Look at Ray Ray Run

Oh, sorry.. so they occasionally drafted a guy that was safer. I over spoke when I said every - I should have said the vast majority. My bad. On the other hand, you have claimed this wasn't their philosophy at all for the rebuild.

On the verge lol. Collins is in AAA 3 years after he was drafted as a "college ready hitter" according to you. That somehow proves your point? I'd disagree. Fulmer did not earn a trip to the big leagues, and he certainly hasn't been productive there. Rodon fit the bill of high ceiling and high floor. That doesn't happen often.

Internationally their philosophy is very clearly the same - very toolsy, but less production so far. I'm honestly not sure how you can continue to argue this but OK. The Sox took more risks with high ceiling talent than any other rebuild prior to them. Those are the facts. More than the Cubs and the Astros and etc. Carry on though.

What's funny is that's not what I said to start this conversation, yet I'm somehow the one who didn't read. Odd stuff. Let's break this down for you since you seem to be struggling with the facts of what happened. This thread is about signing an international free agent prospect. Not the draft. Here is how this went down: SS2k said he was disappointed that with 2 years to prepare, the Sox big take home was a limited defensive wizard... I responded with the following: "You never know how any of these guys will pan out. The Sox have a history of always going high ceiling low floor over high floor, lower ceiling players. That leads to a lot of busts. Sometimes, it's nice to maybe lock up a guy with a higher floor and a perceived lower ceiling. Those guys sometimes becomes superstars too - see Jose Ramirez. Baseball is a tricky game." That has clearly been the organizational philosophy for about a decade. Bmags responded to my post with: "In what world is this true?" So far, absolutely NOTHING about drafting was said. So the whole, Ray Ray doesn't read is nonsense. The entire formulation of this discussions delved from a comment made about a limited prospect signing with the Sox over others... and I said it's a breath of fresh air for the Sox to go after a high ceiling guy for once. BMags says since when? Then I point out about 100 players the Sox have acquired that were high ceiling, low floor with at on of risk. AFter all of that, he starts bringing up drafts from 15 years ago to support his point. So, no... I'm not the one who wasn't reading or misunderstood.

Yes, but these guys will tell you the Sox were drafting high floor guys... even though the only prospect they've had reach the majors from those draft classes and contribute is Tim Anderson who was the definition of high floor, low ceiling. Weird that they draft all these high floor guys and they never reach the big leagues... it's almost like, they weren't high floor guys.

No, I can claim their high ceiling because that's what the team targeted. In comparison to other rebuilding organizations, the Sox took a lot more risk with their player acquisitions. I posted one link from a source that isn't me, if that'll make it more "valid" to you.

Here you go: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-white-sox-big-bets-on-risk/ Soxtalk says the Sox don't target high ceiling, low floor guys though. Weird. You have to consider the source though, I guess...

No, I'm going off a guy with a 45/45/55/55/65 skill set. That's the scouting report. The same scouting report you said has him with only 1 plus tool when there are 3. So clearly you're not going off scouting reports... and scouting reports had Tatis at 45/40/55/50/50. How did that work out? Ironic to see the guy who said he doesn't want a guy with 1 tool say he was going off scouting reports that showed 3 + and 2 slightly below average.

The source? OK. I didn't skim over anything. I pointed out the Sox current philosophy for about 7-10 years now.. I don't care about 20 years ago. Sorry.

And I'm talking about an organizational philosophy TODAY and with this rebuild and modern organization; not picks from 15 years ago. It's quite obvious the Sox have been targeting guys with higher ceilings for about 10 years now.

They draft out of college more because the guy in charge of all of this has a college background. They aren't' drafting safe college players every year. They take a lot of risks with college guys.

Collins was not drafted to be a 1st baseman, and if he was he wouldn't have been drafted in the first round. Hence, the risk with the pick, and hence the shooting for the high ceiling.

Jared Mitchell wasn't even GOOD at LSU. I have no idea how you say he wasn't a high ceiling guy. Laughable really. There's nothing safe about getting a reliever with a top 8 pick. There was huge risk attached to Fulmer and Sale. Arguing otherwise is just pointless.

