The Beast
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Posts posted by The Beast
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5 minutes ago, Tony said:
Why don’t you hold Fields to those same standards? Because if you did, you’d want to make a change at QB
I’m echoing what people want that Fields apparently can’t do and making that the measuring stick for Williams or Maye. I still think Fields can put it together and don’t think we’ve seen him at his best yet. I don’t know what system is going to be the best for him, but I would like to see what a Getsy getting canned and adding more talent around Fields would do. But I am also accepting the fact that the Bears could move on from Fields.
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12 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:
The level of accountability is NFL. That’s it. I don’t even really know what you are asking, nobody can project exactly when a player becomes elite. Do you feel like Williams will somehow evade accountability?
13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:No one can answer this question for Fields after 3 years, but you expect a prediction for a QB that hasn’t played one NFL game yet?
No, I expect that if the Bears draft him, that he’s the guy that they’ve needed. And that if he’s so great as I’m reading, Williams better be on point with throws, reads, passes to where receivers are going, overcoming shitty offensive line and wide receiver play because the quarterback is supposed to overcome all of that. I’m not asking for a prediction as much as I’m asking what people expect out of a highly drafted quarterback in Williams or Maye. Maybe Mahomes level stats after year one or two is what people should expect. I have never understood what Bears fans really expect from their quarterbacks (think Grossman, Orton or Cutler) when they’ve been here. Probably Peyton Manning or Tom Brady level of performance.
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10 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:
I just don’t think you ask anyone how long they take until they are elite. You draft a guy who you believe is close or there, and you support him. there is no timetable on elite, guys just show out when it clicks
But I think there needs to be some level of which to measure Williams if he truly is generational like they say he is. It can’t be just that his numbers are better than Fields. It has to be about results and I think if we are thinking higher than what we have now and where the team is now, Williams needs to be held accountable on a high level.
6 hours ago, fathom said:With no announcement yet and participating in exit interviews, does this mean Eberflus is safe?
Brad Biggs reported that Eberflus is set to talk with ownership mid this week. He also believes Eberflus is safe.
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24 minutes ago, Tony said:
Everyone has a different definition of "elite" but if you're asking if they should expect them to be better than 2023/2024 Justin Fields by the end of their second year in the NFL? Then yes, and that isn't an unrealistic expectation at all.
I’m basically asking if Williams should be elite, or put up Mahomes-esque numbers by the end of the first or second year in the NFL. I want to know what Bears fans expect if they draft Williams. I would expect playoffs at a minimum if they went that route.
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11 minutes ago, ptatc said:
The best way to have sustained success is to have a QB who makes everyone else around them better and can win games on his own. This is not Fields.
So you draft Williams. When is he expected to be elite and who do the Bears draft with their second first round pick?
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14 minutes ago, Tony said:
I like Justin. I think his development has been stunted with the Bears many times. Probably has a different career trajectory with a well-run franchise.
But to your point, the reality is we've had 35 starts with him and have a very good idea of who he is as a Chicago Bear. They are going to need more out of the QB position if they want to win playoff games.
I am not an avid watcher of college football, if Drake Maye was walking down the street next to me I wouldn't have a clue. But rookie QB's can be successful in Year 1, as we have seen multiple times. Drafting someone at 1 doesn't mean they are punting on the season. And they would be absolutely be investing into the team for the long term. Keeping Fields doesn't do that, because by trading out of No. 1 and keeping Fields, you still haven't found your franchise QB and they're just kicking the can down the road.
Is it fair to say that if the Bears draft Williams or Maye, that fans should expect them to be elite by the end of the first year or second, especially with how Williams has been billed as generational?
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2 minutes ago, fathom said:
Especially with how awful the QB class is next year
How do we already know that?
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1 minute ago, Tony said:
I don’t know how these things go together. Let’s remove Fields first season from the equation, let’s just go with the last two years. What has he shown you to tell you he is going to make a major leap, and he’ll lead this team over the Packers and other quality teams?
