Look at Ray Ray Run

You'd expect to see some correlation here then: this is $ spent per fan since 1980 The only correlation here pertains to league spending, not White Sox attendance, which has been pretty stagnant in general since 2007. For a comparison, here are the attendance numbers during that same period. Those two graphs show very little relation.

What are you basing this on? Attendance hasn't been the primary revenue source for teams in quite some time.

Wait, so it's the fans who cancelled their season tickets fault - due to the Sox hiring a drunk - that they didn't spend in Free Agency? Is that really the angle your going with? Or are you going with the even more offensive - if you don't buy season tickets you shouldn't have expectations or be allowed to call out your teams cheapness? As someone who hasn't posted about La Russa probably since the week or two after the hiring, I'm just trying to find the angle here. Do I get my money back for the past four years (prior to 2020) that I had season tickets and the Sox didn't even try to put a MLB team on the field? Or that doesn't count.... you can only expect them to spend if you, yourself, have season tickets for the season you expect them to spend. Man, it's hard being a Sox fan; you either support an organization that never spends and hires a drunk or it's somehow your fault they hired a drunk and didn't spend.

This was my entire argument, ftr so prepare for the flaming.

My question is, which one is Sandusky? That'll really decide it for me. ?

Strong trade bait lol wuhhhht? Eaton had that season in 2019; the Nationals had a team option on him this year for 9 million dollars (his buyout was 1.5 million). The Nationals, who are trying to win games, didn't pick up his 9 million dollar option. Then multiple teams were "in on him" and the best offer he could get was 7.5... but he'd become a great trade bait at 8 million next year after having the same year he had in 2019. You honestly can't make this shit up. Eaton was such a winner in Washington but the Nats had no interest on keeping him to be their RF'er for 9 million dollars; they now don't have a RF as of today.

Over Eaton's last 192 games - 2019/2020 - (for an aging player, that is certainly more relevant than his numbers in 2016) he's slashing 267/348/418 with a wRC+ of 101. He did this while playing below average defense. Over Pederson's last 192 games (for a player entering his prime years) Joc is slashing 236/327/508 with a wRC+ of 119 (18% better than Eaton). He did this while playing above average defense. I'm not a huge Pederson fan, and I don't love his profile, but those two players aren't all that close. It's not a very good comparison. Bizarrely enough they've played the same amount of games.

Which I still would think; which is how much worse I feel about this Eaton signing. Unacceptable they didn't spend the big money on Springer. I wouldn't be celebrating the Joc signing either, but it would be better than signing Adam Eaton that's for sure.

Cali you win; you're the man.

No, the difference is 10-14% offensively (between 2019 and 2016) which is significant. His offense regressed 10-14% and his defense regressed even more.

What same stuff? My point has always been that I would not be happy if the Sox filled their right field hole by spending on a below average right fielder. Seems pretty easy to understand. And no offense pal, but you seem to think I owe you something and I just want to let you know that If you were confused, I don't owe you anything. I also didn't call you a nimcompoop or any names; I presented an argument for why I wouldn't be happy with signing a below average right fielder to a contending team with plenty of $$$ to spend, and you started throwing out pointless hypotheticals that you felt were "gotcha" moments. I'd be happy if anyone on the roster didn't get worse; that doesn't mean I'm happy they're on the roster. That seems to be something you can't grasp.

Well, he was no where near a below average starter then; in fact, he was well above average. Let's all celebrate the Sox going cheap. It's very exciting. Go Sox! Joc Pederson was much better than Eaton.

"Most teams" have spent over 100 million dollars on a player> "Most teams" who are all-in during their competitive window don't sign below average players to be everyday starters in the field "Most teams" who have rebuilt and started to win have broke the bank in free agency to supplement their young talented core. And no, it's not a guaranteed upgrade over Adam Engel; who was already in the fold. And enough of this Springer stuff; how about Joc Pederson? He's much better than Adam Eaton too and he wouldn't break the bank either. People wonder why Jerry is cheap; because Sox fans would buy a Yugo and a couple weeks later they'd be telling their friends it was no different than a BMW. Oh, and PS: Cali has Eaton batting 2nd.... that seems like a pretty important player.

I used bWAR as the end all? Try reading the thread again, pal. How many more ways should I Break it down for you to help you understand that Eaton was a below average right fielder in 2019 and no Sox fans should be thrilled with having below average position players when they have a below average payroll and had plenty of money to spend.

