Texas Gov: We May Need to Secede

[lostfan]

Based on previous standards, I don't think the issue is the U.S. helping the newly independent Texas Republic against Mexico...I think Texas will be having enough problems with that pesky U.S. army when it follows the logic that President Lincoln used. They may be asking the Mexicans for some help in that defense.

Texas is a different situation though.

[lostfan]

I'm from Indiana, I can't look down on anyone!

Mississippi and Louisiana.

[southsider2k5]

Based on previous standards, I don't think the issue is the U.S. helping the newly independent Texas Republic against Mexico...I think Texas will be having enough problems with that pesky U.S. army when it follows the logic that President Lincoln used. They may be asking the Mexicans for some help in that defense.

 

All they would have to do is hold the nukes they have hostage, make some outrageous demands, and they are all set!

[Balta1701]

All they would have to do is hold the nukes they have hostage, make some outrageous demands, and they are all set!

First of all, does Texas actually hold any nuclear weapons? Yes, the U.S. has a lot of them, but only the ICBM's are stuck in fixed positions, and I'm fairly certain none of the remaining active sites are in Texas (Not the best location for launching against Russia, in particular). Second, any mobile ones would be held by the military, and if things came to a head, they're going to move them out before anything like that can happen. And third, if they don't move them out, then the Texans would have to take them off of the military base by force and then activate them (think Fort Sumter except the U.S. side is slightly better armed).

[Balta1701]

Texas is a different situation though.

Do tell?

[lostfan]

Do tell?

I don't recall the exact verbiage but they were an independent republic before joining the Union and some legal document somewhere says they are a state, but only as long as they consent. Which is why you hear them talking about secession all the time but no other states do.

[Balta1701]

I don't recall the exact verbiage but they were an independent republic before joining the Union and some legal document somewhere says they are a state, but only as long as they consent. Which is why you hear them talking about secession all the time but no other states do.

But, they were a state prior to the Civil War. Lincoln used some fairly tortured logic as a method of justifying the fact that he could use the military to prevent states from secession, and that logic has yet to be overturned. Hell, Texas Seceded once and was brought back in to the union by use of force.

[kapkomet]

Texas is the only state to have a clause in their acceptance into the US that would allow them succession rights if they were chosen to be enacted upon. At the time, Texas was much bigger then it is now, the agreement allowed Texas to be broken into four states and those four states would become the Republic of Texas.

 

It's not going to happen, but it makes me laugh that the real underlying issue of all of this is just dismissed and now, of course, anyone who disagrees with the Almighty Obama is a nutjob.

 

Furthermore, it is funny seeing the coverage of all of this. The demonstrations are "nutjob, racists, homophobes, extreme ideology... ... ... ... ..." The coverage from what I see is "who", not "why" this was going on. Imagine that.

Edited April 16, 2009 by kapkomet

[Balta1701]

Texas is the only state to have a clause in their acceptance into the US that would allow them succession rights if they were chosen to be enacted upon. At the time, Texas was much bigger then it is now, the agreement allowed Texas to be broken into four states and those four states would become the Republic of Texas.

 

It's not going to happen, but it makes me laugh that the real underlying issue of all of this is just dismissed and now, of course, anyone who disagrees with the Almighty Obama is a nutjob.

 

Furthermore, it is funny seeing the coverage of all of this. The demonstrations are "nutjob, racists, homophobes, extreme ideology... ... ... ... ..."

It's not the disagreeing with Obama that makes you a nutjob any more than disagreeing with Bush made you an America-hating terrorist hugging nutjob. It's the fact that there's a lot of nutjobs actually doing it. They're doing things like, threatening secession if the tax rate climbs 4 percentage points.

 

In terms of the demonstrations being labeled as crazy people...well, there's a reason why. It's the same reason why a lot of the 2003 demonstrations were labeled as crazy people...because there's a hell of a lot of crazy people who show up at these things!

[kapkomet]

It's not the disagreeing with Obama that makes you a nutjob any more than disagreeing with Bush made you an America-hating terrorist hugging nutjob. It's the fact that there's a lot of nutjobs actually doing it. They're doing things like, threatening secession if the tax rate climbs 4 percentage points.

 

In terms of the demonstrations being labeled as crazy people...well, there's a reason why. It's the same reason why a lot of the 2003 demonstrations were labeled as crazy people...because there's a hell of a lot of crazy people who show up at these things!

However, the crazy people were VERY VERY VERY VERY few and they get all the coverage.

 

And again, it's not about "4 percentage points" like you want to make it. There's the problem, right there.

[Rex Kickass]

I'm from Indiana, I can't look down on anyone!

 

You know Indiana is bad when I considered moving to New Jersey to be a step up.

[southsider2k5]

First of all, does Texas actually hold any nuclear weapons? Yes, the U.S. has a lot of them, but only the ICBM's are stuck in fixed positions, and I'm fairly certain none of the remaining active sites are in Texas (Not the best location for launching against Russia, in particular). Second, any mobile ones would be held by the military, and if things came to a head, they're going to move them out before anything like that can happen. And third, if they don't move them out, then the Texans would have to take them off of the military base by force and then activate them (think Fort Sumter except the U.S. side is slightly better armed).