The Bears can’t be ok with “ok”
They have a super unique opportunity with the No. 1 pick, and you say “Well if it doesn’t work out after next year, go get a QB.” They won’t have a better opportunity than this.
I’m just not sure that even if they draft Williams or Maye without the supporting cast I think they need, that the Bears will get to that next level. They still have several holes.
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1 hour ago, bmags said:
https://x.com/robertkschmitz/status/1744156188453790138?s=46&t=9lkBcVJmwvxFpyVi5DNtCg
Pretty much.
If we build the perfect team around fields we could indeed be a top 14 offense!
My comment to that user on Twitter. If Williams or Maye are drafted, are they getting a year under their belt first or are they expected to put up Mahomes like numbers in the first year?
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1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:
I watched all of their game last night and parts of some other games. Their OL is pretty solid.
Getting rid of the ball quicker is also easier when you have receivers who can get open.
Again, not saying Fields is ever going to be an MVP, but Brock Purdy, Joe Flacco and Mason Rudolph are quarterbacking playoff teams. Fix the OL and WR positions and if Fields doesn't get it done with the improved team, then move on after next year.
Keeping Fields could be a 1 year mistake. Drafting a new QB could be a 4-5 year mistake.
1 hour ago, Quin said:Honestly, beg Harbaugh to be the coach.
If he thinks the haul for #1 is worth it instead of Caleb or Maye, go for it. Maybe it gets you MHJ and one of the tackles.
But draft a QB in the third or second. It was just amazing seeing so many Packers wide receivers open in the midfield vs. the Bears. And of course the O-Line getting obliterated.
But if a new coach thinks that situation isn't tenable, you have to move on. Just pray for Caleb/Maye's life.
If the goal for Poles is to build sustainable success, I would much rather them build around Fields this next year. Trade out of the first position, get MHJ. Then draft another tackle. Get a center in the second or third round. If Fields doesn’t do it next season, then draft a quarterback in 2025. If they really want to take Williams or Maye, then they have to shore up that starting offensive line and wide receiver core and fast.
There also has to be a market for Justin Fields when teams can just get a quarterback in the draft. We will see what they get for him if he gets dealt and where he goes.
I also think Eberflus has to go if they are to pick a QB and they have to bring in a Ben Johnson or offensive minded coach. So I’m wondering if Eberflus is gone if that is an indicator of what is to come.
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3 minutes ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:
Fields may not be our future long term QB but I struggle to see what another QB would do on those 3rd down sacks Fields has taken, defenders immediately in his grill and no one open...
Why can't we have an OC that can create wide open recievers like GB can?
I have not seen a play where he has held onto the ball for too long today. I see more awful line play today.
Green Bay’s bread and butter seems to be short passes, runs and get the explosion play. Get into manageable third downs and convert.
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1 minute ago, chw42 said:
What a f*** up from the Packers.
32 on the Bears has had a tough game today. That pass was so wobbly. Finally something went the Bears way.
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12 minutes ago, Soxfest said:
OL playing like 💩
So is the defense.
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10 minutes ago, Tony said:
There have been like 200 shitty snaps from the Bears center position this season
Fields had no chance to throw that snapped ball.
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13 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:
Did one of those draft simulators and got this. I'm skeptical that the Bears could actually get all this, though.
Which one are you using? I had one I used to use but now you have to pay for it. Not sure how much though.
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8 hours ago, bmags said:
I have no idea what they should do anymore…which is awesome. Yesterday was just incredible.
The hard part with Fields to figure out is he’s still so explosive. He does push it downfield, or try to, he does have huge game changing runs. Usually when QBs are inconsistent they also are just boring.
And so yesterday you see that and it’s hard not to think about just adding these big weapons.
And yet it still hangs over how when the big plays are taken away…can he execute enough?
I don’t really know, but it does feel painful to think about trading this guy away.
I have been thinking about one combo that keeps fields but hedges…that would be JJ McCarthy. He seems like a good candidate to sit and develop, and wouldn’t be drafted high enough to be such a distraction.
I also wonder if we could get Fields to sign a Jordan Love type deal in that scenario.
