Yossarian

Let me say that I agree Joe is the best option we have at third right now. That's not saying much.

My apologies then. I just don't see any relationship or parallel between the two. I hope Joe has his breakout year with the Sox, but at this point it just doesn't look like he can hit major league pitching.

Do you really want to compare Brian Roberts G AB R H 2B 3B HR BI W K SB CS AV OBP SL OPS 2001 BAL 75 273 42 69 12 3 2 17 13 36 12 3 .253 .284 .341 .624 2002 BAL 38 128 18 29 6 0 1 11 15 21 9 2 .227 .308 .297 .605 2003 BAL 112 460 65 124 22 4 5 41 46 58 23 6 .270 .337 .367 .704 2004 BAL 159 641 107 175 50 2 4 53 71 95 29 12 .273 .344 .376 .720 2005 BAL 132 522 83 163 39 6 18 66 61 76 27 9 .312 .385 .513 .898 To Joe Crede? G AB R H 2B 3B HR BI W K SB CS AV OBP SL OPs 2000 CWS 7 14 2 5 1 0 0 3 0 3 0 0 .357 .333 .429 .762 2001 CWS 17 50 1 11 1 1 0 7 3 11 1 0 .220 .273 .280 .553 2002 CWS 53 200 28 57 10 0 12 35 8 40 0 2 .285 .311 .515 .826 2003 CWS 151 536 68 140 31 2 19 75 32 75 1 1 .261 .308 .433 .741 2004 CWS 144 490 67 117 25 0 21 69 34 81 1 2 .239 .299 .418 .717 2005 CWS 113 370 43 86 17 0 16 48 21 57 1 1 .232 .285 .408 .693 Roberts became a regular in 03 and has shown improvement every year. Crede made the club for good in the second half of 02 and has shown mind boggling regression with each passing year. No comparison.

I posted this before. Here it is again, Joe Crede's numbers. 2002 .285 .311 .515 .826 2003 .261 .308 .433 .741 2004 .239 .299 .418 .717 2005 .232 .285 .408 .693 His career is hanging by a thread right now. I like the guy and of course his D is solid, but the offensive numbers don't lie.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 03:31 PM) I think on ESPN radio last night I heard the '64 Sox have the greatest difference between team ERA and league ERA, it was roughly 1 run less... I was going to vote for that staff as the best in my lifetime. The 1964 team is all but forgotten. They finished one game behind the Yanks. There were no divisions or expanded playoffs back then. The Sox just couldn't handle the Yanks, losing the first 10 times they played them and 12 our of 18 overall. The starting rotation featured two hard throwing lefties, Gary Peters and Juan Pizarro. Joel Horlen, Ray Herbert and John Buzhardt gave additional strength. The bullpen was anchored by two knuckballers, Eddie Fisher and Hall of Famer Hoyt Wilhelm. For one year excellence no pitching staff can compare to the one in 1964 in my lifetime. Overall 1917 gets my vote. 1964 CWS Pitching Staff STARTERS W-L ERA SV L Gary Peters 20-8 2.50 0 L Juan Pizarro 19-9 2.56 0 R Joe Horlen 13-9 1.88 0 R John Buzhardt 10-8 2.98 0 R Ray Herbert 6-7 3.47 0 R Fred Talbot 4-5 3.70 0 BULLPEN R Hoyt Wilhelm 12-9 1.99 27 R Eddie Fisher 6-3 3.02 9 L Don Mossi 3-1 2.93 7 L Frank Baumann 0-3 6.19 1 L Frank Kreutzer 3-1 3.35 1

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 06:51 AM) Maybe since the fans were so busy telling Ozzie how to use his pen, Ozzie figured he would tell them to do their jobs and get the games? Once again Sox fans are the biggest fair weather fans ever. They will use any excuse at anytime. I hate to say it but everyone of those quotes is right. Its one thing to draw 15,000 in April, its quite another to draw that in September with the best record in baseball. Let me count to 100 very slowly so I don't lose my temper. I'm down to my last White Sox message board.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 09:03 PM) You and Buehrle>Wood are correct. The 1917 team won 100. They did it in a 154 game season too.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 10:26 AM) It is impossible to remove, either surgically, psychologically, or through the arcane arts, the tiny grain of negativity that always resides in true Sox fans waiting to rear it's head at the appropriate times. To paraphrase James Joyce, as Sox fans, we have an abiding sense of tragedy that sustains us through breif periods of joy. Welcome aboard, LVSoxFan. Buy the man a drink. I've been trying to say that, using many posts and many words, and didn't do it nearly as well as you just did. As for that other site. Many great features, but they've gone Stalinistic in their treatment of posters. The mods are encouraged to act like schoolyard bullies.