 

It was a joke.

[Balta1701]

It was a joke.

Actually I thought it was an interesting point, and I had to check to make sure there weren't any missile silos located there before responding. If Texas did secede, getting its hands on a nuke is about the only way they could survive it.

 

When the Soviets collapsed for example, there was a lot of their nuclear arsenal left behind in their formerly occupied states, and it took them nearly a decade to supposedly transfer the weapons back to russia.

[CanOfCorn]

Texas pretty much HAD to join the union as they were in deep financially. (Thank you Bob Bullock Texas State History Museum)

 

They are also the only state that can fly it's flag at the same height as the American flag...because they were once a sovereign Republic.

[mr_genius]

that would be hilarious is Texas decided to secede

[GoSox05]

I'm cool with this, but they have to take Utah with them.

[Balta1701]

I found this an interesting read.

So what would Texas look like as a foreign country?

 

It would be the world's thirteenth largest economy -- bigger than South Korea, Sweden, and Saudi Arabia. But its worth would crater precipitously, after NAFTA rejected it and the United States slapped it with an embargo that would make Cuba look like a free-trade zone. Indeed, Texas would quick become the next North Korea, relying on foreign aid due to its insistence on relying on itself.

 

On the foreign policy front, a seceded Texas would suffer for deserting the world superpower. Obama wouldn't look kindly on secessionists, and would send in the military to tamp down rebellion. If Texas miraculously managed to hold its borders, Obama would not establish relations with the country -- though he might send a special rapporteur. (We nominate Kinky Friedman.)

 

So, Texas would need to court Mexico and Central American nations as a trading partners and protectors. Those very nations would also pose a host of problems for Texas. President Perry might find friends in anti-U.S. nations like Venezuela and Cuba, but their socialist politics would rankle the libertarian nation.

 

And Texas would become a conduit for drugs moving north to the United States from Mexico, maybe even becoming a narco-state. It would need to invest heavily in its own military and policing force to stop drug violence within its borders -- taking away valuable resources from, oh, feeding its people, fending off U.S. border incursions, and improving its standing in the world.

 

In short: the state of Texas would rapidly become direly impoverished, would need to be heavily armed, and would be wracked with existential domestic and foreign policy threats. It would probably make our failed states list in short order. Probably better to pay the damn taxes.

 

And of course -- Texas isn't seceding. Only regions in civil war or self-governing areas in very weak states manage independence. Perry was floating a piece of asinine political rhetoric, running a heated race against fellow Republican Kay Bailey Hutchinson and courting small-government conservatives of all stripes. Plus, more importantly, Texas can't secede, according to the 1869 Supreme Court Case, Texas v. White. Ah well.

[DukeNukeEm]

Texas is the only state to have a clause in their acceptance into the US that would allow them succession rights if they were chosen to be enacted upon.

All 49 other states would have to vote to allow Texas to leave. Not happening.

[Soxbadger]

Im not sure why people think Texas can secede.

 

This issue was discussed in Texas v. White 74 U.S. 700.

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/hist...74_0700_ZO.html

 

When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.

 

Indissoluble relation.

 

No place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of states.

 

Pursuant to the Supreme Court, Texas or any other state can not leave the US except for revolution or through consent of the states.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

Good god I can't believe the machine has gone into overdrive with "what if's" about Texas leaving

[kapkomet]

Good god I can't believe the machine has gone into overdrive with "what if's" about Texas leaving

The funniest thing is, Rick Perry never said those words. Yet, look at the flames fly.

 

But I didn't know about the Supreme Court decision, which is good to know.

 

[OilCan]

LOL, this is funny...you guys almost had me go Google on all this yap.

I wasthisclosetellingmywife...screw it, we are moving back to my hometown Chicago!!!

 

ROTFLMAO...wait until I tell my Austin buddies about this "story" tomorrow at work.....

[BearSox]

Hey Kap, how is Perry? Do you think he is someone I would like? I don't know much about him except that he is a converted democrat and supposedly pretty conservative.

[kapkomet]

Hey Kap, how is Perry? Do you think he is someone I would like? I don't know much about him except that he is a converted democrat and supposedly pretty conservative.

I gotta tell you. I really don't like him all that much, because I think that he's been on the wrong side of some pretty important issues down here. With that said, he is a true fiscal conservative, and that alone makes him better then most. He was b****ing about GWB and the money before even Obama came into office. You also have to remember that most of the Democrats down here would be considered Republican in Illinois and the northeast US. They are all pretty conservative overall... of course there are some exceptions to that.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

The funniest thing is, Rick Perry never said those words. Yet, look at the flames fly.

 

But I didn't know about the Supreme Court decision, which is good to know.

This was a more or less typical sensationalist thing. He did actually say those words, but he couched it in so many caveats that it was obvious no one was seriously considering it. But the press will turn anything then can into something big, loud and simple - TEXAS GOVERNOR WANTS TO SECEDE!!! Yeah not really. I do think he was a bit classless to even hint at it, since it was clearly disingenuous. But this is not that big a deal.