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QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 11:56 AM)
I was sent a link to the newspaper article online, thats how i found it...i just assumed, having it come from a newspaper, that it was probably okay. Who knows how much is BS and what is fact.

 

It looks like it was in their editorial section, so you always have to read pieces like that with large amounts of skepticism.

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QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 12:56 PM)
I was sent a link to the newspaper article online, thats how i found it...i just assumed, having it come from a newspaper, that it was probably okay. Who knows how much is BS and what is fact.

It's basically a chain mail. In fact, it IS a chain mail. Some of it is true but there is a fair amount of BS in it that I can recognize up front.

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I will make a prediction here, that isn't good. Despite his bad politics, The One will win. Electorial vote wise, it willbe a sizeable victory, but popular vote wise, it will be close. The Obamamaniacs will consider that a 'mandate' and scream for their every agenda to go thru because of the 'mandate' they just saw, not realizing (or caring) that they were in the opposite camp in the last Bush election. Madness and furthur division will ensue, as Republican lawmakers grow tired of the attempted bullying by their Democratic overlords and use every legislative loophole they can to make life difficult for Obama. Of course, the media and Dems will blame every failure on the republicans playing partisian games with the country, even when the Dems get their way and it fails. The economy will tank even more once Obama puts in his protectionist policies and rattles his sabre about NAFTA, business will move out of the country when he gets the EFCA passed and our electric rates will triple when he fines coal plants out of existence without having anything to replace the power they provide. Three years in, facing lowered approval ratings and wanting re-election, Obama shifts away from the more liberal side of his party to try and save the still stagnant economy, pissing off his base, while doing little to appease his critics. Shortly before the elections, new technological advances lend a big boost to the stock market and energy creation, which Obama immediately tries to take credit for. More maddness ensues in the next election.

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Obama's not going to do anything about NAFTA. The entire thing during the Dem primaries was purely a charade designed to siphon votes off Hillary (it didn't really work that well, but well enough).

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QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 01:22 PM)
Obama's not going to do anything about NAFTA. The entire thing during the Dem primaries was purely a charade designed to siphon votes off Hillary (it didn't really work that well, but well enough).

I didn't mean that he actually would Do anythign about it, but it would be brought up, and there will be hearings and stuff on it, and it will scare the hell out of our NAFTA partners to the point that they also make deals elsewhere to cover themselves, just in case. And those will be lost opportunities for US companies, just because of the 'talk'.

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Somebody convince this lifelong Republican why I should continue my streak of voting for Republicans tomorrow. McCain's picking Palin ousted me. I'm still gonna check White Sox fan's name at this moment.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 06:10 PM)
Somebody convince this lifelong Republican why I should continue my streak of voting for Republicans tomorrow. McCain's picking Palin ousted me. I'm still gonna check White Sox fan's name at this moment.

 

Vote on the issues. Who do you think will be a better leader fiscally, and in foreign affairs? Who do you think will back the social issues that matter to you most?

 

I'm an Obama supporter, but I think that voting in what you believe in is important. If you believe that McCain will stand for the things you believe in more, that's who you should vote for.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 05:10 PM)
Somebody convince this lifelong Republican why I should continue my streak of voting for Republicans tomorrow. McCain's picking Palin ousted me. I'm still gonna check White Sox fan's name at this moment.

Because Obama is about the furthest person in the world from a Republican.

 

Palin shouldn't be the reason you don't vote for McCain. But that's up to you.

 

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QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 06:24 PM)
Somehow, it's always ok for Barack to do whatever the f*** he wants and never get questioned.

 

Sometimes the ends DO justify the means.

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QUOTE (longshot7 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 02:11 AM)
I actually know a good deal of R's who aren't voting at all because of Palin. She's a dealbreaker.

I understand the thought. Believe me.

 

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I know a lot of Republicans who don't like her, but she isn't a dealbreaker for them. They still don't like Obama so it's a cross your fingers and hold your nose vote.

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QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 08:34 AM)
I know a lot of Republicans who don't like her, but she isn't a dealbreaker for them. They still don't like Obama so it's a cross your fingers and hold your nose vote.

Yup, I understand that one, really well, too. :lol:

 

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QUOTE (kapkomet @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 09:33 PM)
Palin shouldn't be the reason you don't vote for McCain. But that's up to you.

Unfortunately, I think today a fair few people are going to do exactly the opposite, and it'll end up costing him when it's all said and done.

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QUOTE (kapkomet @ Nov 3, 2008 -> 08:33 PM)
Palin shouldn't be the reason you don't vote for McCain.

I think she'd be a pretty good reason. Care to support your claim that she's NOT a good reason to avoid McCain?

 

Just curious, really.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 11:24 AM)
I think she'd be a pretty good reason. Care to support your claim that she's NOT a good reason to avoid McCain?

 

Just curious, really.

I don't know how old you are and how many elections you have voted for, but seriously, you are voting for the President and his backup. It's like saying you don't like AJ because Hall is his backup. How many elections have you participated in when you even cared about the vp spot? If you don't want to vote for McCain, just say so and stop using Palin as a crutch. If her inexperience bugs you and Obama's doesn't, then your logic is slightly skewed. Just go ahead and put the inexperience right at the top to start, no need to wait for the main guy to drop dead.

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QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 11:49 AM)
I don't know how old you are and how many elections you have voted for, but seriously, you are voting for the President and his backup. It's like saying you don't like AJ because Hall is his backup. How many elections have you participated in when you even cared about the vp spot? If you don't want to vote for McCain, just say so and stop using Palin as a crutch. If her inexperience bugs you and Obama's doesn't, then your logic is slightly skewed. Just go ahead and put the inexperience right at the top to start, no need to wait for the main guy to drop dead.