He reminds me a lot of Dave Nicholson, a blast from the past.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 5, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) Thome really really sucked this year and looked like he's hit the brick wall in his career prior to his going on DL. If Paulie got hurt right now, right now, I would give us no chance of winning a playoff series. Our lineup would be devastated. We can't afford to lose Maggs, Lee, Frank and Paulie in a 2-year span. We will not be fine without this guy. You are so right. I wish he'd quit giving interviews, but regardless of that we can't lose the kind of power and run production he brings. If he goes, we have to have someone with the same kind of numbers at first.

This is getting more depressing by the moment.

I should have listened better to you guys who saw him in Spring Training. Great effort by BMac. It's nice to see guys get called up who look good for the long haul. This is my second helping of crow where this kid is concerned. Keep it coming! The taste is starting to grow on me, and you know you need at least a little beer to wash it down.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 05:51 PM) Maybe DJ doing play by play in the 8th inning, is being groomed to be the radio PBP guy, with Stone taking over the color on TV? Hawk is notoriously think skinned. He pushed Wimpy out the door and he treats DJ like crap at times. I can't see Hawk and Stone coexisting in the same booth.

QUOTE(BFirebird @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) very nicely put chaos....the negativity needs to stop in my opinion...look around the rest of the AL...everyone has flaws and no team other than the indians have played well in the second half. Red Sox - great offense no doubt...but their staff is lacking some depth. Curt Schilling is not the Schilling of last year and they miss Pedro A LOT. If you look back at their championship team last year they won on pitching and defense....not offense. They traded offense to get defense...remember that. Yankees - look at their starting pitching...nuff said. Angels - most well-rounded, has best chance along with Chi Sox in my opinion to make it to the Show. Colon has been a stud, but other than K-Rod rest of bullpen a little shaky. Offense is also as inconsistent as Chi Sox. A's - great staff...but a little young and inexperienced in key roles like closer and most of rotation. Some key injuries like Crosby's will hurt a lot. Indians - good all around team and will be dangerous for years to come...may still make the wild card but not enough to catch the Sox. After looking at the rest of the league you should feel better about our White Sox. While we my not win it all or even make it to the Show...I believe that we have just a good of a chance as any other team in the AL. Keep your heads up and GO SOX!!! You're right, everyone has problems. There is no total package. Still the Sox need to pick up the hitting, while the pitching remains strong. Last night was a good start.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 12:26 PM) That's ridiculous. Who is left from the 2000 team? Frank, Mark, Garland, and Konerko. That team was built on offense with a crappy pitching staff, this team is built on a great pitching staff with a mediocre offense. Hell, the only coach from the 2000 staff is the bullpen coach. The dimensions of the ballpark have changed as well. The 2000 White Sox have NOTHING to do with the 2005 White Sox. :rolly Yes the makeup and emphasis of the teams is somewhat different but both struggled in the second half. After going 55-30 the 2000 White Sox went .500 if you include that three game debacle with Seattle to open the playoffs. In 2005 the Sox were 62-29 and are 19-22 since then. We are 1-0 in September, so keep it up and that will make the comparisons to the 2000 team null and void. Everyone will be happy. As a lonely voice in the wilderness, I will say it again, our history is an albatross. Win the big prize and it's all gone. August is in the rear view mirror. Good riddance. It's up to the White Sox to seize the moment and write their own chapter.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Sep 1, 2005 -> 11:15 AM) Here is the logic of the pessimists. If the Sox lose the World Series on a fluke play or an umpire's call in extra innings of Game 7, they'll say ... "See, I told you they couldn't win it all." And they are happy they can say they were right. If the Sox win it all, they can say "I'll glad eat crow! How 'Bout Dem White Sox!!!!" And they are happy they won. Pretty f***ing pathetic. I'll take this one on. I've rooted for the Sox almost half a century. I hung in there in the darkest times of all from 1968-70 when the Sox didn't draw flies, fielded awful teams and even played some home games in Milwaukee. I remember 1975 when the AL promised the White Sox franchise to the good folks in Seattle and had to backpeddle when Bill Veeck came to the rescue. That same Bill Veeck was ready to sell the team to Marvin Allen, who would move the team to Denver, a few years later. I've watched the Reinsdorf regime for a quarter of a century either be unwilling or unable to build a consistently winning franchise. The White Sox are and were my team of choice and I've hung in there with them both monetarily and emotionally. I'm so old I actually remember watching the 59 WS on TV, and could still give a pretty good game by game analysis of it. We lost the Series in game 2 when third base coach Tony Cuccinello did a "wavin' Wally" and sent Sherm Lollar home, ending a rally. Lollar made Paul Konerko look like a track star. I'm not old enough to remember 1917 and don't even know anybody who is. I've been through it all and don't need any lectures. The Sox seem to me to be a few bricks shy of a load, not a World Series caliber team. In the modern day watered down state of baseball a few bricks shy of a load may still be good enough. So I'll continue to call it like I see it and still root for the Sox. I don't need a loyalty test, I passed mine a long time ago thank you.

