cwsox

Does it matter? Saddam said he had, and according to the UN-resolution was supposed to have, 0. it does matter in that 3 -4 non scud missiles are hardly the teports we had of scuds raining down on Kuwait BBC has very hesitant to call them scuds, thus my wondering if they are. If they weren't scuds then the violation you cite doesn't exist. I am listening to BBC now and hope to hear more on this and will let you know.

Maybe CNN got it wrong - or maybe reported on a question not included in this article, such as "do you support the troops" or something such that the numbers would run higher than the question posed in this article. These polls are always snap shots of a moment and it does matter what the question actually is. Even "do you support the president at this time" will/may yield a very different result than "do you support the president taking military action" vs "do you support the president taking military action without UN approval" vs "do you support the president taking military action if casualties number in the 1,000s" So whether some reporter who is filling air time gets the grasp of the question exactly right, who knows. And these numbers may be all over the place on any given day right now. And it should be cold comfort the G W H Bush rode a 91% approval rating at one point and then mustered 39% of the vote. If someone is doing continual tracking polls with fair questions over abse of time, I am not aware. I woudlbe a s curious as you what those numbers would be. I suspect that we both know where the majority will li at this raly around the flag moment. The extent to which it rises is the number I am looking at. This poll at 62% suggests not very highly and a nation deeply divided. And that nation if deeply divided - been there, done that in the 60s - I had hoped never to see those days again. And I think they are here. Not good for you, or me, or our country.

Are you a Black hawk fan? You know I am Red Wing fan. Can we agree that in the sports arena we can agree on flipping off Le Habs fans, Maple Leaf fans, and all other fans of teams that play the teams we love? I am not worried about BH fans flipping of RW fans because you be home for the playoffs and we be playing, eh. Or maybe we should save our :fyou for Twins, yankees, and cubs fan who so richly deserve it!

Matthew my brother, I know how you feel. I once believed that the USSR would fall without the need to go to war, without violence, and that Eastern Europe would be liberated. In fact, in January 1982 my family (wife and children) took part in a demonstration that walked right down Lake Shore Drive to surround the Polish embassy on LSD to protest the Soviet imposition of the Jarazelski government and to support Solidarity. No one seemed to care that we demonstrated by the way. And how people mocked us for thinking that the Soviet Union and its grip on Eastern Europe would be eliminated without war, without nuclear war, without decades of standoffs. A little over 7 years later the Iron Curtain fell without a shot, from within. Two years later the USSR imploded. Having seen the USSR collapse and former Warsaw Pact nations become NATO members, again without war, I am very sure that handled properly a petty tyrant like Saddam could go the same way. Like the Shah fell, like the apartheid government of South Africa fell, like all the countries of Eastern Europe showed, it comes from within. We did nothing to strengthen the resistance of the Iraqi people themselves so that they could bring down their own government. And we conveniently have forgotten what happens historically when the US overthrows a governemnt from without, not from within, to impose a "friendly" one. Guatamala, Chile, so many times, this means nothing to a tv educated generation. Let people rap on you, apu, me, doubleM, whoever all they want. The blood lust is high right now. No one needs to say anything in my defense because I believe in something that is stronger than any weapon of war, and that is not just idealism, I have seen it work in our lifetimes. I have heard it all before. Hang in my friend - I value your friendship and we all now the bashing that we will be getting. Take a break but stay in touch off list if you wish and stay around on the baseball threads. At least we have the option of moving to the other side of the boards. And thank you for taking the time to say what you ahve said. It means a lot to me tonight, and has helped me in my own soul.

