1/3 of the way through the season

[southsider2k5]

So we have made it through 54 of the 162 games, 108 more to go. I figured I would do my usual grade the players thread today. Go ahead throw your grades out there if you like. For my scale, expectations are a part of the final grade. Players who have higher expectations are graded harder than ones who don't.

 

The A's

Paul Konerko-What can be said?

Chris Sale-Ditto Konerko

AlejandroDe Aza-Has kept up his call up numbers for two full months now

AJ Pierz-Has had a great offensive year, and his Sb against numbers have done a 180. Teams aren't really trying to run anymore

Nate Jones-Incredible year so far, could be in closer conversation if Reed falters at all.

Jake Peavy- nice to finally see JFP. BAA is barely above .200, averaging almost 9k/9

 

 

The B's

Alex Rios- Real nice bounceback so far. Many clutch hits, playing a great RF, and even power is coming back

Dayan Viciedo-Very slow start, and a big hot streak lately. Still scary defensively

Jesse Crain- Jones has bumped him down to the #2 set up guy, but still having a very Crain season, despite nagging injury issues.

 

 

The C's

Adam Dunn- Nice to see the power numbers rebound, but the guy is on pace for 264 K's and average is back into the .220's

Tyler Flowers, could easily rate lower, but has had very little playing time

Eduardo Escobar- Maybe should be lower, but hasn't had much playing time, has played well defensively whereever put, and I didn't have much in the way of offensive expectations anyway.

Hector Santiago- Wasn't cut out to be a closer, but doing well in spot relief duty.

Zach Stewart- Has filled in solidly in long relief and sporadic work. BAA is pretty high, but ERA is league average or better.

Addison Reed- Closing work has been outstanding. Has had a couple of very high profile blow ups. ERA is still almost 5, and WHIP is higher than you want to see.

 

The D's

Gordon Beckham- Awful start, has started to rebound, close to a C because of defense

Alexei Ramirez- Has been awful at the plate pretty much all year, still very good defensively

Brent Lillibridge- another who hasn't played much, hasn't hit much and has 21Ks in 48 ABs

Matt Thornton-Hasn't been quite right this year, but getting better. K/9 is way down.

Phil Humber- Outside of perfect has had a pretty bad year.]

Will Ohman- Peripherals look great, but has had some spectacular fails pitching to anything but lefties.

 

The F's

Kouske Fukodome-has done nothing so far this year.

John Danks-Has had a miserable year so far, velocity is way down, hopefully it was injury related.

Gavin Floyd- Super inconsistent this year. Great or awful, unfortunately awful has won out most of the season.

 

The Incomplete's

Brent Morel- Would be an F, but I want to see him and see if his back is better.

Orland Hudson trainwreck so far offensively, though does work the count. really re-learneding 3B

Jose Quintana- Would be an A, but only a few chances so far.

Dylan Axelrod- Has been solid in his brief work with the big squad.

Eric Stults-He GAWN!

[Greg Hibbard]

Great idea for a thread - this should be fun. Most of your grades I'd agree with.

 

However, Adam Dunn is at least a B with an OPS of .921. Batting average is not a good metric to evaluate him on, based on his composition as a batter, nor are strikeouts in a vacuum. His walks and homers needs to essentially more than make up for his strikeouts and batting average, and thus far they absolutley have.

[LittleHurt05]

Great idea for a thread - this should be fun. Most of your grades I'd agree with.

 

However, Adam Dunn is at least a B with an OPS of .921. Batting average is not a good metric to evaluate him on, based on his composition as a batter, nor are strikeouts in a vacuum. His walks and homers needs to essentially more than make up for his strikeouts and batting average, and thus far they absolutley have.

 

This is exactly what I was gonna post. He is 9th in the AL in OPS and on pace for 51 HRs & 114 RBI. When you signed him, he knew he struck out a lot & his BA wouldn't be high, so it's not like it's surprise. The K's & average could drop him to a B, but no lower than that.

[iamshack]

So we have made it through 54 of the 162 games, 108 more to go. I figured I would do my usual grade the players thread today. Go ahead throw your grades out there if you like. For my scale, expectations are a part of the final grade. Players who have higher expectations are graded harder than ones who don't.

 

The A's

Paul Konerko-What can be said?

Chris Sale-Ditto Konerko

AlejandroDe Aza-Has kept up his call up numbers for two full months now

AJ Pierz-Has had a great offensive year, and his Sb against numbers have done a 180. Teams aren't really trying to run anymore

Nate Jones-Incredible year so far, could be in closer conversation if Reed falters at all.

Jake Peavy- nice to finally see JFP. BAA is barely above .200, averaging almost 9k/9

 

 

The B's

Alex Rios- Real nice bounceback so far. Many clutch hits, playing a great RF, and even power is coming back

Dayan Viciedo-Very slow start, and a big hot streak lately. Still scary defensively

Jesse Crain- Jones has bumped him down to the #2 set up guy, but still having a very Crain season, despite nagging injury issues.

