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Chicago @ Tampa Bay ALDS Game 2

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QUOTE (Sox It To Em @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:53 PM)
I'm not a fan of Vazquez, but trading him would create a huge hole. I don't think he'll be dealt, especially because his value is currently quite low. I could be wrong though.

 

 

One man's junk is anothers treasure. Maybe someone thinks they can 'reform' him to have a heart.

 

If we deal Vazquez we obviously need a SP to take his place...thing is, I believe there are TONS who can give AT LEAST what Javy gives...mediocrity. The league is full of that. So my view is...find a mediocre pitcher for a fraction of Javy's take home and pull in a couple young guns in trade, let Coop sprinkle magic dust on their arm and see where it takes us.

 

I still contend WE MUST move into 2009 MINUS Javy.

 

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I say we bring back Vance Law at 3B and Chi Chi Rodriguez as defensive specialist at the hot corner.

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QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:34 PM)
Here's a huge problem -- 1-5 in the lineup was 9-22, 2BB, 1HBP.......with only ONE run batted in. They're slow and unable to muster hits at the right moment. If Konerko Dye or Thome are on first base we're going to need two more hits (i wont acknowledge a 3B) or HR. One of those three just have to move. Enough of these guys who are exactly the same type of player with too little speed and too much age.

 

^^ This.

 

Who, on the White Sox roster, has even AVERAGE speed? Nevermind GOOD speed. We have noone with good speed, compared to everyone else in the MLB.

 

Alexei Ramirez.....Orlando Cabrera....maybe Swisher?

 

The rest of the lineup isn't just average, or below average....they're some of the SLOWEST players in the league. Our entire lineup is a beer league softball team... not baseball players.

 

AJ....slow.

PK....slow.

JD....slow

Thome....slow.

Uribe...slow.

KG...slow.

 

We have a bunch of plodding, over the hill, softball players, that just go up to the plate every at bat, hoping to hit a home run. With the speed we have, that's really the only way we're scoring, so I can't say I blame them.

 

We need to replace three of our starting lineup with guys that have, at the VERY LEAST, average speed.

 

We need a leadoff hitter. We need a speedy right fielder(JD is too old and slow to play RF, I'm sorry, he just is). We need a second baseman. We need a third baseman. We need a center fielder. If ANY of those positions are filled by slow, plodding assclowns like we have this year, we'll be no better off next year.

 

 

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QUOTE (CQMVP @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 09:11 PM)
Who, on the White Sox roster, has even AVERAGE speed? Nevermind GOOD speed. We have noone with good speed, compared to everyone else in the MLB.

 

Alexei Ramirez.....Orlando Cabrera....maybe Swisher?

If Swisher has good speed, I haven't seen it.

 

I heard so much about his passion for baseball and the way he hustles, and I didn't see it this year.

 

Hopefully he hits .250 with his normal .350-.365 OBP next year.

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QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:51 PM)
Good, then that means we can deal him. Mark my words, he's history.

+5 excellent, sir.

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QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 07:40 PM)
I never said he was bad. But he isn't a good HITTER. He is a good all around offensive player because of his good eye, not because he rips singles all over the park.
Semantics. Dunn doesn't hit for average, but he does everything else. Add in hitting for average, and you start talking a hall of fame caliber player. That's an awfully high benchmark.

 

So, based on that, do you think a player who ONLY hits for average is better, or something? You really aren't making any sense.

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QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:14 PM)
If Swisher has good speed, I haven't seen it.

 

I heard so much about his passion for baseball and the way he hustles, and I didn't see it this year.

 

Hopefully he hits .250 with his normal .350-.365 OBP next year.

Someone needs to reintroduce him to HGH, because the Swisher I'm seeing is terrible. He'll probably be out of baseball before a legitimate, urine based test for HGH is discovered anyways.

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QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:53 PM)
In short, I dont think we could get a deal done for Mora + Roberts...in fact, I dont know that we could land Roberts, much as Id love to have him.

Mora and Roberts are the O's two most popular players to their fans (Markakis is coming on) and Angelos doesn't allow his fan favorites to get traded, period. I'd love having both on the Sox, they are GREAT fits, but it's not going to happen.

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QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 09:14 PM)
If Swisher has good speed, I haven't seen it.

 

I heard so much about his passion for baseball and the way he hustles, and I didn't see it this year.

 

Hopefully he hits .250 with his normal .350-.365 OBP next year.

