cwsox

oh but patron saints do. Your definition of right is not the one that encompasses all the world. And to have someone with a cartoon figure in their avatar knock someone who made a humorous website for devoting time to whatever... as Sundance Kid said to Butch Cassidy, "just keep thinking kid, that's what you're good at."

that's pretty funny! you are a racist to imply that everyone who screams is someone who wears a confederate flag Did you see Letterman last night, with Dean and the Top 10 list? If Dean really were pumped up like that and got the Austrian accent down.............. Arnold!

once before I die I get to see someone agrees with me on something!!!!! your vast wisdom is exceeded only by your incredible intelligence and greater insight!

James Garner 30 years ago maybe -- you date yourself, mr baggio!

Bush or Chimp is hate? hate? and your analogy is beyond stupid.

ChiSoxyGirl, exactly, thank you! You do know that if one mocks a Democratic candidate or president, that is just good humor but to have fun with a Republican - well that just shcoks, shocks, the horror, the horror, how evil that it. Remember Dole in 1988 mocking Dukakis as having "Du-kock-eyed" ideas? Making fun of Dukakis because of his ethnic Greek name? And all the comments I have heard about Arkansas trailer trash... mocking a socio economic group and all the people in a state - indeed any look at American history would tell anyone that Bush or Chimp is as mild as it comes. The only reason that you will never see Bush and Curious George in a Bush or Chimp comparison is that Bush has no curiousity!

you are so full of s***

Spiff is attcking me, there, Kipper. He does not like Bush or Chimp. I have loved it from the first timne I saw it. Have my favorites. Kip, please realize that in all of American history never has a president been so attacked in such a classless mean evil way as in Bush or Chimp. Never has such childish (brutal) humor been used in all of American history (let alone anything that any Republican said about Clinton especially in the 2nd term) against a president as has been done to poor, poor Bush in the malicious, malevoent and so immature Bush or Chimp. My favorite is on page 2, one of the stuffed chimps and Bush. Whenever I need a laugh, it is Bush or Chimp for me. Keeps me from crying about the things he is doing to the country and the world. Next you will be told that people like me "hate" Bush because of things like Bush or Chimp, and how bad we are. I'll bet you a roll of canadian quarters that is coming soon. Put the words "Bush" and "Chimp" into google or any search engine and have many happy hours!

oh mercy a thread has been hijacked, especially by someone commenting on dumb and dumber - apu, shame on you, if dean gets knocked you must go along or say nothing and you dare not criticise the chimper. Bush or Chimp? You decide it is about bush now.

notice the silence on the lack of any WOMD which were such an imminent threat that people had to die in war

please continue to update I follow tennis and Australian Open news comes so late here it is like never getting it is Hewitt playing and has he gone out yet - and who is looking good in both draws - who is playing in mixed doubles of note, if anyone

all in all its just another brick in the wall

let me step in here (why I do not know) Jesus was a respected teacher, a rabbi by popular contemporary parlance, and Jesus embraced Judaism fully - Jesus never started another religion. The separation between Judiasm and Chriustianity came later by decades and certainly by the time of the fall of Jerusalem to Titus in 70 CE Paul reminds us in Romans that we Christians are but a branch on the tree of faith, that tree being, accoridng to Paul, Judaism. Christians should do well to remember our own Scriptures makes us the branch, not the tree itself. I would not expect anyone who follows Judaism to acknowledge or accept Jesus as anything more than a good teacher. Again citing Paul, Paul says some people know God by the Mosaic covenant and then there were those of us who couldn't grasp that so we know God through Jesus, the Christian covenant. There is more than one way to God - or should I say, more than one way God comes to us. The term "Christ killer" is offensive in the extreme and has been behind more pograms, hatred, and ultimately holocaust. A person is considered a Jew if the mother is Jewish. Being Jewish has nothing to do with keeping to the faith and/or religious practices of Judaism. Please resume insulting each other.

agreed but both shoot off their mouths, Wally choose the wrong time and place - had he waited just a few weeks...

well, now because you said that, it will!!!!!!!!!!

