greg775

Great post. That's why I was posting that our fans of the rebuild don't want to contend until every position player is a star and we are projected to cruise to the WS title. The basis of the Sox rebuild is to have superstars or stars at virtually every position. And they get a lot of projected stars as is: Stars to superstars: C-Collins. 3B-Moncada. SS-Tim. 2B-Madrigal. 1B-Vaughn. DH-Burger. LF-Eloy. CF-Robert. RF-Star to be acquired if Rutherford isn't a star. Pitchers- for some reason they will allow mere mortals to be projected as part of the rotation but certainly there's hope this group will include several stars or superstars: Cease, Gio, Kopech, Lopez, Bummer reliever. Colome good nuff closer. If the above mentioned every day players aren't star caliber, Hahn is gone. There doesn't appear to be as much depth down on the farm as we thought there'd be, though we get another top draft pick next year.

Not til the new owners take over I hate to say. We're not competing during the proposed window of this current tank/rebuild.

Modern baseball is crazy. They are going to have to develop new ways to determine if a player is good or not that don't involve boring techno advanced stat digits. Pitchers going five innings or six is ridiculous. Nobody can go deep in games. Four pitcher no hitters? Wow. I wonder how many one pitcher no hitters we're going to have in the future? It's going to take awfully low pitch counts to pull it off. I bet 110 pitches is the ultimate max. That's about 12 pitchs an inning. I guess it's do-able,

I don't hear the stat people clamoring about ERA when discussing pitchers. Is ERA indeed still safe? As far as what I said with my posting of all those pitchers, I would think if you look at all those starting pitchers who won, I bet most of their W/L was better than the runnerups. I didn't look at all the contenders. But like I said even in the past few seasons except for Felix Hernandez and deGrom you could point to W/L as being the deciding factor in Cy Young. I'd be interested in hearing from the advanced statters which pitchers listed did not deserve it despite great W/L records and ERA. I'm trying to say advanced stats are more important to the GMs in designing shifts defensively and baseball strategy (training everybody to hit home runs or strikeout; demanding they not steal bases) than they are to color announcers in the game.

I listed virtually all the Cy Young winners since the 60s and over 90 percent of them won it because of W/L and ERA. What does that tell the naysayers???? Wins and losses have been considered pretty damn important by baseball's decision makers!

Amazing how little the Sox have been able to do in the Central Division throughout history considering all the inherent advantages of playing in a big city like Chicago and all the other crap organizations in our division. Really sad the Sox have stunk so much going against Cleveland, Detroit, KC and Minnie. Can you imagine if we had a good owner and good front office going against those teams?

I can admit I was wrong. John Jay against all odds (injury) has done a nice job for the Sox. Not so sure why we needed him this tank year, but I can't let this go uncorrected. I was wrong. I despised him and was wrong in doing so. He's a pretty good professional hitter who appears to be a smart grinder if you will.

Sir, My point is, believe it or not, W/L and simple ERA still are the standards for Cy Young. deGrom looks like one of the only outliers. Also, sir, closers still are in the running if they get a lot of saves. Of course strikeouts could be used as well for starters but look at all the winners. They are either starters, sir, with great W/L records and great ERAs or closers with a ton of saves. Almost no exceptions! Yes in the old days it was automatic, but you see the same pattern nowadays for the most part. What do you say to this research, sir??

I don't want to fight. However, your basic premise is something very very rudimentary. Everybody has known for years, decades that a pitcher can't completely control W/L record, yet it was perhaps THE most important factor in a pitching winning Cy Young (prior to the emergence of closers). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce some pitchers have very tough luck in trying to rack up wins, instead get no decisions. Yet again ... forever it was THE bench mark for starters along with ERA of course. Bruce Sutter won Cy Young in 1979. Before that ... all W/L and ERA. McCormick 22-10, 2.85; Gibson 22-9, 1.12; Seaver 25-7, 2.21; Gibson 23-7, 3.12; Fergie 24-13, 2.77; Carlton 27-10, 1.98; Seaver 19-10, 2.08; Marshall 15.21 withi 21 saves, 2.42; Seaver 22-9, 2.38; Jones 22-14, 2.74; Carlton 23-10, 2.64; Gaylord Perry 21-6, 2.73; then Sutter. Then after Sutter and 37 saves it was all W/L and era cept for relievers: carlton 24-9, 2.34; Fernando V 13-7, 2.48 (strike); Carlton 23-11, 3.11; John Denny 19-6, 2.37; Sutcliffe 16-1, 2.69; Gooden 24-4, 1.53; Mike Scott 18-10, 2.22; Bedrosian 40 saves; Hershiser 23-8, 2.26; Davis 44 saves; Drabek 22-6, 2.76; Glavine 20-11, 2.55; Maddux the next four years all based on wins and era; Smoltz 24-8, 2.94; Pedro 17-8 1.90; Glavine 20-6, 2.47; Randy Johnson next four years all wins/losses and era based; gagne 55 saves in 2003; then clemens, carpenter, webb, peavy, lincecum twice in a row; halladay, kershaw, dickey, kershaw twice in a row; arrieta, scherzer twice all based on WL and era. last year deGrom more on the advanced stats. 10-9, 1.70 I can do the AL pitchers next if you wish. Even last year's snell at 21-5, 1.89 was traditional W/L and era. In 2010, felix hernandez won 13 and lost 12 so that was ignored cause of his era and strikeouts and he won it; Aside from that, all W/L and ERA cept for Eck's 51 saves; willie hernandez's 32 saves; rollie fingers 28 and sparky lyle's 26. Aside from relievers and Felix hernandez, all cy Young winners based on W/L, ERA. Seems to me we now know why Stoney mentions wins and losses so much, folks.