 

 

The C's

Adam Dunn- Nice to see the power numbers rebound, but the guy is on pace for 264 K's and average is back into the .220's

Tyler Flowers, could easily rate lower, but has had very little playing time

Eduardo Escobar- Maybe should be lower, but hasn't had much playing time, has played well defensively whereever put, and I didn't have much in the way of offensive expectations anyway.

Hector Santiago- Wasn't cut out to be a closer, but doing well in spot relief duty.

Zach Stewart- Has filled in solidly in long relief and sporadic work. BAA is pretty high, but ERA is league average or better.

Addison Reed- Closing work has been outstanding. Has had a couple of very high profile blow ups. ERA is still almost 5, and WHIP is higher than you want to see.

 

The D's

Gordon Beckham- Awful start, has started to rebound, close to a C because of defense

Alexei Ramirez- Has been awful at the plate pretty much all year, still very good defensively

Brent Lillibridge- another who hasn't played much, hasn't hit much and has 21Ks in 48 ABs

Matt Thornton-Hasn't been quite right this year, but getting better. K/9 is way down.

Phil Humber- Outside of perfect has had a pretty bad year.]

Will Ohman- Peripherals look great, but has had some spectacular fails pitching to anything but lefties.

 

The F's

Kouske Fukodome-has done nothing so far this year.

John Danks-Has had a miserable year so far, velocity is way down, hopefully it was injury related.

Gavin Floyd- Super inconsistent this year. Great or awful, unfortunately awful has won out most of the season.

 

The Incomplete's

Brent Morel- Would be an F, but I want to see him and see if his back is better.

Orland Hudson trainwreck so far offensively, though does work the count. really re-learneding 3B

Jose Quintana- Would be an A, but only a few chances so far.

Dylan Axelrod- Has been solid in his brief work with the big squad.

Eric Stults-He GAWN!

Wow, that seems a bit critical of Dunn and Gordo....

You expected Dunn to hit a lot BETTER than this? I agree we'd like to see him be in the .250-.260 range, but he's on pace to hit 50 home runs and knock in 118 runs...PK is on pace to hit 33 home runs and knock in 100 runs...granted, PK has been great this year, but an A while Dunn is a C? I have a really hard time with that...something has to be said for Adam's run production...to me, he's at least a B+ and that's only because he's been struggling a bit the last 5-10 games.

Gordo has started slow, but the 8 home runs and the sterling defense are worth more than a D...I'd have given him a B-...he certainly needs to be better than a .700 OPS player with his talent, but he's been hitting the ball hard for a month now with not as much to show for it as he probably should have.

 

IMO, De Aza is my MVP through the first 54 games.

[Steve9347]

Great idea for a thread - this should be fun. Most of your grades I'd agree with.

 

However, Adam Dunn is at least a B with an OPS of .921. Batting average is not a good metric to evaluate him on, based on his composition as a batter, nor are strikeouts in a vacuum. His walks and homers needs to essentially more than make up for his strikeouts and batting average, and thus far they absolutley have.

Adam Dunn is an A.

[caulfield12]

Did you really expect Gordon Beckham to have a 700+ OPS at this point in the season?

I'd give him a B or B-, at worst, taking into consideration his defense, especially. If you throw in that homer against the Angeles that Vernon Wells robbed, he'd be sitting in the 725 range, which isn't far off from 2009. I don't think you can realistically "expect" 800+ OPS numbers out of Gordon, but anything in the 725-750 range is great and we'll take it and run with it.

 

Dunn is B/B- as well, particularly when you take into consideration very very uncertain expectations. We always knew he was going to K a lot, but he's won a number of key games for us, he's earned his money so far this year. If Rios is a B, then Dunn has to be one as well because Dunn is killing Rios in the OPS department.

 

Humber should be a C or at worst a C-, because, once again, expectations couldn't have been THAT great, particularly because of the way he faded down the stretch in 2011.

 

Assuming Danks has been injured, he probably deserves a C-. Nobody expected him to be a #1 starter, he's being paid like a #2, but that's not completely on Danks, nobody forced KW to give him that type of money. With his velocity down by 2 MPH, you had to feel there was something wrong and that he was trying to pitch through it. Maybe an incomplete and we'll see much better results when he's 100% (hopefully).

 

And you're being too hard on Wil Ohman...if Stewart's a C, then Ohman definitely has to be, because he's being used incorrectly against RHBers and not primarily as a LOOGY.

