter is that the relationship is close to frayed if not broken in many cases.

 

It doesn't matter how many good moves you made on "paper" when the results speak for themselves. As we always say they're no "attendance trophy" with the Cubs, there's also no "best off-season" trophy, either. And, of course, a lot of the moves that the White Sox, Padres and Red Sox made (three of the most active teams) blew up completely in their faces.

 

Is that the fault of the fans, or Robin Ventura, or Buddy Bell, or a series of bad trades/acquisitions....lack of investment in Latin America until the last 2-3 seasons, lack of spending on draft/scouting/player development? Hahn? KW? Dave Wilder? White Flag? Union busting and collusion by JR dating back to the strike?

 

Well, it doesn't really matter at this point. What does matter is that the majority of fans no longer trust the front office to create/develop/implement a winning and/or entertaining product, and that, when you look at opportunity cost or cost/benefit analysis, it's simply not worth it for many fans and their families to attend White Sox games. Luckily for the White Sox, they can survive because of the new media deals as well as the favorable lease agreement, but it's getting pretty close to the point where that's all they will be doing if they don't get to the playoffs or at least compete until the final week of the season in 2017.

Sure, load up the bandwagon.

 

I think we do a disservice to casual fans.

I'll agree with Tex.

 

This idea of "die-hard" fans looking down their noses at or not embracing the importance of the casual/bandwagon fans is something the White Sox simply can't afford to overlook.

 

Sure, there's the tried and true 80/20 rule....that 80% of the revenues (in terms of season tickets/attendance) comes from the same 20% of your fan base. Definitely, the White Sox have their work cut out for them retaining those season ticket holders (especially the ones who dropped out and then bought back in this past off-season) but also doing whatever they can to get fans out to sample the product with the likelihood of basically every Cubs' game next year being a sellout before the season even starts.

 

That means there will be a lot of casual fans who are shut out of the Cubs' ticket market (availability/expense) and the White Sox will have an opportunity to take advantage if they play their cards right in terms of marketing approach.

 

 

God knows how many casual/bandwagon fans were driven away by WSI back in the day. Even here at SoxTalk, we can be pretty tough on newcomers/younger fans...with the internet, sometimes we just don't realize how discouraging it is when you're trying to support your favorite team or simply expressing an interest or asking a question and you get attacked for it. Granted, MOST message boards posters have pretty thick skins, but certainly not all (especially younger fans/teenagers).

Edited October 14, 201510 yr by caulfield12

There's another way of thinking about it.

 

Here in China, the government has been hyping the "investment" of a home and buying into the stock market for the past 12 months in order to drive economic growth back up.

 

When the people who invested in the stock market lost 20-40% of their money and realized the government couldn't actually control the market and guarantee positive or upward results, they quickly became discouraged and refused to put in any more money, to the point where the government had to create wealth funds to buy down and out companies in order to keep them from cratering further.

 

It's all about "trust." Whether you want to fault the White Sox fans or ownership, the fact of the matter is that the relationship is close to frayed if not broken in many cases.

 

It doesn't matter how many good moves you made on "paper" when the results speak for themselves. As we always say they're no "attendance trophy" with the Cubs, there's also no "best off-season" trophy, either. And, of course, a lot of the moves that the White Sox, Padres and Red Sox made (three of the most active teams) blew up completely in their faces.

 

Is that the fault of the fans, or Robin Ventura, or Buddy Bell, or a series of bad trades/acquisitions....lack of investment in Latin America until the last 2-3 seasons, lack of spending on draft/scouting/player development? Hahn? KW? Dave Wilder? White Flag? Union busting and collusion by JR dating back to the strike?

 

Well, it doesn't really matter at this point. What does matter is that the majority of fans no longer trust the front office to create/develop/implement a winning and/or entertaining product, and that, when you look at opportunity cost or cost/benefit analysis, it's simply not worth it for many fans and their families to attend White Sox games. Luckily for the White Sox, they can survive because of the new media deals as well as the favorable lease agreement, but it's getting pretty close to the point where that's all they will be doing if they don't get to the playoffs or at least compete until the final week of the season in 2017.