 

He certainly doesn't have good speed. I said he MIGHT have average speed. lol

 

That's ok... Swisher can play 1B next year, and we can move PK to DH. Then we can move Dye in the offseason for a speedy lead-off hitter, and hopefully move Thome as well. Or move PK and Dye for some quality speed, and keep Thome at DH.

 

Honestly, if this team is going to go ANYWHERE, I really think 2/3 of PK, Thome, or Dye need to be moved... They are rally killers in the middle of our lineup, with their lack of speed, and their tendencies to hit into the DP. CQ and one of those guys batting 3/4 would be just fine... We can't try to be successful with 3 cleanup-type hitters, that couldn't score from first on a triple if their life depended on it, any more. They are just way, way, way too slow.

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QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:18 PM)
Semantics. Dunn doesn't hit for average, but he does everything else. Add in hitting for average, and you start talking a hall of fame caliber player. That's an awfully high benchmark.

 

So, based on that, do you think a player who ONLY hits for average is better, or something? You really aren't making any sense.

Of course I am.

 

A guy who hits 40 HR, 75% of his hits are XBH, and has a great OBP is a great offensive player. But getting a hit 23% of the time isn't exactly a great hitter.

 

And no, you don't have to hit for great average in my world and mix in 30 HR to be a great offensive player, but I don't think hitting .265-.280 is too much to ask for especially with someone who can hit a baseball 430 feet.

 

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:19 PM)
Mora and Roberts are the O's two most popular players to their fans (Markakis is coming on) and Angelos doesn't allow his fan favorites to get traded, period. I'd love having both on the Sox, they are GREAT fits, but it's not going to happen.

With Jones and Markakis, they are okay for the future in terms of offense. I think Roberts is in his 30's somewhere and they won't be winning anytime soon. If they can trade him for a young, good looking SP and an already good, MLB proven, young SP I think they'd do it. Angelos may not want to trade popular players, but I think he would if it meant building a powerhouse in the future.

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QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:38 PM)
So basically, what it comes down to in your world, is if Adam Dunn added 20 soft singles to his 2008 season, he would be a great hitter?

Well no, because 20 soft (or hard) hit singles would only bring his BA up to about .240.

 

I said .265-.280.

 

I just don't think that is too much to ask for from a professional player.

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What a piss poor 2 games at Tampa Bay. Nice job of wasting 12 hits today, my god. What bugs me is we had the bags full and nobody out in the first and got 2 runs. With some clutch hitting we actually could have put a major dent in the game and with Mark going probably would have won the game. At 1-1 we'd all be excited. Now it's a prayer. Our only hope is we again have that magic at home. Very disappointing loss today.

 

Answer me this: Am I anal or is anybody else mad we didn't score OC from second on the single in the first? I know we got two whole runs, but I think OC chugging in from second might have made us a bit more aggressive in trying to knock out Kasmir early. Am I a moron and should this idea leave my brain immediately? Or was anybody else perturbed by this?

Edited by greg775

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You guys are making me smile with your arguing. Funny stuff on a not so funny evening.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 4, 2008 -> 02:52 AM)
Answer me this: Am I anal or is anybody else mad we didn't score OC from second on the single in the first? I know we got two whole runs, but I think OC chugging in from second might have made us a bit more aggressive in trying to knock out Kasmir early. Am I a moron and should this idea leave my brain immediately? Or was anybody else perturbed by this?

 

His ankle was bothering him, and you can't risk making the first out at home.

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I forgot about the ankle. So case closed on that. Harold Reynolds, who I like, I don't think even mentioned that. He was moaning about the station to station baseball or not moaning but pointing it out. That's a good point about the ankle. 2 runs sucked in the first. At one point I thought we might just get one.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 09:55 PM)
You need to work on your math skills, along with your baseball IQ.

 

Adam Dunn had 517 AB's this year, with 122 Hits. If he got 20 more soft, looping singles, that would bring his total up to 142 Hits.

 

142 hits over 517 AB's gives you a .275 batting average for the season.

I didn't bother to look up how many hits and ABs he had, so this really has nothing to do with my baseball IQ, but my math.

 

So yes, then he would be a great hitter, because 40 HR and a .275 BA probably puts his OBP about 20-30 points higher, which makes him an even better offensive player.

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Except for the dumb lead on the Sox fans hating the Cubs you can't argue with Morrissey's take on the Game Two bummer:

 

Missed opportunities piling up, putting White Sox on their heels

By Rick Morrissey

Chicago Tribune

(MCT)

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — The way things are going, White Sox fans soon will be able to fall back on their natural pastime: the intense enjoyment of watching the Cubs fall apart.