How old were you when Canada smuggled US diplomats out of Iran? canada has been a long and faithful ally of ours - until this. That may mean something. The :fyou way of thinking - by what right? By what right? What gives anyone the moral; superiority to say :fyou to a whole people because someone or some group expressed their opinion in the forum that became available that they disagree with the current US policy? Now it is :fyou to all Canada and our own friends because they booed - do they say :fyou back and we get in :fyou contest that drives away even further a country that has so long been our friend? You show disrespect to them because you perceive disrespect and it gets returned and returned and returned and who wins? By what moral right are Canadians who booed wrong and Americans who say :fyou right? Perhaps the way to show that we are right - if we are - is to act like we aren't threatened by some members at a crowd who boo. A secure nation laughs those things off. What does it really matter? Get into a pissing contest and who wins? Friends are lost - friends you need someday, friends we need right now because we share a long and important border with Canada and we need them to maintain total security on that border. Let's say f*** you and forget the fact that we yet need Canada and they have earned the right to not be blasted because of the free speech rights of some fans, perhaps drunk, at a sports event.

There has been much discussion as whether these are scuds. Of course I am getting that news from BBC and not Fox. And what are the numbers of whatever has been lobbed? Are we looking at 3 or 4 or hundreds?

The US should pass a budget and with it enabling legislation for taxes to pay for what is being done. And I can't post a smiley here. There is no such thing as free lunch - there is no such thing as a free war. You all have committed to a lot of things. The price will have to be paid. One problem with driving away your allies is you pay the price alone.

The poll results do not show that "70-80%" of Americans support the war. I'd be very careful of citing exactly what is being supported. I enclose a news article from the NYTimes. And I would suggest that a 62% poll is quite low for a rally around the flag moment. Second, if 70-80% did support the action it wouldn't by that alone make it right or moral. Third, the Congress is right now ramming through tax cuts and budgets with record deficits that yet do not include the cost of this war. We are looking at a $500 billion to $1 trillion annual deficit. I'd like to hear some rational explanation of not only how the American economy is to to absorb this, but as well, what does it mean to support something that at the exact same moment no one seemingly wants to pay for. Fourth, Turkey has now moved troops in Kurdish territory. Ramifications of this are very numerous. In the general glee that predominates here, this can be dismissed but in reality it has potential for the greatest possible harm to everything that has been claimed in terms of "liberation" and short of going to war with Turkey, given the dismissiveness towards the UN, there will no way to force them out. One more sign of the diasterous diplomacy of the curent administration which the pinball images on tv have distracted so many from. And finally, tonight it was announced that 7,000 military sites in Iraq will be bombed in the next few hours. Think about that. Are there 7,000 military sites in Iraq? What is included in that number: power stations, water and sewage treatment plants, food storage areas. You do not have to bomb a hospital to shut it down, friends. Oh yes we will rebuild it (but who is paying with the huge deficits - which of you will support raising taxes let alone stopping tax cuts so all of these glorious things you promsie may be paid for?) but in the meantime people will suffer and die. Take away water, take away power, and the spead of disease and death will run unhindered. And an addition finally: this is like cheering with a big lead in the top of the 2nd. Oh yes we have great tv video clips. This hasn't played out yet in any form. And we prepared for the response. It took a small number of crazed terrorists who avoided all the sophisticated technology to take revenge on September 11th for things they felt aggrieved for from 10 years prior. And in less than two years we have alienated a large part of the world that was all with us after September 11th. Dismiss it as you will. Who cares. But this nation is what, 6% of the world's population? The mail that I am getting from overseas is not good news for anyone who thinks a Pax Americana is on the horizon. There were other ways. There were other ways. This adminsitartion backed itself into a corner. You all may celebrate but tonight I am crying because in the last week the future of everything that means peace and security for this nation which I love, and for the world, is threatened to new and unparalleled degrees. And in the past months we have lost a lot of friends with heavy handed tactics. The lust of the young for war and blood and victory can be so high. You have yet begun to pay the prices for what has been done. Most Americans Support Iraq Action, Poll Finds By MARJORIE CONNELLY Most Americans approve of the military action the United States initiated against Iraq, but they think the outbreak of the conflict has increased the threat of terrorism against Americans, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. Americans greeted the start of the war with more concern than relief and were divided on whether the opening salvos against Iraq matched their expectations. Advertisement A majority — 62 percent — of the adults surveyed on Thursday night think the United States was right in starting military action, while 35 percent said the United Nations and the weapons inspectors should have been given more time. In 1991, the outbreak of war against Iraq received a higher level of support from Americans. In the Times/CBS News poll taken the day after the bombing began in January 1991, 79 percent said the United States was correct in starting military action and only 16 percent felt it would have been better to wait to see if the trade embargo worked. In the latest Times/CBS News poll, 59 percent said the onset of hostilities has increased the threat of terrorism against the United States and only 8 percent thought the risk has decreased. But, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, also conducted last night, 65 percent of Americans do not "personally feel any sense of danger from terrorist acts." Regardless of the lack of fear for their personal safety, most Americans reacted to the war with worry rather than relief. Just over half, 54 percent, said they felt more worried when they heard the news, while 34 percent were relieved. The CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll asked the public whether they experienced a series of emotions on hearing the news that the United States was going to war. In response, 83 percent said they felt confident; 65 percent felt proud; 63 percent reacted with sadness; 56 percent were worried; and 34 percent were afraid. Americans were divided on whether the beginning of hostilities against Iraq matched their expectations of the start of the war. In the Times/CBS News poll, 49 percent said it started much as they expected and 44 percent thought it would have begun differently.