You literally call Collins a high floor guy and then say... if he doesn't catch, he's not an MLB player. He was a big risk to stick at catcher when they drafted him, so there was nothing high floor about him.

Who says they don't give him 2 million and sign 10 other guys between 250-750?

There was nothing safe about: Madrigal - Definitely fits the bill. Very high floor. Collins - Collins didn't have a high floor if he couldn't stick at catcher. He had a high ceiling because HE COULD stick at catcher. He was a risk there. Fulmer - Certainly didn't have a high floor as a starter - most thought he was a risk at that pick because of his delivery. Tim Anderson - the definition of high ceiling, very low floor, when drafted. Rodon - Pretty consensus, I'd say he had a very high floor but there also wasn't anyone they could have drafted with a higher ceiling. Courtney Hawkins - All tools, no productions. Definition of high ceiling terrible floor. Chris Sale - Risky pick, many thought he wouldn't stick as a starter. In the eyes of scouts, Chris Sale did not have a high floor as a starter. Jared Mitchell - The poster boy example for why college does not equal safer. He was about as high ceiling low floor as you get from a prospect. Beckham - He was a high floor guy, hence why he's still around. Clearly, in 2009 the White Sox changed their approach.

You've never seen him play. You have no idea where his skill set is headed. At this point, you're just complaining to complain.

College doesn't mean they attack high floor, low ceiling guys. This entire rebuild has been predicated on high ceiling, low floor guys. I honestly have no idea how anyone could argue otherwise. Moncada, Kopech, Cease, Giolito, Lopez, Rutherford, Robert - every single one of those guys were more tools and hype than production at the minor league level. They all had substantial bust risk attached to them because they were rated highly based on their tools, not their production. As I said, Fangraphs has written multiple pieces on this - regarding the White Sox rebuild direction, and how risky their top elite prospects were compared to other teams who have done the same thing.

Fangraphs has literally done a piece on how the White Sox focused on high ceiling, low floor guys, in this rebuild. But OK bud. I guess I couldn't be more wrong. When people say things like "you couldn't be more wrong" and then don't tell you why, it's kind of a pointless post.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Prospect rankings for guys in MiLB are inconsistent and unreliable; plenty of guys at the top bust, and plenty of the unranked ones become stars. This after watching these guys play professional baseball stateside. Prospect rankings for international prospects is even worse and less reliable; which is saying something. If you trust Paddy, then just sit back and relax. Ideally, a guy like Paddy, would prefer to sign 25 guys than a couple big ones. That's been his MO of success.

Doubtful he will be top 4 for the session starting July 2nd - more likely in the 7-10 range - but what does that matter? I hate to bring this up, as it's painful always... but Tatis was the 30th! ranked international prospect when the Sox signed him. His ceiling, in the eyes of SS2k, was less than Ozzie Guillen. It's not likely someone goes from Tatis to star but it's the exact reason you don't pigeon hole incredibly talented kids with some questions and limitations.

You are pigeonholing a prospect you know nothing about and have never seen play. That's absurd to me.

In this world. Their prospects, their drafting, all say this pretty clearly. I'm not sure what you're confused by. The organization had a draft philosophy of extremely toolsy but raw athletes - with great ceilings but dreadful floors. When they traded the farm, the acquired more tools and less production than the opposite; Moncada, Kopech, Cease etc etc. Those were high risk, high reward prospects. The Sox rarely play it safe. Robert was also a high risk, toolsy athlete, with feel issues. Madrigal is the first guy in a long time that fits the high floor demographic.

Would it really shock you if the Sox had an insider in Cuba that said the kid was likely leaving? Given the Sox prowess in Cuba, that would not shock me at all, and I know nothing about the international prospects so I'm not going to throw a fit that we got one guy over another.

You never know how any of these guys will pan out. The Sox have a history of always going high ceiling low floor over high floor, lower ceiling players. That leads to a lot of busts. Sometimes, it's nice to maybe lock up a guy with a higher floor and a perceived lower ceiling. Those guys sometimes becomes superstars too - see Jose Ramirez. Baseball is a tricky game.