Look with our record and history it's not a monkey on our back, it's a giant gorilla. That's just the way it is. Unless and until the Sox actually win a World Series that's the way it's going to stay. This year has the potential to be especially tormenting because we were 24-7, 53-24, 62-29 once upon a time. The turnabout has been not pretty to look at. It does not inject the spirit with any sense of confidence but rather a sickening sense of de ja vu. Even the "hitless wonders" of a century ago were charging to the finish line, with a 19 game winning streak in August.

Mariotti is a trendy. How many kissup articles did he write about the Cubs when they were still pretenders in 03 and 04? Mariotti always checks to see which way the wind is blowing. He writes maliciously, sometimes in a very subtle way, sometimes not. He is very conniving, manipulative, deceptive, with a touch of sabotage. He hates JR and Hawk with an unhealthy passion. All of his columns have an agenda, which change with his moods. If you get the idea I can't stand the guy, you're right. I don't think anybody on this board deserves to be compared to him. 99%+ of posters here really would like to see the Sox do well. Whether we're optimists, pessimists, or in the middle some where. That's our agenda, a WS championship ring for the White Sox. Mariotti on the other hand?

The Critic and Yasny have Mariotti pegged correctly. Jay combines venom with a two faced nature, regardless of whatever writing talent he may possess.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) Wasn't it PK a few weeks ago saying that they wanted to go with the players they had? I learned a long time ago that Konerko needs a muzzle. I don't pay much attention to his ramblings.

QUOTE(JoshPR @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 10:09 PM) WHY?? Good scouting and development of the farm that why. The Sox haven't been let's say.. Hmmm that good at it lately. After Buehrle and Rowand who else has been developed? No one. Very good post IMO. You can adopt the frugal strategy of the Sox if you have a strong farm system and great scouting. The Sox have neither. What you are looking at then is trying to catch lightning in a bottle every once in a while. Like the first half of both 2000 and 2005. The Sox don't have a viable strategy to be successful in the long run.

QUOTE(Yossarian @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 08:02 AM) Fans of BMac please note. I'll take my crow well done, with hot sauce. Lots of beer to wash it down.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 02:57 PM) Miniscule walk rate. Pitchers discovered that he would swing at anything. Gave him nothing to hit. -- Francouer they're coming for you next. Francouer is going to do just fine. Crede OTOH isn't.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 08:49 AM) Gload won't be the starting 1b for the Sox next year. I will guarantee that. I hope so because it would mean a weakened lineup. Cleveland is going to be tough for a few years and the Twins always seem to find a way. I'm not expecting to be a consistent playoff team with the Ross Gloads of the world.

So maybe, just maybe I had a somewhat valid point?