my heart says they may my brain says they may not but my gut says go for it Go Chips!

so let's shoot all the people who practice the right to freedom to assemble - another right to appreciate but not use! Lets make every day Kent State Day!

I haven't been that naive since I was 6. Of course our bombs only fall on the right places and kill the right people. Peace out.

Now if only Bush had let us all the day and time in advance so that we could have gotten parade permits it would all be ok. And anyone who thinks the history of Chicago with antiwar people has been anything but kind is a flaming lefty who should be shot. But since he didn't, damn those people for having an opinion that they cared enough to express, damn them. That thing in the constitution was meant for them, it was only meant for the right kind of people.

DoubleM are you accusing peoiple of self-proclaimed bigotry? How dare you? Haven't you heard that it is the anti-war crowd that is guilty of everything and the pro war people are pure and spotless and without sin, without wrong, without any blemish. Hatred for those who do not do what we wnat is the only perfect way to be! Have you learned nothing? Now if someone from France were to post why they hate Americans, that would be evil. But it is blessed of God to say the opposite, and the American way, because we are sinless and pure and without fault and God has chosen us to judge the rest of the world. Get with the program, you gay hippie frenchie commie Saddam cock sucking hairy armpit loving quiche eating crepe smoking beret wearing antiAmerican. :fyou

Oh Baggio, poor guy, you have been so picked on. I am so glad that the pro-war people have been so above name calling and casting aspersions and making comparisons of beinmg apologists for Hitler and every other such thing. The pro war side has been so noble and pure and spotless and holy. You poor, poor guy to have suffered so from the hands of the evil peaceniks, the bastards, I hope bad things happen to them. You've been through so much - how do you bear it?

because people don't like to think that anyone disagrees with them visual proof that people disagree gives a focus for venting

I only said they "may not" beat Creighton. Just wanted to say - all of you who picked against Central Michigan, I tried to tip you! I just like bringing this up!

Steff and cali, you both got it - some of the stuff is funnier as hell, some of it is angrier than anything and he has his reasons (don't we all) and he certainly experiments with different things - loved reading both your posts!

I do SJD too, I only happened to do SPD this year because I happened to be on town. Went to the opera with Larry, you mt him, my best friend since high school, and from 1965 through 2002 I had never said SPD to him but I did this year and he was shocked - now that I did SPD once in my life never again. I did a bigger than usual SJD thing though to atone. We love each opther and respect each other and also remember those things before we disagree toio much, and in light of love, and respect, and the White Sox, what the f*** dies a disagreement mean ion anything? Besides all Italians disagree. Verdi vs Puccini - Gucci vs Pucci - Armani v Sacchi - spaghetti sauce vs spaghetti gravy - it is just our nature! Ever use cottage cheese instead of ricotta in your lasgna and we have a real knock down drag out though!

