Yossarian

QUOTE(SoxPride56 @ Aug 3, 2007 -> 10:36 AM) I dont know what we could get for Thome, but I would think we could get something pretty darn good for him. Thoughts? Maybe even 2 Class A pitchers.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 3, 2007 -> 12:04 PM) It was an old Jayson Stark article about the draft which was days away. Brazelton the guy picked right in front of Floyd was being compared to Fergie Jenkins. Which all goes to show you how dicey drafting baseball "prospects" is. It's so much more difficult than football or basketball. Can't miss guys like Prior flame out. Can't miss guys like Floyd never are. Then you have leftovers like Mike Piazza and Mark Buerhle. Baseball is such a hard game to play well. Even harder to draft and scout well.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 2, 2007 -> 10:30 AM) someone with Floyd's tools For crying out loud WHAT TOOLS? What am I missing? His room service, batting practice fastball? Inconsistent motion? Big "hook" of a curve? Not only that, but he exudes a lack of confidence. He really makes you think he doesn't want to be on the mound, once he gives up his first hard hit ball. It doesn't even have to be a hit. If the Sox weren't in such desparate shape, he'd have had his ticket punched a long time ago.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Aug 2, 2007 -> 09:59 AM) Has anybody ever witnessed a former ace just go over a cliff like Contreras has? Granted, I hated him 1st half of 2005 because he was inconsistent, but he'd STILL pull off a win now and then. And of course 2nd half and into 2006 he was arguably the best pitcher in the league. And now... this. I'm not mocking him, it just makes me sad to see a guy fall apart completely like that. I've seen relievers have great years and then go over the Cliff (Politte, ahem) but this kind of absolute meltdown is something I've never seen before. And he just seems mentally absent, like he doesn't care about the game, himself, anything (he never really was an emotional guy to begin with). Simply bizarre. Does anybody have ANY explanation? I've thought pretty much the same thing. His deterioration of late is simply mind boggling. He has become way beyond Jaime Navarro bad. I really didn't think the Sox had a good enough team to make the playoffs this year. I thought their narrow window closed last year. However I thought they were good for 85-89 wins in a tough division. I never foresaw the total meltdown of most of the bullpen and our former "ace" Jose Contreras. This season just flat out sucks on so many levels.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 09:18 PM) PS: if Floyd is our best option -- I think Egbert and Haeger would be better options. Maybe even Masset, but let's just say, Floyd is our best option... ...then that's a testament to how bad this organization has been at drafting, developing and scouting players. POTW material IMHO. While we're going back and forth about the merits of a sandlot pitcher named Floyd, you've succintly summed it up. I think the next few years are going to be real tough for Sox fans.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 09:33 PM) It won't burn out the bullpen -- that's what Haeger is here for. No, I don't think so.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 09:10 PM) For all the people that like this move, I am curious about something, if Floyd continues to pitch like he has shown, how many starts do you give him until you do pull the plug? When is enough enough? Apparently to lots of Sox fans, enough is never enough when it comes to Gavin Floyd.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 08:12 PM) Nope. Kenny Williams has been trying all year to get Floyd into the rotation. I don't understand. You won't change your mind because an obstinate, arrogant GM won't admit he was wrong about a stiff he picked up in a trade? I hope Gavin Floyd makes me look bad. Up to now he makes Jaime Navarro look like a Cy Young pitcher. In the meantime, any other pitcher with Floyd's track record would have been dumped a long time ago. What a train wreck of a season this has become.

Come on people. Floyd's had his chances and more. He's awful. He has no stuff, it's almost cruel to send him out there anymore. You know Danks hasn't been all that great this year, but if you want to extend some chances, then he's the guy. Danks doesn't back down when things get rough. I say work with young pitchers like Danks, who have some moxie. Floyd melts like a campfire marshmellow. I've seen enough of him. He's a bust. Most prospects don't pan out, and baseball is a very hard game. I wish Gavin Floyd all the success in the world in the game of life.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 08:41 AM) And let Floyd start. If we are going to have a crappy starter, let's at least let it be Floyd the rest of the year, so we can see if he has the mental stuff do get it done. This year should be a tryout anyway, at this point. That is truly a depressing prospect. Please think it over. Floyd, in addition to being a really lousy pitcher, is sensitive and weak mentally. The truth is two years after nirvana, we're looking into the abyss. The team is swiss cheese like with holes all over the place. Gavin Floyd? Please, no.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) Floyd is about 85% sure to be in the 2008 starting rotation Please tell me that you've changed your mind about that.

You couldn't even trade Jose for that another Class A pitcher. Right now he has zero value. That's right zero. I don't know if he suddenly realized that he's 55 years old, or he never recovered from his injury, or both.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) I doubt Pena is much of a downgrade defensively from Dye Oh, but he is.