1 hour ago, Tony said:Here is the other thing. We’ve seen 3 years of Fields, and at this point the momentum certainly seems like it’s going toward Fields coming back. You would think the decision is made.
However, human emotion is real and there is a momentum to things. This shouldn’t be the case, but the Packer game is going to mean way more than it should.
Say the Bears lose 35-0, Fields throws 3 picks and is like 12-32 passing. The entire discussion will flip on its head, and I think it could impact the decision Poles makes
I have been thinking about how awesome the performance was yesterday and yet how the narrative will shift if the Bears lose next week and Fields either has a bad or ineffective game. I suppose the fan base has made up their minds on Fields and to an extent, the Chicago media (Mark Grote and Brad Biggs thinks he will be competing with Caleb Williams or gone in 2024). To me, it is becoming more likely Fields is back next year with Eberflus and possibly Getsy returning, but also with some competition at quarterback.
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1 hour ago, wegner said:
"Hey Chris, can we get in on that kinda action?"
Fans should blow this picture up and hoist it up whenever something bad happens at the games. Or have some smart ass signs accompanying this before security and ushers censor them.
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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:
Rumor out there by Hub that Sean Payton may get fired. Apparently he doesn't get along with the wrong people not to get along with in Denver. He'd look good on rhe west sideline at Soldier Field.
I never understood that hire and what Denver was trying to do. Hiring Payton to get something out of Wilson doesn’t make sense to me. I’d be for bringing Payton on as long as he was straight fired and did not require draft compensation. Then again I don’t know if I would prefer him over up and coming coordinators in the league.
5 hours ago, Flash Tizzle said:I would agree neither Bernstein and Holmes have worshipped Fields; however, both are suspiciously hesitant to criticize him. Listen to their interviews with Gordon Wittenmeyer from the Tribune. Holmes focuses more on the blame of coaching, Gordon focuses on Fields. And then Berstein will say, “I hate sideways football,” and criticize the playcalling but does any really believe Getsy is that dense? That he just wants his QB to fail? Or he has never considered the idea of consistently throwing down field? They don't trust Fields. The proof has always been there.
It’s a tough decision for Poles. He may think, with a few more offensive weapons from the draft, this is a playoff team. And I believe he would be right. But is that enough? Are we content with just making it, or creating a SB team? I’d rather aim higher and improve at the QB position with the 1st pick, take a OL with the 2nd pick, then supplement with (hopefully) a 2nd round pick from Fields.
I can appreciate you and Balta having an actual conversation about Fields instead of just jumping on the Williams bandwagon. I think you mean Dan Weiderer. I know Weiderer and Biggs criticize Fields and I know Bernstein and Holmes blame other factors than just Fields. I never understood why Getsy didn’t throw down field in the middle of the field. Even if Fields turns the ball over, I’d prefer that or the possible big gain than screening defenses to death.
I am wondering if Poles thinks he can win enough to contend with an improved line and another wideout or if he wants to draft his own quarterback. It will make for a very interesting offseason.
5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:To me, the biggest thing with Fields comes down to the "Daniel Jones" question. Is anyone here ready to pay Justin Fields >$40 million a year? Right now, that is the going rate for holding onto a free agent QB, and the franchise tag is currently $36 million for that position and presumably going up. I can't see how I would justify that after the season he's had.
I’m not ready for that yet. I would be for seeing him play out next year and the fifth year option though. The cost of that new deal would be a lot, but I take the point of the contract reset from drafting a QB and trading Fields.
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13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:
Nope. Fields already had ALL the weapons he needed this year in Moore, Mooney, and Kmet, along with three good RBs and a kicker who drained everything and received a 4-year, $16 million extension because of it. The OL also improved over the course of the season. Additionally, the defense improved GREATLY in the past few games and Fields still blew close games. These two Score tools have been worshipping Fields for the past two years so they don’t have enough pride and common sense to get off that train at this point. They are both blowhards. I seem to remember in the off-season that everyone was in agreement that this was supposed to finally be the season for Fields to prove himself, and he didn’t. Look at the stats. He’s basically the same guy he was last year. A slightly above average QB. The Bears need to aspire for more from the QB position.