had to have it turned off during the opera, damn it, I wanted to talk to you, dear friend, most beautiful of all the hot sox fans, hottest of the hot, and most knowledgable of them all - wanted to say Happy SPD and talk to the boys too, haven't done that since the opera we went to - I want to plan a trip to see my sister who lives a ferw blocks from you and then see you guys, maybe with the randson with me, for some non baseball friendship where I don't have to wave my sock and you yell at Frank to line up right every couple of minutes!!!!! Love you all so much and missing you ----

1. Clueless you are - my son was raised to do what in his conscience was good and right between him and his God and he is and I am damned pround of him for makinhg his mind up on his own, without pressure from me to confrom to what I beleive, but to have his own decisions. And he is pleased with me because he knows that I do what in good conscience with God, I do what I need to do, and he knows he has love and respect, and he returns the same, and he can handle two thoughts at the same time. Do you for one second think that I don't passionately want him and all marines, soldiers, naval and air force people to be safe, to be protected, to be safe and return home safely? You are so f***ing ignorant of anything beyond our own prejuidices. Life is far more complex than you ability to imagine. 2. Won't argue with you on that at all. You win. You are. I agree with you.

HSC, as you know I was at the Lyric Opera on Monday night cause I called you (you never called back ) and as you know it stands in the shadow of the Sears Tower. Do any of us look at it anymore and not imagine planes slamming into it? Nothing on the ground would save it and as you say the area of devastation would be vast. I think those at the opera, at least, the waiting crowds outside, would be crushed in the downfall of debris. What would have prevented September 11th were if the ticket agents had fololowed their SOP: groups of people paying cash at the kast minute for one way tickets are by those facts alone more than suspicious, met the terrorst profile, to not take their money and call security. It was not done, to sell a few more seats, or becase they slipped up on their job, violated procedure. Some airline personnel who did not do their SOP caused a lot of damage in so many many ways beyond the lives lost that day.

Jason, I have been out there through the years - I have also marched with the Chicago Police for two-officer squad cars, with the Native Americans to return unused federal land according to treaty, for money for cancer research, for choice in the abortion issue, for civil rights, and for Jesus Christ as Savior of All. Also talked to plenty of people on the other side of all those issues. There are indeed loons on all sides and I think the % is about the same. I was also at a Sly and the family Stone free concert in Grant park that was tear gassed by the Chicago police where they forced the crowd across Lake Shore Drive in rush hour without stoipping tarffic so I get a perverse pleasure in seeing LSD blocked off. Again, I have marched for the police and have a LA deputy sheriff cousin shot and killed in the line of duty so I am not anti police. Hell, you can sit with fans at Comiskey who still think Norton is on the team. I suppose sometimes we should be happy people show up. Sorry your exepreinces had a higher %% of loons than normal. Try again. I don't doubt your experience at all because I know that everyone out there is not there for a reason they can express. But think of al;l of those who woudl, like to be there but couldn't, who could articulate their reasons well. So it evens out. Now congratulate me on my touting Central Michigan to beat Creighton. Did you follow my tip, or did you go Creighton in your bracket?

so does the St Patricks Day parade, Columbus Day Parade, Bub Billiken parade, and the crowds at every Sox, Bulls, Cuibs and Bears game (Hawks too few fans to count) so what's the point? Abolish them all? Or is that life in the big city, especially constitutionally protected life?

ill bet he enjoys it too much then.......... HSC, you kick him in the ass - he hasn't been kicked in the ass until he's been kicked by you - and you know how to handle those Italian smoothies

Yes Jason and when thre Oscars are held all that police security will be there rather than protecting the public - traffic gets jammed, cops handling traffic at every Sox game all kinds of police are deployed to handle traffic rather than fight crime - and traffic tie ups happen when the president travels the tie ups of police personnal and traffic jams are horrendous the St Patricks Day parade pulls all kinds of cops off of usual duty for marching or for crowd control - favor locking the president in the white house and doing away with everything else, or are you just critical of deployed resources when it is people expressing their constitutional right to assemble?