That might seem perverse to outsiders, but outsiders don’t know the depth of emotion involving the two teams in Chicago. And they might not know that the Sox couldn’t get a hit these days if you spotted them a ball, a tee and a few blindfolded fielders.

When the opposing pitcher throws 37 pitches in the first inning, when you have bases loaded with no outs in that inning and all you have to show for it is a 2-0 lead and vague feelings of yearning, you know you’re in trouble.

The Sox left 12 men on base in a 6-2 playoff loss to the Rays on Friday. Paul Konerko popped out to the second baseman with the bases loaded in the first inning and to the shortstop with two on in the second.

Rays starter Scott Kazmir was on pace for something like a million pitches. He hit the leadoff batter, walked the second and gave up a single to the third. No outs, the bases jammed and all the Sox got out of it was a two-run lead and not even a stupid T-shirt.

“We could have gotten five or six runs,” catcher A.J. Pierzynski said.

There was a very palpable feeling inside Tropicana Field that the missed opportunities were going to come back and bite the Sox in the posterior. This being baseball, there was a statistical basis for that feeling. In the regular season, the Rays won an American League-high 28 games in which they trailed by at least two runs.

So you can make that 29, counting playoffs. But coming back against the Sox on Friday was like coming back against the targets at an FBI firing range.

The Sox can question the eyesight of home plate umpire C.B. Bucknor, perhaps with good reason, but that doesn’t excuse them for what they did in the eighth inning. Juan Uribe, Brian Anderson and Nick Swisher all struck out looking with their team down 3-2. That’s death by silence. Not a very satisfying way to go.

“I remember Rod Carew telling me that if you want to get a hit, you have to swing the bat,” manager Ozzie Guillen said.

Rod Carew: baseball savant.

Go ahead and feel bad that the Sox were without their best hitter, Carlos Quentin, who has a broken wrist. But know that the Rays played the first two games of this series without their leader in home runs and runs batted in, Carlos Pena, who has a scratched cornea.

So now the Sox are down 2-0 in this best-of-five AL Division Series, and it’s going to take a huge effort to turn it around.

It doesn’t feel nearly as deep as the dark hole the Cubs find themselves in against the Dodgers, but it’s grim. The Cubs are fighting things like nerves, history and, well, nerves and history.

The Sox can’t seem to put together hitting and pitching in the same game. In Game 1, starter Javier Vazquez gave it away. In Game 2, Mark Buehrle pitched well enough to win, but help never arrived.

The Sox are having a devil of a time with a Rays team that isn’t overwhelmingly talented. Ninety-seven regular-season victories would seem to denote dominance, but that hasn’t been on display in the first two games of this playoff series. The Rays have been remarkably unremarkable.

“Sort of the same thing with us in ’05,” Buehrle said of the Sox’s World Series season. “... They have good pitching and defense, and they have guys who get on base and run. They don’t have many big power guys who hit home runs, but they have guys who know how to win.”

The Trop is loud, the way domed ballparks usually are, and the sound of thousands of cowbells ringing makes you feel like you’re at a convention of bad ’70s bands. But that doesn’t explain the Sox problems here.

They just haven’t played well.

Now John Danks, who was stellar in the division clincher against the Twins earlier in the week, gets a chance to save the day and the season for the Sox. He says he’s riding a huge wave of confidence. After an eight-inning, two-hit effort against Minnesota, he should be.

One thing you can say about the Sox that you can’t say about a certain North Side team right now is that they aren’t playing scared. That should count for something Sunday in Game 3.

“We’ve had our backs against the wall recently,” Konerko said. “Within the last week, we played three or four games where we knew if we lost, our season was over. That’s about the only positive I can say.”

OK, so they know what a must-win game feels like. It sure would have been easier if they had just won a game they didn’t absolutely have to win.

But how much fun is that?

And Sox fans reply: Not nearly as much fun as an epic Cubs meltdown.

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If you would have read the earlier posts, everyone but one person was saying there shouldn't be a fire sale. And yes, I would trade Quentin for Lincecum. Lincecum is one of the best young pitchers this decade, and Quentin just can't seem to avoid the injury bug. I'm Quentin's biggest fan (hell, I want to name my first kid Quentin), but yes, I would take Manny in LF if it meant adding Lincecum.

 

I honestly know nothing about Lincecum, but he must be a yearly proven Cy Young looking guy if you're serious about him. Seriously, give me some back info on Lincecum.

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