Edited June 4, 2012 by caulfield12

[Greg Hibbard]

I would say Beckham is probably a C+ at this point as well. If he hits 20 homers this season, I'll be ecstatic, and he's on pace for 24. Still the BA is not where you want it.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Greg Hibbard

[southsider2k5]

I get what is being said about Dunn's homers, but those are being balanced out by his non-2011 career low batting average and his 88 strikeouts in 54 games. That is insanity. That would put him about 70 higher than his previous career high. Add in the fact that he gives you nothing defensively (if not hurts you), and I am pretty content with where I put him.

 

Gordo I wrestled with putting higher, but settled there because the offense hasn't been there most of the season.

 

Ohman is being used more against lefties than pretty much any point in his career, and has had some just awful outings. He deserves his F.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I would say Beckham is probably a C+ at this point as well. If he hits 20 homers this season, I'll be ecstatic, and he's on pace for 24. Still the BA is not where you want it.

 

 

If we did this a week ago, Dunn's definitely closer to an A and Beckham's a clear C/D.

 

Using the expectations card again, and not comparing him to the "potential" he showed in 2009 and some of 2010, you'd have to be ecstatic (well, maybe that's not QUITE the right word) very pleased with his results and upward trendline since his insertion into the 2 spot.

 

But clearly the assumption would be that Beckham ends up at least in that .260-.280 range by season's end.

 

 

[iamshack]

I get what is being said about Dunn's homers, but those are being balanced out by his non-2011 career low batting average and his 88 strikeouts in 54 games. That is insanity. That would put him about 70 higher than his previous career high. Add in the fact that he gives you nothing defensively (if not hurts you), and I am pretty content with where I put him.

 

Gordo I wrestled with putting higher, but settled there because the offense hasn't been there most of the season.

 

Ohman is being used more against lefties than pretty much any point in his career, and has had some just awful outings. He deserves his F.

Who cares how many times he K's? He's doing everything and more that you brought him here to do...hit big home runs and drive in runs...at least by striking out all those times he's not grounding into double plays. You're just not going to convince me that a guy with a .375 OBP and a slugging percentage of .545 is a "C" offensive player.

 

That's nuts.

 

And he gives you nothing defensively? I think he's been quite solid in the field.

 

For all the accolades PK gets defensively, has he really been that much better than Dunn this year?

Edited June 4, 2012 by iamshack

[southsider2k5]

Who cares how many times he K's? He's doing everything and more that you brought him here to do...hit big home runs and drive in runs...at least by striking out all those times he's not grounding into double plays. You're just not going to convince me that a guy with a .375 OBP and a slugging percentage of .545 is a "C" offensive player.

 

That's nuts.

 

And he gives you nothing defensively? I think he's been quite solid in the field.

 

For all the accolades PK gets defensively, has he really been that much better than Dunn this year?

 

I do. Those are worthless AB's and they are coming at a way higher rate than any year but 2011.

[cabiness42]

Position Players:

A+ Konerko

A Dunn, AJ

A- DeAza

B+ Viciedo, Rios

B Flowers

C- Beckham, Hudson

D+ Ramirez

D Escobar, Fukudome, Lillibridge

F Morel

 

Pitchers:

A+ Sale

A Crain, Jones, Peavy, Quintana

B Reed, Santiago, Thornton

C Humber, Stewart

D Danks, Floyd, Ohman

[iamshack]

I do. Those are worthless AB's and they are coming at a way higher rate than any year but 2011.

Well it seems incredibly odd to me that you would weigh them so heavily compared to his run production.

 

If Adam Dunn hits 50 home runs and drives in 115, I am sure he will be in the MVP discussion...not the "this guy is a C+" discussion.

Edited June 4, 2012 by iamshack

[Reddy]

I do. Those are worthless AB's and they are coming at a way higher rate than any year but 2011.

lol ridiculous.

 

his OPS is over .900 - that means he's absurdly valuable. K's are better than GIDP aren't they? I don't care if he breaks his own strikeout record as long as he hits 30+ homers and walks 100 times. and he's going to do that. learn baseball.

[caulfield12]

Konerko is the beloved franchise hero.

 

Dunn was nearly booed out of the city last year and has the "Thome" tag around him...no matter what he does offensively, everyone will always focus on his K's. I don't think anyone is wishing we had Kotsay/Andruw Jones as our DH again.

 

For as bad as Alex Rios has been for MOST of his time here, that he's putting up "decent" numbers (at least coming somewhat closer to earning what he's being paid, compared to 2009 and 2011) and is rewarded with a B, I'm just not getting that newfound love for him.

Edited June 4, 2012 by caulfield12

[SoxAce]

K's are better than GIDP aren't they?

 

Bingo.

[southsider2k5]

Well it seems incredibly odd to me that you would weigh them so heavily compared to his run productions.

 

If Adam Dunn hits 50 home runs and drives in 115, I am sure he will be in the MVP discussion...not the "this guy is a C+" discussion.

