vilehoopster

You just said this to get me going again on my Colome better than Hendriks argument, didn't you? Well, not taking the bait. I know, most of you are saying, "Thank God".

Okay, I said I was through on this topic and I keep posting but I have a question, a question not really on this topic but on my earlier twist on the topic. Is anyone else afraid that Colome is gonna end up in Minnesota with the Twins? Because I sure am.

Thank you for saying this. But really, I come here for the debate, the mental gymnastics for trying to prove my point and that I'm correct. I was doing pretty well for a while, but the point about getting a loss in earlier innings but not getting a save, I had no counter for that. Plus your point about how strikes out are more important with a, let's say, less-good defense behind you; is very true, and is a strong point why Hendriks is a better fit for the Sox next year than Colome. So welcome Hendriks and come on season and get here.

Okay, my last post on this topic. I am glad the Sox signed Hendriks. I am ecstatic that the Sox are willing to spend this type of money to win. But I am a loyalty guy and I hate to see Colome go; I hate to see it. Hendriks will come in and be great. I believe Colome would have been great (as I have debated the last couple pages). My first ever post on this forum was that the Sox should pay and keep Avi Garcia. The next day he was released, rather funny and ironic. It's really tough for me to see guys whom I cheer for and have helped the team go, so I argued/ debated that we should have kept Garcia and I argue that we should have kept Colome. Again, I love that we got Hendriks. There is no doubt that the Sox are clearly going for the World Series this year. The closer king is dead, Colome; long live the new closer king Hendriks. I'm behind him 100% God, oh God, I want the season to start soon. I am so excited for what is coming. I hope it isn't delayed too much.

This is a good point. I cannot think of a counter to this arguement/ point. You have me. Coming in without the opportunity for the save (but still get the loss), does show why the save percentage might skew in Colome's favor. A good point. You have me on this one.

Do you expect Hendriks to stay healthy? If you're gonna use that argument, one is a valid as the other.

Again, a good point, but the defense behind Hendriks the last two years was better than the defense behind Colome. Think about the outfield defense Colome had in 2019 compared to the outfield Hendricks had that year. Also, something like blocked kicks or errors in baseball, over two seasons (even a shortened season) somewhat even outs or if not, comes down in Hendriks favor. Again, did Hendriks have twice as many of his field goals blocked, because he blew twice as many saves.

Looked deeper into the blown saves. 2 of those blown saves were as an 8th inning or earlier guy not as a closer. He became the A's closer in June of 2019. So that knocks it down to 6 blown saves as a closer vs 4 for Colome. This was also a brand new role for him moving from 7th/8th inning to 9th inning. 3 of those 6 blown saves happened within his month of being a closer in July over a 3 game stretch looking at the game log, one of those being a multiple inning affair. Taking out a single stat in isolation without the full picture is why it is a bad take. Looking at the full body of work over 2 years in which he was clearly the best RP in all of baseball is a clearer look at Hendriks vs. Colome as a closer. An appearance is an appearance; a blown save is a blown save. What does it matter if it's in the 8th or the 9th inning. If anything, there's less pressure in the 8th inning. Going back to my field goal kicker analogy: you're saying that because you're field goal kicker missed his field goals in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, they are somehow less important to the stat of field goal percentage?? And if we're gonna look closer at each blown save, remember again, Hendriks had a better defense behind him. Colome's only blown save from last year was when Grandal let the ball go through his legs while he was looking over at the dugout. I think looking closer at blown saves only helps my argument.

Colome isn't throwing 50 pitches or getting a 3 inning save in the playoffs. Hendriks did both during the last postseason. Okay, I'll debate this point too. 1) Aren't we all saying that with the Sox bullpen this year, this won't ever happen, ever? Haven't we more or less said that the Sox have tons of outstanding options for the 7th and 8th inning (to the point that we can trade some young guys), so our closer doesn't need to pitch three innings. 2) Also, this is just from memory, so give me a break, but didn't Colome in 2019, get four outs against KC for the win or save in the first game and then come back and pitch the 9th for a save in a double header? I pretty sure he did that. To me, that's pretty much the same as what Hendriks did.