While I generally agree that the VP is a pretty small part of the decision, its not entirely irrelevant.

 

For one thing, as time has gone on, VP's are more and more part of the decisionmaking processes. They are involved in policy. So, think of the VP as a known part of the cabinet. That does have some importance, though not a ton.

 

This election in particular, I hate to say this, but for BOTH candidates, the possibility of the VP coming to power is higher than normal. McCain due to his age and mileage, Obama because I think he's going to be much higher risk for violence against him. I honestly hope I am wrong on both, and I am not saying the chances are big. Just that they are slim, as opposed to very slim, if you follow me.

 

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QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 11:49 AM)
I don't know how old you are and how many elections you have voted for, but seriously, you are voting for the President and his backup. It's like saying you don't like AJ because Hall is his backup. How many elections have you participated in when you even cared about the vp spot? If you don't want to vote for McCain, just say so and stop using Palin as a crutch. If her inexperience bugs you and Obama's doesn't, then your logic is slightly skewed. Just go ahead and put the inexperience right at the top to start, no need to wait for the main guy to drop dead.

 

For many people it shows McCain's judgment, or lack of, that he picked her. That was his first test at making a presidential decision and he failed miserably...at least in the eyes of Democrats, a majority of Independents and a pretty decent chunk of Republicans. And it's not just experience. It's her complete lack of curiosity of major domestic and international issues.

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 12:55 PM)
For many people it shows McCain's judgment, or lack of, that he picked her. That was his first test at making a presidential decision and he failed miserably...at least in the eyes of Democrats, a majority of Independents and a pretty decent chunk of Republicans. And it's not just experience. It's her complete lack of curiosity of major domestic and international issues.

The decisionmaking process on VP choice was definitely a mark against McCain for some, that's a good point.

 

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 11:53 AM)
While I generally agree that the VP is a pretty small part of the decision, its not entirely irrelevant.

 

For one thing, as time has gone on, VP's are more and more part of the decisionmaking processes. They are involved in policy. So, think of the VP as a known part of the cabinet. That does have some importance, though not a ton.

 

This election in particular, I hate to say this, but for BOTH candidates, the possibility of the VP coming to power is higher than normal. McCain due to his age and mileage, Obama because I think he's going to be much higher risk for violence against him. I honestly hope I am wrong on both, and I am not saying the chances are big. Just that they are slim, as opposed to very slim, if you follow me.

 

Cheney greatly expanded the power of that office. It was the most useless office ever created for a while, but I don't think that is true anymore.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 09:57 AM)
Cheney greatly expanded the power of that office. It was the most useless office ever created for a while, but I don't think that is true anymore.

The reality is though that the VP's power comes largely from how much power/duty the Pres decides to give him or her.

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QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 11:49 AM)
I don't know how old you are and how many elections you have voted for, but seriously, you are voting for the President and his backup. It's like saying you don't like AJ because Hall is his backup. How many elections have you participated in when you even cared about the vp spot? If you don't want to vote for McCain, just say so and stop using Palin as a crutch. If her inexperience bugs you and Obama's doesn't, then your logic is slightly skewed. Just go ahead and put the inexperience right at the top to start, no need to wait for the main guy to drop dead.

Well, it showed a grave mistake by McCain having done little research. I'm 25, this is the second election I've voted in, and the first time I've been passionate about my candidate (Obama, obviously), and Palin being McCain's running mate wouldn't have changed my vote anyway, as I've followed Obama for years.

 

I was just curious why her being McCain's running partner was NOT a reason to decide to vote against McCain. That seemed like quite the sweeping, assuming statement (and it was). The thought of her as VP is ridiculous, it'd be quite the laughing stock.

 

It showed a lack of judgement, a lack of vetting (considering the many issues that came up extremely quickly after the choice), and it felt like a slap in the face of the American people. Then you take into account the fact that McCain's no spring chicken, and I just don't see why it's such a dumbass stance to have changed a vote away from the GOP because of Palin. I thought it was a pretty valid reason. Again, it wasn't my reason, McCain wasn't getting my vote regardless.

 

EDIT: It's got nothing to do with her inexperience, it's got to do a whole hell of a lot with the reason she was chosen (Hillary backers, something to rejuvenate the GOP, her lack of knowledge about many topics that are at the forefront of this election... and the fact that she's one seat from the f***ing Oval Office).

Edited by Steve9347

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This whole argument should end with the following:

 

IF Obama had picked Ayers as his running mate would people be allowed to decide not to vote for Obama due to his VP selection?

 

The answer to the question is obviously yes, the choice of VP matters for many different reasons. Palin is supposed to be 2nd in charge, and while not as important as 1st in charge it often times can be what tips the scales. If Obama and McCain are even in your mind, then the next important thing would probably be who is VP and what type of ideals do they support and why would the President choose them.

 

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She outdraws Biden and McCain at rallys, but it was a slap in the face to the American people? presidents pick vp's usually to offset somethig they are not good at or experienced at. Obama took Biden for his supposed 'gravitas' at whatever it is he is supposed to be good at. About the only thing he seems good at is inserting his foot into his mouth. McCain took palin because she is younger (to counter his claims of being too old to be in touch) and because she compliments his 'maverick' image. Nitpik all you want but she has taken on corruption in the party before, and that plays well with alot of people. So its a bad thing that Mccain took Palin because she was a woman? Give me a break. Was it a bad thing that Obama took Biden because he was white? There are several other black politicians he could have chose. or Hispanic. They each chose someone opposite of themselves. Mccain gets s*** on for his pick, while Obama is praised for his pick. All i am saying is that if palin is the tipping point in you voting against McCain, you were going to do that anyway and are just using her as an excuse.

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