Look at Ray Ray Run

1. The initial return was a great return (Bart+), the actual return is not good at all. 2. My entire argument is Kris Bryant the RF'er is more valuable than another bullpen arm for this year, so them replacing Kimbrel next year which you have talked about endlessly (Not just for this year) was to refute your claim that Kimbrel was worth extra because you get him next year too. 3. Three is pretty yes or no. Would you rather have Madrigal or not have him. Not sure how the argument can be for not having Madrigal on the team.

Kris Bryant is going to get 200 million dollars. Craig Kimbrel got 43 million. There's nothing that defines value that would argue that Craig Kimbrel is more valuable than Kris Bryant. Relief pitchers are not more valuable than an everyday star OF'er/3rd baseman.

WHo is raging? You can't refute a single point I'm making. 1. Kris Bryant is more valuable for this year and the Sox chances of winning a WS than Craig Kimbrel - yes or no? 2. The White Sox could sign a reliever for less than 16 million this off-season that's production would be close enough to Kimbrels for it to be negligible for them to win next year after considering they would also have Madrigal - yes or no? 3. Having Nick Madrigal is better than not having Nick Madrigal next year - yes or no? The answer to all three of those questions is yes. So how can you argue that the Sox did what was best for this year or next year in this thread? And how can you be critical of anyone bringing that issue to the forefront? edit: And why would I want to be upset by the White Sox moves? I am one of the more optimistic posters about the players and the team, but I'm not going to blindly support a poor process being executed by the front office who has earned absolutely zero benefit of the doubt on their allocation of resources.

Except Kris Bryant is BETTER and more valuable than Craig Kimbrel, which is the point you willingly continue to overlook and ignore; which is odd, given that it's the primary point being made in this thread.

Oh my, they just spent 54 million on a closer... how is this any different? The Sox MO is to acquire the top of the line players at the more affordable positions (catcher, relief pitcher) so they can claim they play at the top of the market. They have done this over and over again, but yet they continue to have you fooled.

Yeah, I hope he's right too but him insinuating that anyone who doubts that is wrong is flat out laughable.

1. The Sox would be an even BETTER team today than they were before if they traded for Bryant over Kimbrel. 2. Gavin Sheets isn't a DH on a World Series contender. My goodness. Andrew Vaughn has no business playing right field. 3. No team is paying two relievers 32 million so please spare me your third point as it's complete nonsense and not at all supported by relatable examples. I bumped a thread from before the season with every poster saying the Sox had the best bullpen in baseball. Bullpens are volatile, investing significantly in them is dumb and teams with good ones develop the majority of them internally. Teams who have the best players make the playoffs. The playoffs themselves are a crap shoot. A good bullpen helps but the narrative that it decides post-seasons is reactionary BS.

EXACTLY! The Sox could have signed a reliever that was projected to be nearly as good as Kimbrel in 4 months for less, and made themselves much better this year by trading for Bryant. Anyway you slice it, this team chose to do something that no top-of-the-line organization has done; pay two closers prime market value.

You are arguing this when the same front office just spent 80% of their available off-season resources on a closer/relief pitcher. You have to see the irony in that, no? My lord.

What about what I said is wrong? Kris Bryant is a more impactful add than Craig Kimbrel for this season? The Sox could sign a reliever this upcoming off-season for less than 16 million and still get a very very good reliever? Nick Madrigal is better to have on your team than not have? What above do you disagree with? I honestly can't believe how many people think it's OK to two relievers 32 million dollars. No other great and consistent winning organizations do that, but you think the Sox are somehow the brilliants ones.

So who is the DH? Do the Sox just not have a DH Now? Vaughn and Eloy are in LF/DH. The Sox have NO right fielder. Kris Bryant filled an actual massive hole on the roster. Craig Kimbrel was a luxury item. I am so confused how you can't see how terribly this front office just spent their resources.

The Cubs literally just traded two guys to the Sox; this narrative needs to die. Just as the Sox did this past off-season, they allocated their resource terribly and spent their primary assets on a relief pitcher.