 

VERY WELL DONE. Especially the last part. Don't see why this is so hard for some to understand.

 

Mark

 

I'll agree with Tex.

 

This idea of "die-hard" fans looking down their noses at or not embracing the importance of the casual/bandwagon fans is something the White Sox simply can't afford to overlook.

 

Sure, there's the tried and true 80/20 rule....that 80% of the revenues (in terms of season tickets/attendance) comes from the same 20% of your fan base. Definitely, the White Sox have their work cut out for them retaining those season ticket holders (especially the ones who dropped out and then bought back in this past off-season) but also doing whatever they can to get fans out to sample the product with the likelihood of basically every Cubs' game next year being a sellout before the season even starts.

 

That means there will be a lot of casual fans who are shut out of the Cubs' ticket market (availability/expense) and the White Sox will have an opportunity to take advantage if they play their cards right in terms of marketing approach.

 

 

God knows how many casual/bandwagon fans were driven away by WSI back in the day. Even here at SoxTalk, we can be pretty tough on newcomers/younger fans...with the internet, sometimes we just don't realize how discouraging it is when you're trying to support your favorite team or simply expressing an interest or asking a question and you get attacked for it. Granted, MOST message boards posters have pretty thick skins, but certainly not all (especially younger fans/teenagers).

 

Great post, but it's too bad this board ridicules people for supporting the Cubs for whatever reason. In reality, we're better off encouraging baseball discussion instead of calling people "f***ing idiots" for being happy for the Cubs. For example:

 

I'm going to come out and say it, but if you claim to be a true Sox fan and are cheering for the Cubs this postseason then you are a f***ing idiot. Our beloved franchise has always been the ugly step-child of the Chicago sports scene and a Cubs World Series victory would make us even more irreverent. Go ahead and come up with some lame excuse on why it's ok to cheer for them, but you are literally rooting against the well-being of your own franchise. There is no good that comes to the Sox from the Cubs winning the World Series, none whatsoever.

 

It's absolutely disgusting how many "Sox fans" I know are jumping on this bandwagon and it's even worse how many members on this site, a forum that is home to some of the most die-hard Sox fans in the world, are pro-Cubs right now.

 

Not only is the post complete garbage (There is enough support from both sides of town to support two successful teams), it's not a good look for the White Sox fanbase and it's not a good look for this board. A number of us love the game and love the White Sox and don't need to justify who we support and what we watch otherwise. I'm here to discuss the White Sox (no matter how abysmal they look) and the rest of baseball with people from similar upbringings and interests. We should not ever question the White Sox fandom of a person because we are not to judge.

Edited October 14, 201510 yr by AustinIllini

Great post, but it's too bad this board ridicules people for supporting the Cubs for whatever reason. In reality, we're better off encouraging baseball discussion instead of calling people "f***ing idiots" for being happy for the Cubs. For example:

 

 

 

Not only is the post complete garbage (There is enough support from both sides of town to support two successful teams), it's not a good look for the White Sox fanbase and it's not a good look for this board. A number of us love the game and love the White Sox and don't need to justify who we support and what we watch otherwise. I'm here to discuss the White Sox (no matter how abysmal they look) and the rest of baseball with people from similar upbringings and interests. We should not ever question the White Sox fandom of a person because we are not to judge.

 

Great post. A moderator here doesn't seem to understand this.

Great post. A moderator here doesn't seem to understand this.

Thanks. The mods have been nothing but fair to me, and I appreciate that. It just makes me sad that being unhappy about the last 9 years of White Sox baseball and the direction of the organization and admiring what the Cubs have done leads to us being called "Cubbie fan", "Cub fan", or "troll".

Edited October 14, 201510 yr by AustinIllini