Isn't save percentage far and away a better measure of success, the most important stat to look at? With a football game on the line next year, do you want a field-goal kicker who makes 95% of his kicks over the last two years or the one who has only made 90% of his kicks the last two years? You're saying you want the one that makes 90% of his kicks because he has a better left-foot placement percentage or because he has a better spin of the ball off the holders finger rate. I'm saying those other stats don't matter. What matters is how often the ball goes through the uprights. And for a closer, babip and velocity and k-rates don't matter. What matters is who is most likely to walk off the field with a win. And Hendricks is twice as likely to not be that guy as Colome.

All that matters is winning the game. And winning the division And winning the playoffs And winning the World Series That's the kind of vision I like to tunnel in on: and that starts with saving the most games with the highest percentage so you win the most games.

Sorry, but this is a bad take. Colome hasn't even been the most valuable White Sox reliever over the last 2 years, that would be Bummer. Over the last 2 years Hendriks has been the best reliever in all of baseball and it isn't even particularly close. We've reached the point of this discussion of comparing save stats as to who is better. At least it's not ERA comparison. But still dumb no doubt. When a closer comes in, all that matters is the save, save the game for your team. How it was done should not matter at all, not at all. And when you look at who was better at saves, Colome was twice as good as Hendriks, twice as good. Again, indisputable fact: in the last two years, in one more appearance, Hendrick blew TWICE as many games as Colome over the last two years, indisputable fact. Whether he did it with ground out, fly outs, or strikes outs doesn't matter. What matters is saving the win. And again, Hendircks blew twice as many games as Colome over the last two years, and if we're gonna look at other factors, he blew twice as many with a much better defense behind him. The first guy I quoted gives all these stats: babip and strike out rate. That shit doesn't matter if you're blowing the save, twice as many. Looking at babip and missed bats and ignoring who is better at keeping the lead with the game on the line is the ultimate example of not seeing the forest for the trees. That's like saying after a loss, "Well, if you look at the stats, we really won. We had more hits, better bat on ball percentage, and less strike outs, so I think we should count this as a win." That's ridiculous. The win is what matters. For a closer, all that matters is the save, and Colome saves more games at a higher percentage than Hendricks. And let me quote the first guy in italics up above, "it isn't even particularly close". Comparing Colome to the Hendriks (looking at only past performance the last two years) Hendricks will loss two or three saves next year that Colome would have kept. But that's okay; we don't need those couple wins, we'll just admire Hendrik's babip and strike out rate.

I agree with this guy. The Sox spent all this money to get a guy less good than Colome. Here's a copy and past from what I posted earlier on this topic on a different thread: Colome is clearly, clearly better than Hendriks. Clearly. Colome the last two years: 2019 - 30 saves in 33 save opportunities 2020 - 12 saves in 13 save opportunities Hendricks last two years: 2019 - 25 saves in 32 save chances 2020 - 14 saves in 15 save opportunities Totals: Colome - 42 saves in 46 save opportunities -- four blown saves Hendricks - 39 saves in 47 opportunities - eight blown saves In only one more opportunity, Hendricks has blown twice as many games as Colome over the last two years, twice as many. I am glad the Sox are spending money, and I am going to say the the Sox brass knows what they're doing, but I don't get how Hendrick at the best closer in baseball when he wasn't better than Colome. Again, Hendrick blew twice as many saves as Colome over the last two years, twice as many. I'm glad the Sox are spending money and especially glad we didn't get a stiff like Brad Hand, but the Sox could have kept Colome for a lot, lot less money and had a better reliever.

You're that down on Cease?? He hasn't even had the equivalent of one full rookie season starting. That just seems way too pessimistic for a young guy with so much promise. You don't think the Sox should be putting him out there again? Because I sure do; there's so much potential. Any sense at all says you've got to see what Cease and Kopech can do next year.