QUOTE(J-MAN @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 09:52 AM) AMEN to that! Misplayed two balls this weekend! Should have had the Thomas high fly Friday night he played into a double and the error yesterday - he may be the worst left fielder in baseball!!!!!! Makes Carlos Lee look like a gold glove outfielder! I seem to rarely agree with fielding assessments here. I agree that Podsednik has turned into a butcher in LF. His first three seasons, he was actually somewhat above average, and I think the stats will bear me out. I don't know what happened to him, now too many catchable fly balls are an adventure. Carlos Lee actually fielded very well for the Sox in 02 and 04. All the other years have been sub par, which leads me to believe for Lee it's lack of concentration as much as anything.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 03:25 PM) We traded a middle of the road 2B At least you didn't call him crap. If he's crap what is Uribe? Cintron? Toby Hall? Mack in CF? BA at the plate this year and last? A middle of the road 2B is worth more than what we got for him. I didn't expect anything big. A better prospect and/or a decent reserve player would have been nice. I wish Iguchi the best. 05 was beyond great and he was an important part of it. He still has a few good years left in the tank I think, but we shall have to wait and see. In the meantime Richar is one of the few prospects we have that I think has a decent chance to pan out. He will now get his opportunity and I hope he makes the most of it. 2B has historically been a pretty strong position for the Sox. Sorry I responded to your post, instead of someone else who was far more critical. Go Danny Richar, and now I'm done with this particular event.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) I think that basically the trade was made to dump someone and make it look like we are really making some moves here. Iguchi was a good player for the Sox and should have brought more than a class A level player in return. That's the way I see it too, but we're apparently deeply in the minority here. It amazes me how Sox fans eat their own, as soon as they're no longer one of their own. All these descriptions of Iguchi, you'd think he was a lifetime .220 hitter (including Japan) who made an error every other game. It's true that he got off to a horrible start at the plate this year. He surely wasn't the only one. Kenny Williams does not get a lifetime pass from me, no matter who tells me he should. If you look at his tenure dispassionately, you'll see his performance lately is reminiscent of the rocky start he had. Even taking the long view that Iguchi will be a 2 or 3 month rental for the Phillies this is not a good trade.

QUOTE(phillychuck @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 08:01 AM) Additionally, most of the posters here seem to think Iguchi is a very bad defensive 2B. Why is that? I don't. I don't. I don't. The trashing of Iguchi, and the enabling of Kenny here have literally made me sick to my stomach. You got a good player who's bat is starting to come around. I think you just may be right about the Kenny guilt thing.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) He is in the last year of his contract, hitting .250 with 6 HRs and 30 RBI, and is poor defensively. What were you expecting. Please tell me. Instead of jsut saying how bad it was, offer up something inteligent to the conversation. You first.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 11:27 AM) Buck Weaver lived out of his life on the south side. I think he died walking down 35th. IIRC correctly it was on 79th. Weaver lived in an apartment near 79th and Winchester.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 08:03 PM) If anyone should be exonerated, it's the ginger kid, Buck Weaver. He just wouldn't, and couldn't rat on his teammates. Buck Weaver truly got a raw deal. He wanted to separate himself from the other seven in court and have his case taken individually. Some deserving people are caught up in tragic circumstances. Buck Weaver is one of those.

John Garland was never anything close to the terrible pitcher Gavin Floyd has been. We have some pitchers in the minors that give me some measure of hope. Gavin Floyd isn't one of them.

QUOTE(Linnwood @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) Can you expand on this or point me toward some good sources to find out more. Nearly everything I've hear or read about the Black Sox was about the scandal itself. It's a long complicated, multi-layered story. Most of the stuff out there is sympathetic to the players and demonizes owner Charles Comiskey. The Book Eight Men Out by Elliot Asinof, and the Nelson Algren short story The Swede Was a Hard Guy, are two examples of this. Although I believe the players (7 of them anyway) are guilty, I still recommend you read these two works, they're full of historical information. For a dose of reality try Joe's Grand Jury testimony. Joe's testimony

QUOTE(briguy27 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 01:15 PM) We will never know who was guilty or not. I signed, but I'm not paying. It's a little tedious to do the research, but the facts are out there. Charles Comiskey wasn't any better or any worse than many of his contemporaries. At least 7 players deliberately went into the tank, including Joe Jackson. There's no gunman on the grassy knoll here. People want to make the players martyrs. They weren't. They almost ruined a franchise that was on the verge of becoming a dynasty. Years later, Ray Schalk, who wasn't in on the fix said that if not for the Black Sox, there would have been no Yankee dynasty. I think he was right.

I'm not signing. He's guilty, and it's time some quit looking at these guys as anything but what they were. They set Sox baseball back 3 decades. The only one of that bunch of 8 who has my sympathy is Buck Weaver.

If Gavin Floyd ever amounts to anything, I'll be more than a little surprised. Anybody who sees otherwise is engaging in the most rose colored wishful thinking. He's just not any good, and worse than that, he's so timid on the mound. A headcase with no talent. I really expect big things from this guy. Yeah right. Unfortunately for us, KW loves the guy, so don't expect the Sox to pull the plug on this stiff anytime soon.