have no idea why he is shocked or why anyone else is either

I think we need a new thread to handle this since the other thrad has been hijacked for something other. By all rights I should have been a Dean supporter, but something held me back, a concern that something was questionable. The Iowa concession speech to be is like Dukakis in a helmet, Muskie crying about the attacks on his wife, Romney saying he was brainwashed on Vietnam - an instant campaign killer. I have been supporting Clark. Kerry has made an impressive comeback from being down in the polls and looks ready tot ake on the worlld. Soxheads choice of Edwards seems very wise in that Edwards has been running an impressive campaign of optimism and hope and refusing to go negative. I think that after the South Carolina and other primaries in early February and the Michigan caucus on February 7th that we will be down to those three real candidates. Dean should eb thanked for energizing the pre-voting campaign season and getting everyone fired up. It is time for him to step away - hardest thing to do foir a competitor - but time. The voters will tell him that, in my opinion. The polling of the caucus participants was also fascinating. People were voting not on who agreed with them most but in choosing the best possible candidate. That is a shift from the way those decisions are usually made. The electorate is stirring in unusual ways. Intertesting to see how it comes out.

Danman, I remember you taking shots at me for a long time. Ain't no thing. Spiff and I have been exchanging views at length and that shows a mutual respect for each other to keep talking and listening which perhaps you don't understand - no invective, no insults, no f*** yous, just the frank exchange of opinions where we disagree. Were I to think I am always right, I would not be on a message board. I have been in dialogue with Spiff to learn from him. I think Spiff writes well and with passion, too. The board should be more like that. You want to take shots at my writing style or me personally? Go to it. And indeed, I do know a great deal. So do many others here. Many know things that I do not know. I know a few things others do not know. That is what makes a community. To say more would be to return your insults in kind so I won't. Have a pleasant evening.

What I really miss from you Spiff is the conection of heart and mind. If this mythical love left you because you were New Jersey to her, I doubt you would be so blase. And is life only a matter of zero based gains and losses? With all respect for you - which I have, our conversation has been extended and searching and exploring and free and frank - I suggest that whether it means anything to you whether the Sox move or not, a sense of compassion for those 16-1.9 million who go every year to whom going to see their team is a part of their life more so than it is yours, that compassion for how they would feel would be commendable. Jas has made some good points. So perhaps have you and so perhaps have I. I ask again: is there more important things in life than the balance sheet? I am turning in. While we have been having this conversation, I have been workling on a sermon for a community service for Sunday afternoon that I am preaching. The largest plant in our community - employs 2700 in a town of 8000 - that has been here since the 19th century just announced they are being shut down by their foreign corporate owners because if they move they can save $81 million a year but if they stay and accept the incentive offers from the city and state they would only save $76 million a year. So 2700 people will lose their jobs in a rural area where they are no other jobs in one of the highest unemployment states in the country so a Swedish corporation, Electrolux, can make an additional $5 million a year. Are there more important things than a balance sheet? But trust me, the Electrolux issue has nothing to do with my deep passion for not seeing the Sox move. I have lived through moving scares too many times - that is an issue for me. The Sox belong in Chicago at Comiskey/USCF. I have seen them at Comerica, Tiger Stadium, Wrigley, Miller - can see them lots of places but home is at 35th and Shields and I do indeed hope I die with them still resident there - so I can have 60% of my ashes deposted there (the other 40%, the Big House). Good talking to you, Spiff. Take care, and good night.