So an argument can be made that Fields blew the Denver game, but I don’t know if blame should be placed on him for the Lions and Browns losses. At least not squarely put on him.
I disagree with your assessment of Bernstein and Holmes. I tend to think they are objective about the teams they cover and don’t think they have been “worshipping” Fields at all.
I don’t know if pulling the plug on Fields after year 3 is the direction I want the franchise to go. We aren’t going to change each other’s minds and ultimately Poles will make the decision on what to do. He can own keeping Fields and passing on a quarterback or drafting one or dealing Fields and drafting one.
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35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
First, Williams has to make a decision by January 15, so there will be a complete decision by that point. He can't pull out of the draft the day beforehand.
If he were to go back to college, then there's still seemingly a worthy #1 pick QB in Maye. The Bears then have a choice between Maye and Fields. You're going to have a lot of work to do to make a choice there, I'd probably still lean towards the drafted QB, but you have other options. Washington, New England, NYG all seem very likely to give you multiple picks to move up to #1 for Maye, they're currently in #3, #4, and #5, and this could of course change if Arizona wins one of their final 2 games (Admittedly moderately tough against the Eagles and Seahawks, but the Seahawks could potentially have a playoff spot locked up by the time that game starts).
If the Bears want to stick with Fields, they could certainly take a worthy #1 pick in Harrison as well. If Arizona stays at #2 and Williams were to go back to school, it seems like MHJ probably goes to Arizona. If both QBs are in the draft, then I don't know what Arizona will do, but I'd be surprised if the 2 QBs didn't go 1-2. If Arizona wants a QB they'll take one, if they decide they don't want a QB they would be dumb not to trade back one slot to grab an extra pick.
If he does the "insist he won't play for the Bears" thing, you can take that into account if you decide to trade the pick, but boy that's just hard to believe actually happening. You literally don't want to play for a team in one of the biggest markets in the country? Why?
First - I am with you on the decision date for the draft. That is what I am implying.
I really would like the Bears to continue to stockpile picks, particularly from teams who will trade multiple first rounders and could bomb the next year. I don’t know much about Maye but that would certainly be an interesting decision between taking him and Fields. Maybe trading back to number 3 works well or taking the QB works well. The possibilities of the number one pick extend further than taking Williams or trading the pick. I would have to go back and study would the Chiefs did with Alex Smith to see if there are any similarities between what the Bears could do with Fields and draft a QB to replace him. I’m also not sure they will get a second round pick for him and he might return mid round picks.
As for the other scenario with Williams, I would have to look back to see if Manning was drafted and then traded to the Giants. I don’t fully understand why Williams would do this to the Bears either, but it still remains a possibility.
We will know a lot more by Black Monday and January 15.
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What should the Bears do if Williams goes back to USC or pulls an Eli Manning and does not want to play a down for the Bears?
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1 hour ago, T R U said:
Im not interested in trading with Baltimore, they had their shot to make a run and decided to play it safe. Plus, I want these O's posters to go back to their homes and get out of here with their ridiculous assessments of not only Cease but the comical take on Robert as well.
Yankees aren't going to be an 82 win team again, Orioles finish 3rd or 4th. Book it.
2 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:I do appreciate the perspective of both you and the other Orioles fan in this thread. It’s a refreshing change from the regulars here rehashing the same arguments over and over again.
Exactly. @T R U see @YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!’s post.
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18 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:
These are the posters who have some inside information..
@Y2Jimmy0 @macsandz @Harold's Leg Lift @fathom @ChiliIrishHammock24 and of course.. @Orlando
And KatyPerry’sButthole and WetButt23.
2023-24 NFL Season Thread
in A and J's Olde Tyme Sports Pub
Posted
I saw several times yesterday where Fields had no chance and would have been throwing it out of bounds or getting called for intentional grounding.
Even if Maye or Williams is selected that high?
That is one argument. I don’t think I’m arguing for a specific system as much as I am wanting a different OC, another left tackle and a stud WR to go with Fields.