Look at Ray Ray Run

I have been one of the biggest Madrigal supporters on this forum; relentless in my crusade against Harold and his hatred of Nick. That doesn't mean he should be absolved of criticism on elementary mistakes. Again, SS2k called it hyperbole and it absolutely is not... there are many smart players who will never ever run into an out at 3rd base with the ball hit right in front of them to the SS. They will go their entire careers without doing it. Because it's stupid and inexplicable.

I've actually heard this given as a reason before; he is so still and soft with his hands that he doesn't react as well late. I'm not sure how much validity there is to it, but I'm willing to listen.

Giolito was one of the only pitchers in MLB history to go from the literal worst pitcher in baseball to one of the best. McCann had a 733 OPS in 2017, and catchers historically develop slower than every other position; most specifically, their bats due to the amount of work they have to put in on other areas in the minors and early MLB careers. There are a lot of catchers in MLB history who got a lot better in their late 20's. Hell in the past 10 years the SOx have had 2. Tyler Flowers took off at 30-31, and James McCann took off at 29. McCann is a nice story, but Giolito is a historically rare turnaround story.

Nicky Big Sticks

Who is shitting on him? He's been great, and I don't think these issues will continue but if they did that would be a major problem.

lol the pro's, i wasn't good enough to be below avg in an average conference. should have had me handing out gatorade.

it means a guy who has overcome his anti-small bias in the game to become an elite prospect and top 5 pick is not a moron of a baseball player. It's very much at the core of the discussion. It's not subconscious, it's how the game and scouting work.

He's done 3 things this season that dumb players won't do in a year. He's done 3 things this year that some players will go their entire career without doing.

You might be right, but that first pitch is inside a little and not a strike but it's not egregious. He turned around after that strike three and complained. It's the second time I've seen him do that on an obvious strike. That 2-1 strike changed the AB, so maybe he was still b****ing about that.

The pitch he argued, that was called strike 3, was 2 inches off the heart of the plate. The entire ball caught the outside corner with about an inch to spare. It wasn't close. You don't want to get in the habit of complaining about strikes; shows a lack of strike zone awareness.

Yes, it is easier to hit against people you see more often. I don't know why this is breaking news to you... familiarity benefits the hitter more than the pitcher. If I see a slider and fastball from the same angle, same pitcher, same velo day after day that benefits me. I become comfortable with the release and the angle the pitch comes in.

There is literally zero excuse for his decision making outside of this season is weird and he's not thinking right. He ran to third on a ball hit right in front of him; you don't do that in little league. He tried to extend a double into a triple with ZERO outs. That is another thing not even a little leaguer does. He blew threw a stop sign and was hosed easily with the heart of the order coming up. Last night he argued an obvious strike with the umpire; the second time he's done that. That's another thing you just don't do and you look like a moron when you do it. I have no doubt 5'8 Madrigal is a smart baseball player, but so far he's played nothing like one.

Nick Madrigal is the dumbest "smart" baseball player I've ever watched. Madrigal has made more outs at third base in this short season than I did in 16 years of my life playing baseball. He's made more errors than I thought he'd make in a year. Nick has been awesome and will be great, but he has played absolutely idiotic baseball so far but I'll use the whacky season and him being amped for making the big leagues as the reason.

I don't really feel like going back and looking through everyone on the Mariners roster, but the Texas League last year (where Kelenic plays) has the Dodgers AA affiliate, Cardinals, Oakland, Houston, Padres, Royals and Rangers. Those AA pitching staffs encompass way more top prospects than the Mariners system on it's own. The funny thing is Clayton Kershaw also made a start in the Texas League last year. It is easier to play vs your teammates - even if they are better in some cases - than it is to play against other teams series after series.

The homer he hit last night was a welcome to the show moment for Brubaker. He threw that slider exactly where he wanted to; low and away on the paint. McCann took it out to CF and Brubaker just shook his head in amazement.

The entirety of the minor leagues has significantly more pitching depth than a single organization; you also don't see the same guy over and over again which is a big advantage to the hitter. When you pair familiarity with the depth fact it means a much more friendly hitting environment. Vaughn better be raking, as should be Kelenic.