"Random analogy" is your way of saying you have nothing to say when you want it both ways? Reality is that there is no Santa Claus. Are you advocating teaching children to believe in fantasy? I believe in teaching them reality. And reality includes consistency. There have many times when owners have shown incredible loyalty to their communities. And many times not. Jas mentions O'Malley, I believe - I doubt anyone in Brooklyn would call him loyal. I wouldn't, not all. But to really study baseball history - sports history - human history - is to discover that people are incredibly complex and have a variety of motives. JR has been so often accused of overly being loyal - to Krause, to Frank, to Selig, to whomever he has been charged with being overly loyal to at any moment. He has never shown any signs of disloyalty to the Sox fans or Chicago, in fact, the opposite. He can be faulted or second guessed for many things but lack of loyalty? What makes that whole issue incredibl;y amusing is the number of posts we have from people who think (1) JR should spend money and (2) no one should go to games until he does. The totally mutally exclusiveness of those positons escapes some. Others say (1) get rid of Frank because he has declined and anyone who says keep Frank out of loyalty is not smart and (2) JR is not loyal to us or (2a) Frank is not loyal to us or (2b) something else. Whatever JRs faults, loyalty is not something he has lacked. However, Trump is a man who has made a career out of lack of loyalty. White guys with big hair who act like they are the big s***s in the world and buy what they want (Trump, Cuban, etc) always get a certain fan club - maybe people want to be like them. Fine. But a Trump will show no loyalty whatsoever to Chicago fans - but as you stated, you don't care. Right now there are thousands of Net fans who are crushed their team is being taken from them - where this all began - and you mocked New Jersey. Fine. You care nothing for New Jersey nor for Chicago baseball tradition. If the Sox are a movable commodity to you - well, they are, you said so. By my way of thinking, you are the one with no loyalty - it seems to me that were you to be an owner, you'd sell out anywhere to get a better deal. Here is another random analogy. You fall in love with a woman. You marry her. She cheats on you and leaves you for another man because she gets a better offer. Who could blame her? You are merely New Jersey to her, you are Chicago, and what was that to her when her Trump came along? Or would you feel betrayed, that love and your commitment to her should have counted for something? Is there something greater in the balance of life than money? Is there something more important than making the best deal at any moment? As you stated, you don't care about the Sox staying in Chicago. You feel nothing for the fans in NJ who lost their team and all teams are, are movable financial commodities to you except your FSU team and if one speaks of them that is a "random analogy." Oh well.

if it were closer to you, it wouldn't be the Chicago White Sox. Such cynicism in someone your age is sad. There has been loyalty in sports and in the Sox despite your decimation of history. But to take the emotion out of it, how about I am going to really hope that FSU loss every game to Miami and Florida from now until forever until your admit that there is a place for loyalty and emotion in sports. Funny you were the guy who thought it was so great when th FSU players were jumping up and down on the Florida Gator thing on the field and you thought that was a fine expression of a great moment of sports and it got you going. What makes that game great? Why don't you become a Miami fan? You value success over everything else and they kick FSUs ass all the time - what is loyalty to you? Why aren't you switching to Miami and show me what happens when you have a chance for "a better situation"?

That is so full of s*** that to be honest I didn't even read the rest of your post. The Sox are not an intellectual, theororetical proposition to the vast majority of fans. The Sox are not something that do not really exist. Friends go to games together. Families go to games together. The memories that are at the corner of 35th and Shields - have you ever been there - are not something that is irrelevant, movable, transient. Loyalty - loyalty to what is a vital center of the life of thosuands of people - is far more important than the ponderings of someone who has no emotional investment and would play games with peoples lives as if they have no meaning. Life may have no loyalty to you. I have pity for you. But it is too easy and too flippant to be so blase about something that has deep meaning for so many people. Loyalty and faithfulness count. Where people go with the families and friends for their important times together, that is loyalty and faithfulness. That is what counts.

one of the Sox future managers

It would devastate a lot of people. More than just too bad for them. I don't live in Chicago either. They could put the team in Grand Rapids and it would be great for me but it wouldn't be the White Sox anymore. A team is not just a corporation that can be moved there, moved here. whatever. A team is an intregal part of the community where it is from. The Sox are Chicago - the franchise in another city would not be the same Sox. Teams are not movable pieces on a chessboard, they become the heart of where they are. And they are in the heart of the people who have lived their lives with them. Boston has Sox, Cincinnati has Red Stockings, but neither team is the Sox we love. Put them elsewhere and they are not the team we love. And f*** new found opportunties. Loyalty and faitfuhlness mean a lot more than being a prostitute for a few dollars more.