South Side Hit Men

I'd trade it for Bobby Bonilla's remaining contract ($1.19M per year each July 1 through 2035). No brainer considering inflation / time value of money. And thanks again Hawk Harrelson for trading Bobby Bonilla for Jose DeLeon.

[Narrator] Eloy returned to Left Field in 2023, only to be injured yet again.

"Players and coaches alone don't win championships; organizations win championships." - Jerry Krause Tony! Toni! Tone! .544 Saint Louis 1408-1182 .542 Oakland 673-542 .515 * Chicago A. L. 691-650 (* 677-643 .513 excluding Miguel Cairo's 2021 (1-1) and 2022 (13-6) managed games). White Sox (World Series Championships and Pennants) .667 Miguel Cairo .592 Fielder Jones (1906 World Series) .581 Clark Griffith (1901 AL Pennant - Pre World Series) .578 Pants Rowland (1917 World Series) .565 Marty Marion .564 Al Lopez (1959 AL Pennant) .551 Gene Lamont .529 Paul Richards .525 Bob Lemon .524 Ozzie Guillen (2005 World Series) .521 Eddie Collins .519 Kid Gleason (1919 World Series) .515 Jerry Manuel .515 Jeff Torborg .513 Billy Sullivan .513 Tony La Russa (sans Miguel Cairo managed games)

Also sucks it's likely Tony will still be in Chicago when the team plays tomorrow. 2022 White Sox: 12-3 .800 Miguel Cairo - Tony Gawn 63-65 .492 Tony La Russa Manager 1-3 .250 Miguel Cairo - Tony in Person Day of Game (8/31, 9/11, 9/13, 9/14)

I'm with you on a lot of this, but disagree wholeheartedly that the Cardinals are not the team we should emulate or economically can match. The White Sox and Cardinals have had similar payrolls (sans the three "tanking" seasons), and the White Sox do not have a large market team like the Cubs in their division. The highest payrolls by decade for the Cardinals are $100M (2008), $163M (2019) and $163M (2021). The highest payrolls by decade for the White Sox are $121M (2008), $128M (2011) and $193M (2022). MLB Annual Payroll Ranks (World Series Years in Bold Italics, Division Titles in Bold, Tanking Years Stricken): Cardinals (2000-2022): 2000s (11, 9, 13, 8, 9, 6, 11, 10, 12, 13) 2010s (12, 10, 8, 12, 14, 12, 10, 14, 10, 7) 2020s (10, 10, 13) White Sox (2000-2022): 2000s (25, 14, 18, 22, 14, 13, 5, 5, 5, 11) 2010s (7, 12, 11, 23, 15, 16, 23, 29, 26) 2020s (17, 15, 7) The reason the Cardinals are consistently successful is the fact they have always had a solid organization. Ownership doesn't meddle in day to day or engage in feuds and pettiness, they hire the best front office available, and they have a scouting and development organization in place that identifies, develops and promotes quality cost effective players. They can also identify and trade for quality ML players in their prime (Goldschmidt, Arenado). The White Sox don't have any of that. The White Sox need that. It's the missing piece. It's the piece Cleveland and Tampa has so they can compete with a fraction of the White Sox and Cardinals payrolls. Hahn had 10 years to build an organization and has not come through. Kenny didn't either during his 12 years. The Cardinals consistently call up mid round draft picks who come up and kick ass. Where is White Sox Tommy Edman (2016 6th Round, 6.5 bWAR)? Where is White Sox Brendan Donvan (2018 7th Round, 3.2 bWAR)? Hell, where is White Sox Lars Nootbaar (2018 8th Round, 1.9 bWAR in 94 Games)? Nearly all of the White Sox young core was identified and largely developed externally, obtained when Hahn pawned off everything in 2016. The fact that Hahn wasn't able to supplement in part internally, and filling in the remaining gaps via free agency, is the core reason the Sox rebuild is stuck in neutral. I'll follow this up with a post or thread on how the 2022 White Sox were constructed.

Wonder how much Tony has played a role in these answers, and whether a potential change in manager and possibly GM would convince him to return. Just immensely grateful he came and played to the best of his abilities every single game for yet another season. Just a few other Sox you can say the sane this season. ?

I would take that in a heartbeat, a 5th/6th/7th starter with a 4-5 ERA and can handle 80-100 + IP is valuable. The Sox have no room at DH. Sheets should never play OF, not even good at 1B. It's a win just getting an actual RF to play RF, which will benefit the entire staff. You can't have Sheets and Vaughn/Eloy starting in the OF if you are attempting to field a potential championship team. Preferable to have none of the three play OF, one is the absolute max you can get away with.

Or if Hahn had a third starter available (or second good one). Still think Jerry was setting the table for Ricky by unleashing his hounds (Stone, Garfine, Ozzie) against Ricky in 2020. Jerry already knew he was hiring Tony well before the playoffs. His BFF was facing unemployment and no future job prospects once his DUI was made public. Even if the Sox won the WS, could still see Jerry replacing Ricky with Tony. Jerry wouldn’t care about the public’s reaction. Jerry picked Krause over Phil Jackson. Jackson left to win five more titles with the Lakers. Krause went with Tim Floyd. The rest is history.

It is very interesting when you dive into it. I just think most fans would hate it. Grandal vs. McCann is nearly a wash salary (2 years vs. 1) and health wise. McCann would be an upgrade in terms of game prep and defense over Grandal, regardless if either bat improves. I don’t know enough about McGill or Peterson, but like that both are young and may have potential. Still hate to give up on Kopech. If he is healthy, he is the best player in this deal in terms of years under control. Which McNeil are you getting (5 WAR or 1-2 WAR) and are the Sox doing other smart moves to truly compete the next two years are the two big open questions / deal makers/breakers.