 

If he is hitting .220, he is no where near MVP discussion. The lowest AL MVP in history was .269, and that is the year Maris hit 61 homers.

 

There hasn't been an AL MVP under the high .290s since the 60's with the higher mound.

[iamshack]

If he is hitting .220, he is no where near MVP discussion. The lowest AL MVP in history was .269, and that is the year Maris hit 61 homers.

 

There hasn't been an AL MVP under the high .290s since the 60's with the higher mound.

And throughout the history of the award, there has been a ridiculously high degree of weight put on batting average instead of OBP.

 

Compare his OBP to the last 20 AL MVP's if you must.

 

And for the record, I'm not saying Dunn would or should win the MVP, just that he'd be a hell of a lot closer to that discussion than to the "he's an average player" discussion you are advocating.

[southsider2k5]

lol ridiculous.

 

his OPS is over .900 - that means he's absurdly valuable. K's are better than GIDP aren't they? I don't care if he breaks his own strikeout record as long as he hits 30+ homers and walks 100 times. and he's going to do that. learn baseball.

 

And they are worse than moving the runner over by making some sort of contact. The thing is we aren't even talking about his usual 175 to 200Ks. We are talking closer to 300 Ks, which is ridiculous. His pace would break the all time K record by over 40.

[Eminor3rd]

I do. Those are worthless AB's and they are coming at a way higher rate than any year but 2011.

 

He's also walking at a career high rate. His .391 wOBA is in the neighborhood of his career highs, and his 146 wRC+ is among the league leaders. Outs are outs, and K's are better than GIDPs -- and the guy is getting on base at a .376 clip. He's leading the non-Hamilton AL in homeruns. He's having an A year, no doubt, and ESPECIALLY if you consider Rios' season a B.

[southsider2k5]

And throughout the history of the award, there has been a ridiculously high degree of weight put on batting average instead of OBP.

 

Compare his OBP to the last 20 AL MVP's if you must.

 

And for the record, I'm not saying Dunn would or should win the MVP, just that he'd be a hell of a lot closer to that discussion than to the "he's an average player" discussion you are advocating.

 

Try reading the first post in the thread again. I never said he was an average player.

[iamshack]

Try reading the first post in the thread again. I never said he was an average player.

Ok, fine, a "C" player.

 

I consider that to be average.

[LittleHurt05]

Starting Lineup-

 

AJP - A (great offensive start & actually throwing runners out!)

Paulie - A (NEVER FORGET!)

Beckham - B- (April sucked, been a huge part of recent hot streak though)

Alexei - D+ (Always starts slow, but it's June now, time to wake up)

Morel - F (I know his back was hurt, but did nothing to add from last September's momentum)

Rios - C+ (Still a disappointment, but he is contributing)

ADA - A+ (Enough said)

Tank - B+ (Defense is still scary, had a pretty slow start too)

Dunn - A- (Striking out a bit too much, but 9th in OPS, on pace for 51 homers)

 

Bench:

Flowers - B

Fukudome - F

Lillibridge - D (playing time has been sporadic, but nothing like last year)

Hudson - D (some bad defensive plays, being better on offense than Morel doesn't mean much)

Escobar - ? (who cares)

 

Starting Rotation:

Sale - A+

Danks - F (Way to show up after signing a big contract)

Floyd - C (Outstanding April, awful May)

Peavy - A- (Those two bad innings vs. DET & CLE drop him from an A)

Humber - B- (That perfect game really helps his score)

Quintana - B (Good job stepping in so far and getting Hawk riled up)

 

Bullpen:

Reed: - A- (other than two non-save situations, he has been lights out)

Jones - A (Heat!)

Santiago - C+ (Those early blown saves hurt, but has been solid otherwise)

Thornton - C (numbers aren't awful, but has given up some big hits)

Crain - B+

Stewart - C

Ohman - B- (ERA is ugly, but LHBs have a .424 OPS against him)

 

Manager:

Robin - B+ (He has the team playing well & having fun. The rookie mistakes while he learns on the job have him down a bit lower)

Edited June 4, 2012 by LittleHurt05

[southsider2k5]

Ok, fine, a "C" player.

 

I consider that to be average.

 

To his expectations...

[cabiness42]

If he is hitting .220, he is no where near MVP discussion. The lowest AL MVP in history was .269, and that is the year Maris hit 61 homers.

 

There hasn't been an AL MVP under the high .290s since the 60's with the higher mound.

 

Adam Dunn is clearly a unique player. No other player has such a high walk rate and ISO rate to be able to have a batting average of .220 yet an OPS over .920.

 

That said, it will take an OPS much higher than .920 to win AL MVP, and his average will have to get up to at least .240-.250 in order to get his OPS up high enough for MVP consideration.

 

Still, if Dunn's final slash line for the season is similar to the .222/.376/.545 it is now, I'll be thrilled.