SoCalChiSox

Get the damn trades done already. We badly need something new to talk about. We also badly need a LH RF and another SP, but mainly we need something new to talk about.

Thanks for the summary. Sounds like instead of Kimbrel for RF it's Kimbrel first to open up room for a 2nd trade for RF.

No one seriously believes they will go into the season with no LH RFer addition or SP addition after backing themselves into a corner by publicly stating these were their top needs. Even if TLR won the battle for how the budget got spent (relievers), it is STILL not realistic to believe they are done. It might not be Conforto. It might not be an OAK pitcher. It could very well be a mediocre unsatisfactory short term addition but there will be an addition. We didn't offer 4/73-ish (Jimmy) and then magically decide there's no more room because a couple relievers got signed on even shorter term deals.

Negotiation tactic

Jimmy, what's going on re the Kimbrel trade to a west coast team? It's been a few days already.

Pretty much this. Ofcourse I can see this going off the rails because if the Sox finally give in on the opt out they are gonna want to reduce the total exposure in exchange. Ok Scott we agree to the one year opt out. But instead of 4/75, it will have to be 3/57. He won't go for that.

FO has now has a few days to mull over their 3 offers for Kimbrel. It was reported the transaction would address the RF need and it was a few days away. That was before the weekend. Is it possible they are putting it on hold and circling back to Conforto because of his cooling market?

Canes win again! Woooo

Why would they resign when they are not the ones who value relievers like gold and they're not the ones calling the shots on how the pie gets divided?

The Sox don't have a great immediate history of winning games of chicken against elite agents, even when there is a seeming lack of other suitors. I'm not expressing an opinion on the merits of whether 5/100 is a good idea or not. I'm just saying getting stuck in a stalemate against Boras when your other viable replacement options have now disappeared, the positional hole is as large as the grand canyon and you have a short window to win is a poor position to be in. In a master class on creating good leverage, this probably wouldn't be used as the example in the casebook.

I'm not sure the issue is lack of creativity. I think the issue is JR says ok fellas there is X left to spend and TLR says get me these two relievers and RH/KW say we need a SP or RF and 2B. JR then says sign the relievers. RH/KW: What about our primary needs now? JR: Sorry guys now we are maxed out. Graveman and Kelly weren't cheap. How bout trade a bad contract for a bad contract? RH/KW: Doesn't really address the need though. Just puts a new warm body in that spot. Fans will be irate. JR: Well...can't pay a dollar when we only have 50 cents. A warm body will have to do. The fans are doing fine and we have Scott Merkin on the case. KW/RH: Were falling further and further behind Jerry. Even Minnesota is nipping at our heels. We need a SP and RF. JR: Tony says we're fine guys. I remember back in 83 we got to the ALCS against Baltimore. Damn....heck of a manager. I think our team is on the field. TLR: (wry smile)

Nope...Boras isn't going to do anything unless it's a) 100+m guaranteed or b) contains a very early opt out so Conforto can rebuild his value. He was on track to get a 150m deal. They aren't going to accept half that without a mechanism to get the rest of the money if he plays well and we're not going to offer an opt out unless we get one as well and Boras will never go for that. They will take a 2 year deal for 40m with an opt out after 1 before they accept a 4/73 Grandal deal.

Wouldn't this suggest we had better offers elsewhere? If ATL was the best, we would have taken it.

Eat Price's last year and maybe a young arm. Ofcourse to accomplish the former they'd need to get Keuchel off the books (or mostly off the books).

Yep no way he is coming here now. He will get prolly 5/120 in light of Castellanos deal. HE GAWN

Will require eating prices last year which means we need to move most of keuchels salary to make JR happy

Good. Now this should get LAD to come to the table. Finalize the damn trade already and get Bellinger

Go Canes! Great game

We're a bunch of scorpions in a bottle. Lol

Until something meaningful and legitimately positive happens this is pretty much how it's gonna be. Blame the team, not the posters.

So you're gonna put a clunky 1B in RF in a playoff game?

I'm not defending their cheapness as a general matter and it felt horrible at the time but in retrospect it was better that he went to SD. Moncada has been worth just about as much value at 3B at a fraction of the cost and given our infamous artificial budget limits, it's not clear how many extensions or other contracts that we actually got done (Robert, Grandal, Moncada etc) would have been approved if the "money got spent" on Machado.

I hear you and if it were only him that would be one thing. But Pal is openly saying we won't go 4 years and now we have reports the team is pivoting to one all inclusive trade to put a bandaid on all these issues for a year (RF, SP) rather than substantively addressing the problem.

Pal pretty much did too. He said Sox won't go to 4 years when in reality even that peolly won't be enough and we know JR isnt going to also assume the risk of a one sided opt out. Honestly the only way I see him coming here is if BOS also doesn't want to assume that risk and he ends up having to accept a bloated 1 yr deal for 22m+. I doubt it will get to that point. He will find a taker for 4-5 year deal with opt out. And Chicago has now pivoted already to addressing the need via the Kimbrel trade it seems. If they can get Bellinger for Kimbrel and taking Price's contract that would be great. Ofcourse, to make it work financially they'll need to unload Keuchel first. If you unload Kimbrel (16) and say 12 of Keuchels 18, that's 28 in savings. Bellinger and Price would be what somewhere around 40 added on? So a net add of 12? I don't know if JR will add that much more on a net basis.

Realistically no. If they work out an agreement for intl draft the pick goes away and they will agree because getting rid of that restriction is more valuable to union members than helping non union members.