The disintegration of the W/L record has made its was to the modern baseball world though. I never look at W/L records anymore even though Stoney will mention record. He was mentioning Gio's a lot early. It used to be necessary before going to a game to see a pitcher's record. At this stage of the season a 14-8 record or something was a good pitcher.

Thanks Kite. I appreciate that.

Is there an anti Ron out there? Somebody to start a pro-Jose thread? One with all compliments? That would be neat.

It's a microcosm of society. You seen the anger out there? If a person like greg disagrees so much he must be trolling. ... Wrong. He simply disagrees. Parents are now teaching that their kids are right in their opinion no matter what so outlier opinions like mine are not welcome. They are despised. My point was ignored. That Stone immediately goes to conventional stats, wins/losses for pitchers and ERA; HRs, RBI and yes batting average for hitters. Most broadcasts squeeze in OBP in the graphic but never talk about it. If advanced stats were so important why aren't they being integrated into the broadcasts; can't ignore something if it's vital to baseball. Now in the front offices? Yes they are dying to acquire all the advanced stats. Shifts ... they know exactly where the batter will hit the ball. And the ruination of baseball to me? The knowledge that all a hitter needs to worry about are HRs or strikeouts. You must hit a HR or strikeout. Other stuff is bad. No need to hit and run or steal bases, not worth the risk. You notice McCann was raking when he was going to all fields. Now he's struggling.

And yet 300 wins is a staple to get into the Hall of Fame. Good luck setting new standards for Hall admission now that wins don't matter at all.

Look I'm allowed to fight back once in a while. It's not trolling it's being pxxxxd off. I noticed what Stone said after each of the three home runs and they were citing stats most of you deem inconsequential.

B.S. I'm not trolling anybody. I'm giving opinions, You might hate my political opinions as well if we were allowed to post them any more. Some people on this board will never accept the fact there are people with DIFFERERING OPINIONS. Guess what. I love Jose had a friend in town today from Chicago and he wasn;'t shocked by any of my Sox points. And he said everybody he knows likes Abreu. He is a HUGE Sox fan BTW.

I just couldn't take him seriously ever because with the stress he put on that arm with that ridiculous motion he was going to get hurt, just a matter of when.

So tell me Ron, who on the team is a fun hitter right now? What White Sox hitters does Ron give his seal of approval to? Name them now. I'm thinking there are uh, none.

Great post vile. I love Abreu and am chanting "2 more years; two more years" right now with a team option for year three! Love me some Jose!

Nice win, watched the highlights. Eloy and Timmy go deep along with Leury's grand slam. Nice job Lopez. Now quit reading if you hate me or are easily offended. I have to call it like I see it. Listen to the home run calls on the 3 homers. Stoney's only color is to IMMEDIATELY tell the viewer how many homers and RBIs the hitter now has. Hmmm. ... shouldn't you advanced stat people flood the network with emails and tweets telling Stoney to get with it and quit announcing RBIs for gosh sakes. And by gosh, quit giving pitchers' records. Quit talking about that during the intro to the game. Those categories mean nothing and need to quit being mentioned.

One thing about companies ... I love (not really) the way when a new person is hired, HR has them a.) fill out a million forms. b.) make them watch dumb videos on various things. c.) give them all these passwords and ridiculous hurdles to climb just to log into systems. Etc. But ... when a person quits or is fired, as long as they turn in their company equipment, that's it. No contact with HR; just assume you'll get your W2 form sometime in January.

Wow. That is awesome you cut him off. If you'd have disciplined him would his mommy have complained though, as VP?

How was she after that? Reliable or not?

To be fair to RR, they are probably homers who always criticize the opponent but never the Phils strategy. I'm guessing that's the case. That's why I loved Hawk and Stone. Hawk would rip the Sox for dumb decisions too. Most announcing crews only criticize the opponent. The Royals do that all the time regarding the Sox. Denny Matthews the Hall of Famer will mock the Sox; never mock the Royals.

I agree with you in theory. But I think his whole approach will always be home run or nothing. I mean the stat people can't have it both ways. It's been stressed that's a smart way to hit now by the experts. Try to hit a home run every at bat and strikeouts aren't that bad. That's baseball right now and maybe for a long time to come. In the old days it was OK to hit gappers and it was OK for instance to have the leadoff man get on and the second hitter of the game hit and run him to third. Now no running and u better develop a swing that accounts for many homers. Cheers.