Good, stay in contact with Colome and sign him. Pay him a fair price and keep him. Sorry, but I don't understand this "grass is greener on the other side" mentality on this board. Colome is clearly, clearly better than Hendriks. Clearly. Colome the last two years: 2019 - 30 saves in 33 save opportunities 2020 - 12 saves in 13 save opportunities Hendricks last two years: 2019 - 25 saves in 32 save chances 2020 - 14 saves in 15 save opportunities Totals: Colome - 42 saves in 46 save opportunities -- four blown saves Hendricks - 39 saves in 47 opportunities - eight blown saves In only one more opportunity, Hendricks has blown twice as many games as Colome over the last two years, twice as many. And yet people on this board are clamoring for Hendricks and saying let Colome go. I'm too lazy to look. Does anybody have a better save percentage than Colome's .913% over the last two years? I only looked up Hader, and he doesn't. Does anybody? And yet, we just want to let Colome walk to another team?? The grass is NOT greener. Pay and keep Colome. This is so obvious. Plus the Sox already have two outstanding lefties for finishing games: Bummer and Crochet. Don't screw this up. Keep Colome.

I agree with this guy. It definitely happens. Plus getting away from the damn Cubs has to immediately have a positive impact on anybody.

So many people on this forum discuss Kopech like he's a sure thing. Kopech is far, far from that. We all have great hopes and expectations for him, but assuming that he'll be in AAA for a month and then come up and be awesome strikes me as silly. I could happen, and I would love to see it, but the guy has a lot of issues. Plus Cease is far from a sure thing also. Is that even open for debate? I do suffer from nostalgia with Quintana. It was so enjoyable watching him pitch in that White Sox uniform. I would like to see him get another chance to do it again. I say bring him in, let him compete against all the other guys through spring training and then let's see what we got. If Cease and Kopech are better, and if everyone else stays healthy (a huge if) he can go and be long relief. But remember last year. . . . Before last year started, the feeling on this board was that the Sox were set with at least five quality starting pitchers with the addition of Keuchel and a returning healthy Rodon. But then Kopech decided to sit out; Lopez went into the tank: Cease became more shaky as the season wore on, and Rodon did what he always seems to do (I'm so glad his sorry ass is gone), and what happens. Even with the addition of Dunning; by the time all was said and done and the playoffs were here, the Sox only had two starters worth a damn for the playoffs. So bring in Quintana, a guy who is a vet and can work a lot of innings, and let's see what he has and let him compete for a starting job and be some good insurance. Let's be realistic here: It's hard for me to imagine the White Sox having a rotation where they have five starters better than even a mediocre Quintana.

I think you have to be extremely naive to not think Nelson Cruz is on PEDs. The fact that he is having far and away his best years after he turned 32 just reeks of PED use. Look at the article from FanGraphs. Look whom it compares him to. It's all but saying he's on PEDs. From there, Cruz hasn’t looked back. Since beginning his age-33 season in Baltimore, he has batted .283/.359/.553 with 235 homers, good for a 147 wRC+ and 182.5 offensive runs above average. Before turning 33, he was worth a total of just 44 offensive runs above average for his career. For context, just 20 players in history have accumulated more offensive runs above average after their age-32 season than Cruz, 15 of which are in the Hall of Fame, with three others being connected to the Steroid Era (Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, and Rafael Palmeiro). Meanwhile, 829 players compiled more offensive runs above average than Cruz through their age-32 seasons. For nine seasons, he was essentially equal in offensive value to Marcus Giles. Since then, he’s been Manny Ramirez, and it doesn’t appear he’s slowing down soon. This article is from 2019, but look at the names it compares him to, all famous PED users. I just think it's ridiculous not to believe Cruz is on something and has been for years. Yet to my knowledge, he has never flunked a drug test. For his suspension in 2013, it was (to my reading up on it) because he was included in the records of the Biogenesis Lab, not for ever failing a drug test. The Biogenesis thing is what caught Braun and A-Rod. I just don't quite get it. Why can't MLB catch him at it? You have to think he's being tested continually. And I understand that it's a contest of science: One side masking the drug use and the other side trying to detect the drug use. But still . . . . Like I said, if MLB can catch Robinson Cano, twice, why can't it catch Cruz. My example of how a guy can avoid detection for years is Lance Armstrong. He was winning all those Tour de France titles in the 90's and everyone knew he was on PEDs and continually testing him, yet he didn't get completely exposed and confess until around 2010. So clearly, there is the science to mask and hide drug testing. I just find it very frustrating that MLB can't catch Cruz and others like him.