I agree with all five of @VAfan's positional analysis. At least he covered 2B (agree FA pickings slim this offseason), something Hahn has failed to do. The Sox were fixable last offseason (Fire Tony, Hahn, FO. Swap out older players for youth. Improve analytics (defense, shifting & hitting approach). The Sox are fixable this offseason. (Fire Tony, Hahn, FO. Swap out older players for youth. Improve analytics (defense shifting & hitting approach). The Sox have several solid to great young players, and a half dozen veterans who could put together good to great seasons. If they bring in a savvy FO and manager/coaching staff, they can reverse the La Russa curse, and even overcome the disadvantage of facing a much harder road next season (losing 24 games vs. the AL Central (76 to 52)). They must begin construction of a new organization successful at selection, development and promotion of young players on a consistent basis, while also assessing internal and external major league talent. While that may take a few years to come to fruition, in the interim the FO can make a few trades and FA pickups to address current shortfalls, build depth, and move a few players you feel won't contribute / aren't good team players. Solid Core 2023 & Beyond - Italics = Not on 40 Man Roster. Batters: Oscar Colas, Eloy Jimenez, Yoan Moncada, Luis Robert, Andrew Vaughn. Pitchers: Aaron Bummer, Dylan Cease, Garrett Crochet, Michael Kopech, Reynaldo Lopez. Potential Solid Young Contributors: Jake Burger, Romy Gonzalez, Jimmy Lambert, Davis Martin, Cristian Mena, Colson Montgomery, Bryan Ramos, Lenyn Sosa, Norge Vera. Veterans who can contribute here and/or via trade return: FA Jose Abreu, Tim Anderson, FA Johnny Cueto, Lucas Giolito, Kendall Graveman, Liam Hendricks, Lance Lynn, Seby Zavala. Veterans hoping to salvage or DFA: Jake Diekman, Matt Foster, Leury Garcia, Yasmani Grandal, Joe Kelly, AJ Pollock. Veterans who they should trade/release after the season: Elvis Andrus, Adam Engel, Josh Harrison, Carlos Ruiz, Bennet Sousa, Gavin Sheets, Vince Velasquez. That's all I have without knowing who remains in Sox management, who they tender / non tender before the offseason, and which FAs are available.

Abreu is on another planet compared to what Baines, Fisk and Konerko were at the time the Sox cut and first trade Baines, respectively, and gave Konerko one last contract. Abreu has a 4.0 bWAR, just short of double that of the second best Sox hitter (Robert 2.1). Cease is the only Sox who has outperformed Abreu (5.7) this season. Abreu was solid last season (3.0 bWAR), and MVP in 2020. Baines had a 2.6 bWAR in 1989, and 1.3 and 1.7 the two prior years. Fisk was 45 and a negative 0.7 bWAR when he was released. Konerko had a negative 1.3 bWAR before his final one year 2014 contract. If he returns on a one year plus team option, I think they should bring Abreu back. He's not going to get a higher offer externally, and Jerry will do whatever Abreu wants (play or move to the organization in a different capacity). Quite frankly, he's earned it, the only Sox player over the past decade who has walked the walk.

Perhaps you are overlooking: "to light a fire of comprehensive changes for the entire organization" Most believe the scratch off lottery chances of Jerry making the correct hires to replace Hahn and Tony have higher odds than the lotto odds of the Sox winning four postseason series this season against far better teams than they have faced since Tony left.

It's $12M now, $13M after the idiot Sox send him to the plate 7 more times. $14M if he gets 57 plate appearances the final 2 1/2 weeks. Only the Dodgers would consider eating that, and Friedman/Gomes would likely outsmart / screw over Hahn again by giving them back a more onerous contract as they did with Kimbrel.

Went to MLB Trade Values to see their valuation of Pablo Lopez, one of the pitchers I wanted the Sox to target for Eloy, and came across this trade that 99% of Soxtalk would Go Apeshit if Hahn did this. I don't think Hahn would make it out of Comiskey alive, and no jury would convicted the mob. Mets Trade: 2B J McNeil ($21.1), SP Tylor Megill ($11.1), SP David Peterson ($6.1), SP Jose Butto ($2.2) and C James McCann (minus $17.2M) White Sox Trade: SP Michael Kopech ($17.8) SP Lucas Giolito ($12.6), RP Tanner Banks ($2.2M), C Yasmani Grandal (minus $10.2M).

I fear DHing is only a temporary arrangement due to his leg issues, and that he’ll be back in LF until he is injured next season. Wish he could play 1B, but he’s too clumsy, not sure if Vaughn will be able to handle 1B well on a regular basis

Still better than Cleveland's availability. Clase and Stephan went the past two games, everyone else also went yesterday with Morgan (9) the only reliever under 10 pitches. They also have Cody Morris starting, who has averaged 3 1/3 over his three starts. Can see Tito punting like he did Thursday against the Sox, if Ryan pitches well for Minnesota.

Drew Carey doing a happy dance tonight.

I can't recall the last White Sox game this riveting.

I can't believe Fulmer got out of that jam.

Minnesota sucks balls.

I was at that game. Booed David Wells, the only Sox I've ever booed. Thought he was puking and drunk. Carlos Lee was so underrated here. Doubtful Eloy ever approaches Carlos Lee's 28.3 bWAR. Robert has a chance if he is able to finally stay healthy. (Abreu is 3.5 bWAR ahead of Carlos).

So Bummer gets the 11th? Diekman, Ruiz and Velasquez the other available options.

Ha, the Sox start both innings with their catcher at second base.

“You want me to fix this guy too Rick? Do you ever sign a guy who doesn’t need to be fixed?”