And Cali of course misphrased the question, which is even more obnoxious. Would I be thrilled if Adam Eaton played 151 games and was as good as he was in 2019 - sure. Because he's likely worse now. So i would be happy if he was as good as he was when he was 30 and played as many games as he's ever played in his career for the most part. Would I be thrilled as Sox fan that Adam Eaton was the right fielder? No, because the production is below average. That was the entire conversation, but this guy loves putting words in my mouth; it's his favorite past time. Have a good day, hope you get the affirmation you seek buddy.

That wasn't the conversation, and I don't need to adjust my expectations for a position because the owner is cheap. I don't expect a team trying to win a title to be thrilled with signing a below average starter in free agency.

jeeze... at creating another thread for this conversation. My goodness people really need to feel that their opinions have been validated by others. Weird that Sox fans are thrilled to have a below average player in right field again... during a year when they're competing. Set that bar high, Sox fans. That's how winning organizations succeed - signing below average starters in Free Agency. People thrilled with having a guy who would rank in the bottom 3 of nearly every offensive statistic among right fielders in baseball lol... all while playing bad defense.

Who said to only use WAR? It's certainly a good baseline; do you have a better publicly available tool we could use? Oh, maybe counting stats like Stolen Bases; oh boy, that sure seems like an impactful number. Or maybe we could celebrate those 15 home runs, which in 2019 ranked him 26th of 28 qualified right fielders; it was better than Leury Garcia at least, yay! Oh, but maybe he's just a doubles machine... so let's check out his ISO, which ranked - you guessed it - 26th of 28 qualified right fielders. But his OBP was high so surely he was near the top in wRC+ because walks are important... oh wait, he was 20th among 28 RF'ers behind Avisail Garcia and Cole Calhoun. If you're taking on such a below average hitter, I bet he's a great defender; oh man, he was actually 20th and 24th out of 28 RF'ers in perspective defensive valuations. He must be young with a bright future... oh wait, he's 32 and was declining in 2019? You don't say. By all means, please recommend me some numbers we can use that compares Eaton to his peers that discredit the fact that he's a below average right fielder. Maybe your eyes? What else you got for me? I was told I would be thrilled to have that bottom tier right field production in 2021; that seems weird. I usually set my expectations above being bad. Or I guess we can just say he's a big upgrade without actually showing that. I won't even look at last year because it was even worse than that 2019 season that Sox fans would be "thrilled" to have. Sorry that I won't concede to some fantasy that Adam Eaton is a big upgrade because he played a few good games in a World Series. Please though, discredit everything I said with your evaluation skills.

No, I wouldn't be because amazingly enough Adam Eaton didn't win the World Series - the Washington nationals did. Your hypothetical is basically asking me if I'd be happy if we won the world series lol uh yeah, I would which is why I'm unhappy they signed a below average player to start in right field because that hurts there chances.

The White Sox wanted to get a below average Major Leaguer when they signed Eaton? LOL ok. I'm not dancing around anything, and I'm not throwing around statistical jargon. I'm not sure why it's difficult for you to understand that better players are likely to perform better in the playoffs and World Series than a below average player. That's not advanced statistics, that's common sense to even people without statistical backgrounds. You can try and catch lightning in a bottle, but I'll go ahead and use the Sears Tower lightening rods instead. Would you say the Sox were successful if they signed me, I was the worst player in baseball, but then hit a game winning home run in game 7 of the World Series? Because that's basically what all these "What if" scenarios are.

What? The National Park is one of the hardest to play defense in, says what? In terms of right field ground to cover, Nationals Park ranks 17th in baseball; almost smack dab in the middle of the league. In terms of total outfield area, the Nationals rank 11th from the smallest in all of baseball. There's nothing about Nationals Park that makes it one of the hardest to play defense in. It's actually pretty comparable to our own. And no, I use bWAR because DRS is a much more advanced defensive tool than UZR which is what Fangraphs uses to evaluate defensive value. It's why I use bWAR for position players typically and fWAR for pitchers. DRS is more predictive than UZR.

Again, I don't excuse decisions that force a team to overcome a position of weakness to achieve greatness (a World Series) simply by saying "well, he had a good few games at one point in the season." It is much more likely that a very good right fielder would have a very good World Series than it is that a below average right fielder would have a very good World Series. The problem with being small outcome driven is you ignore the reality that he had to perform outside his expectations to achieve that while a good player merely needs to perform to their expectations.

Thrilled with a 1.5 war? Nah, I'll pass.

A massive upgrade in RF.... He gonna bounce back from his 1.5 bWAR in 2019 too lol?

Some guys are just like that. Just a personal opinion and in the world of small sampler relievers it happens. I wouldn't pay hand 5 million, and I think he'll be complete trash sooner than later. Sox fans would despise hand as their closer.