No I won't. Don't hire cheaters !!!!! Never. I don't care how many titles. If you cheat, it means you're admitting you're not good enough to win without cheating. To the Belichick guy who made the comparison, I would rather go 0 and 16 than 16 and 0 with a known cheater like Belichick. There is zero pride in cheater, zero. Any success done with cheating is not real and you the person that cheated knows it more than anyone. Again, you're admitting you can't win without cheating.

Well, one of my arguments that it wasn't RR but the front office is what happened to Alonso last year. The guy kept being put in the line up day after day, and to make it more frustrating, he was batting cleanup most of the time, maybe 5th if I'm remembering correctly. And he kept being put in the lineup. Why would Ricky do that? He had to be as frustrated as we were watching Alonso ground out to the shift time after time. I think the front office, signing the brother-in-law, didn't want to look as ridiculous as they ended up looking, so they forced Ricky to keep playing him in hopes that he'd come around and justify the signing. He was never really benched. But then all of a sudden, the Sox released him, just let him go. Now that makes no sense to me unless the front office told RR that he had to keep playing Alonso until a certain time and if he didn't come around, (front office) "we'll just dump him". Didn't that occur to anyone else when Alonso just so suddenly cut? Again, does anyone else remember that tweet by Stone on this subject?

This is my big question for the last two years: Is it all on RR??? Didn't Stone put out a tweet about how RR was forced to play certain players. Does anyone remember that tweet? And I don't know but I just have to feel that RR didn't want to be playing EE and Mazara at all after a while and certainly not when and where he batted them. I can't believe he wanted to be playing Yonder Alonso all those times. RR is a competitive guy or he wouldn't be in baseball. No competitive guy puts out people with such terrible stats unless directed by their boss. I have to believe that he was told by the front office to play EE, Mazara, and Yonder in the hope that the front office wouldn't look stupid for signing them.

I'm not exaggerating. I would much rather have Yolmer at DH than Encarnacion. I am so sick of watching him come up to bat as his .165 batting average continues to spiral downward.

I don't think your comparing his to Avi is valid at all. Avi actually did have one good year, an all-star year. But I don't remember Rodon ever, and I mean ever being really good. I know the Sox and their publicity tells us how good he is or how good he was back when he was healthy. If I hear Jason B. tell us about his wipe-out slider, I think I'm going to throw something through my TV screen. The only thing that slider every wiped out was a Sox lead. But I don't remember him ever really good. He was for a long time one of the less-bad options on a bad pitching staff. But even when he was good, he only slightly above average. Well, I don't know: his 1st year, 2015, he was 9 & 6 with a 3.75 ERA. But since then he's been bad. And that's when he was healthy. Now he's never healthy. I was upset to see Avi go, but I am soooo ready to move beyond Rodon.

I am not too worried about Frank, but what about Stone? Don't you think he's starting to get on real thin ice? However 100% justified his comments were. I would hate to lose Stone in the booth.

As long as you've decided to make this personal and imply that for your opinion you're better person than I. Let me make my reply also personal. First of all anyone who starts a typed statement with "Dude" loses ALL credibility. Second, you're a official. One of those guys, not good enough to have really played and been part of a real locker room and team and understand what I'm talking about, but you still want to be involved in sports so he becomes an official. LOL, Dude.