The Sox could have paid a reliever this off-season well less than 16 million who was still really good. They already spent a ton on a closer. I really am so confused by what you can't grasp. This is honestly amazing. The Sox could have kept Madrigal, acquired Bryant, signed a reliever this off-season, and been better this year (bryant > Kimbrel) and been better next year. If the goal was to get better for this year with the Kimbrel trade then Bryant was a much smarter add and way more impactful. If the goal of Kimbrel was to, for some reason, acquire a properly paid reliever (despite just paying 54 million for one) they could have just signed one as a FA this upcoming year. Anyway you slice it this didn't make us better this year (Bryant would have), or more efficient next year.

Kris Bryant would be significantly more helpful to our team this year than Kimbrel, I'm really not sure how you don't see that. Your obsession with 20 innings over 70 whole games is really, really weird. The Sox have no right fielder. Bryant is a star. He impacts every game. The Sox could have traded much less for Bryant, signed a reliever in the off-season for much less than 16 million, and been way better off.

Uh, more is really understating the difference here.

Canario was a top 10 guy in their system.

Anyone who thinks the Sox didn't get bent over in their trade after seeing this one have lost their damn minds. That said, Bob is a moron. I'm like 100% sure it's Alex Canario.

I hate to bump this thread, but with SS2k's thread I just had to.

AHhhh yes, NO ONE could have possibly matched this unstoppable post-season numbers from Aroldis Chapman: How could any team possibly replace a guy with a 3.86 and 3.52 ERA in the two biggest series of the year. The entire Chapman narrative is a laughable joke. Nothing he did was irreplaceable. The world series was decided by the guys who performed in 95% of the innings, not the guy who was average at his job for 12 of them. Year Age Tm Lg Series Rslt Opp W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP BK WP BF WHIP H9 HR9 BB9 SO9 SO/W WPA cWPA 2016 28 CHC NL NLDS W SFG 0 0 2.70 4 0 3 0 0 3 3.1 3 1 1 0 1 0 7 0 0 0 14 1.200 8.1 0.0 2.7 18.9 7.00 -0.04 1.6% 2016 28 CHC NL NLCS W LAD 1 0 1.000 3.86 4 0 3 0 0 0 4.2 3 2 2 0 3 0 3 0 0 0 18 1.286 5.8 0.0 5.8 5.8 1.00 0.11 1.9% 2016 28 CHC NL WS W CLE 1 0 1.000 3.52 5 0 3 0 0 1 7.2 5 3 3 1 2 0 11 1 0 0 30 0.913 5.9 1.2 2.3 12.9 5.50 0.23 -20.1%

Not only are they investing heavily in money, but they also invested heavily in assets. That's a large investment. And this will be my last post on the topic, but reach out to me when the White Sox actually prove they're going to spend real money. They spent huge on a closer this off-season and it didn't mean shit when it came to opening up their pocket books. The Sox bullpen was viewed as the strength of this team pre-season and it's been trash because bullpens are volatile and investing a big % of your chips into that bucket is not an efficient or intelligent strategy imo.

Which is wild, since you could argue that Heuer/Madrigal is as good as the Rizzo package, and they ate all of Rizzo's contract to get those prospects back from the Yankees.

Not sure what this means at all, but the fact that even "top three reliever in baseball" was bad the two years prior kind of proves how risky it is to invest heavily in relievers, no?

The White Sox spent 54 million on a closer this off-season and they entered the year with the 16th highest payroll in baseball. Literally nothing about this acquisition proves the White Sox are going to open up the pocket books. The White SOx had like 25 million to spend this entire off-season (yearly) and spent 80% of it on a reliever. The White Sox haven't exactly proven to be intelligent with their allocation of limited resources.

I have no idea what you're trying to argue. The Sox just added 6 million in salary; they didn't sign some 100 million dollar contract. Their payroll is league average still while being all in. And if the Sox are spending 32 million on relievers next year with a 150 million dollar payroll, they're morons.

LOL, after the Kimbrel acquisition, the White Sox now have the 14th highest payroll in baseball. I can't tell if you're being serious or not.