What are you arguing? What are your eyes telling you? I think there's something to Grandal not being a great receiver; I have argued that same thing on this site. The industry is definitely torn on how good Grandal is as a catcher, and I am one who leans towards he's not a great defender class, but he's still an elite overall catcher and the future of this team at the position. McCann has been put in situations for him to best succeed. If you want to compare catchers ERA, which is much better for McCann (2.52) than Yaz (4.72) you need to compare the opponents and the pitchers he is catching. McCann has been put in a position to look as good as he can, and that's good coaching btw. Last year, Grandals catcher's ERA was also higher than his team ERA in Milwaukee but the year before with the Dodgers they were near identical. In 2017, his ERA (3.22) was better than the team ERA (3.48). The point is, that number jumps around and has more to do with your opponents and who you catch than it does your own abilities.

Stoney should know better than to comment on a catchers ability to call a game without being the pitcher himself. Grandal has been lauded for his homework and game planning in the past; he's been critiqued for his slower movement and his propensity to simply miss baseballs. I think there's more to receiving than framing and I argued Grandal was a poor receiver even while being an elite framer, but I have no idea if he's better or worse at calling a game... all I know is his work in that arena has been praised by teammates.

5th instrasquad blast lol Every time I hear about how Vaughn is destroying the ball - and I think Vaughn is going to be amazing - in Schaumburg I think to myself "he better be, who the fuck the Sox have pitching down there?" These top prospects better be destroying baseballs at their training sites because baseball has gone through all the good arms at the MLB level this year due to expanded rosters and injuries. Congratulations to Jered on his 5th fake game home run vs friends; Nick Madrigal has an 824 OPS and a 380 average vs big leaguers.

James McCann in his career - even before his resurgence last year - has a 123 wRC+ vs lefties and a 69 wRC+ vs righties. Last year he was better vs lefties (130) but also came up to league average vs righties (100) but he was just that; average. This year, coming into tonight McCann had a 237 wRC+ in 31 PA's vs lefties. Vs righties, before tonight his wRC+ was 79 in 44 PA's. Tonight he brought that number up substantially, probably near league average, but his greatness is being carried by his ability to hit lefties - which is something he's always possessed. He's a better player vs righties now, and he's just a better player in general, but he's done nothing to say he's better than a guy who has been the best or second best catcher in baseball for the past 4 years.

George springer cheated and may not be reliable and good; signing george springer makes the white sox elite. Not sure what is off but I could just be blind on this word choice.

I love Jimmy Mac... and I think anyone who thinks he should start and is better is completely blind. Mccann should be singing his best graces towards the Sox who have put him in a position to look as good as possible this year; well played match ups. That doesn't take away from how awesome he's been. This thread is comical though

The paradox is; George Springer benefited from cheating and hasn't been as good this year as he was in years past when he was allegedly cheating and the White Sox would be smart to sign George Springer.

Because guys who drop 6.5 fWAR seasons in 122 games don't grow on trees. Springer's ceiling is mesmerizing and always has been. When he's at his best, he's one of the better players in the game. I actually think the perfect storm of questions is a blessing for the Sox and any team interested. He could easily outperform his contract. I want to sign him because he fits perfectly with this team and roster. He is the final piece to an elite offense. Springer could be the 800 OPS player he's "struggled" as this year and he'd still be a damn good piece.

Of all the players I want the Sox to sign this off-season, George Springer ranks #1. That said, I don't think anyone will be effected more by this off-season than him. Springer didn't have a chance to play a full season this year, and he was coming off speculation surrounding the Astros cheating scandal. In addition to that, Springer hasn't exactly been a beacon of consistency and/or health throughout his career. Each of the past three years, he dealt with nagging injuries that kept him out for some time; playing a high of 140 games in those three seasons. In addition, Springer has seen fluctuation in his production: 889, 780, 974, 798 being his OPS' each of the past four seasons. When Springer is good, he's great - posting a 6.5 fWAR in 122 games in 2019, but he's also capable of being just a nice player. Pair that with the speculation surrounding the Astros cheating and how players would bounce back, his age (he'll be 32 next season) and his lack of consistent elite production and what do you get? A player who is going to have to overcome some obstacles to get that huge long payday in an off-season effected mightily by COVID. You have to figure teams are already going to cut back spending, and that will start first with free agents. What contract can you expect Springer to get? 3 years, 90 million? 3 years 80 million? Does he get a 4th year? Regardless, the Nomar Mazara experiment can't be what the White Sox expected, and unless they were committed to two years from the day they got him, or unless he gets on one torrid streak here to finish the season, you have to figure he's on his way out.