LDF

QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 10:51 PM) A former Rockie pitcher had a rib removed while still active player. He came back for a year or two. His name was Aaron Cook. ok, i will admit this, why would one volunteer to have a rib remove.....

QUOTE (hi8is @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 10:10 PM) I'll never forget Heather and her infatuation with Ben Davis. Those were good times. yeah i screw up her name, it was feather, it was heather.... dang it is a b**** getting old.

this site has many great old time posters, some poster name feather (i think she was an IIU student), nukem, Steff, yansy.... i wonder i Steff is still around.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 08:21 PM) Not sure that is true. Sox attendance has dropped from 24,000+ to 21,000 + the last 5 years. If revenue( TV +) is up and attendance is down there may not be a big enough incentive to spend more money. you may have a point, i think there has to be a fine line there. esp in not max the profit from attendance.....

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 03:59 PM) I don't know if that is being a great GM because that move, and I really am not a fan of Latos, was a no brainer. But it is shocking to me he did it with basically no incentives. He must really want to work with Coop and/or the Sox training staff.i don't think the Sox would actually promise him a spot in the rotation no matter what. He also hates being pulled. The Sox hang with their starters longer than most. Whatever the motivation, I think it blows away the moves they have basically been spending this amount of cash for recently. It isn't like he is going to have to be very good to earn his paycheck. If he returns anywhere near to form, he is an unreal steal. i don't know the rules on this one, can the sox, if latos does rebound, offer his a QO next yr???

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 04:23 PM) Two more examples that show the Sox have the right approach and actually do have a plan. I don't know about you but if the Sox signed Kennedy to that contract, I'd be pissed! I know I wouldn't be very happy about giving Gallardo 3/40-45M either. The Sox FO did well with staying patient and signing Latos for peanuts. Latos' potential upside, the idea of him working Cooper to get back on track as well as working with Hermie to hopefully stay healthy has me pretty geeked over the signing. that was all shear luck of the draw.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 04:14 PM) I would settle for 2nd tier players as well, but even then I would only be willing to go so far. The end has to justify the means. I'd like to see the Sox improve the lineup as bad as anyone but also do not want the Sox to get so desperate that they sign a player to another potentially bad contract. As bad of a signing as LaRoche turned out to be, I'm glad it was for only two years. Can you imagine if the Sox were stuck for another year or two after '16? Yikes! Take Fowler for instance, I would be willing to go 3 years on a player like him but if he insists on more than that, I wish him well and walk away from him. 4 years + is too long of a commitment for a player that's about to turn 30 with below average defense and part of his game relies on speed which doesn't bode well for players as they age. In this case, imo, the end would not justify the means. IOW, I feel Fowler's game could hold up for another two or possibly three years but not four or more. Thing is, we don't know exactly what Fowler is looking for and we don't know just how far the SOX are willing to go so to criticize is really a moot point. As for innuendos/half truths, do you really want the Sox to come out and publically tell the world their off season game plan? I don't see how that's going to help them in negotiations with free agents and GM's with regards to the trade market. The FO should be as vague as possible not only for negotiations sake but also in an effort to not get the fans hopes up on a specified player in case they fail to deliver. Much like what we've seen this off season from fans buying into the internet rumors.now, as for the persuit of the big free agent outfielders, in the end, does it really matter since those players signed elsewhere? It's all hindsight and irrelevant now. What matters is, what are they doing now to continue to improve the team, specifically the OF? Hopefully, that question will be answered between now and the end of ST. I'm with ya on the Latos signing and I'm really excited about his potential upside. When he's healthy, Latos has some pretty nasty stuff. I also agree that Avi should be a platoon partner for LaRoche ( if Avi is not traded ) and that the outfield needs another upgrade. Hahn has been transparent with regards to the front office's desire to upgrade the OF. Just because it hasn't happened yet does not mean it will not happen at all. Thats why I continue to point out that theres still plenty of time left and for fans to be patient. ref 1st bold, that was completely on the luck of the draw. good idea but it didn't work. so should the sox not do anything else until, fiscally, the contracts come off the books??? this here is the crux of my pov. ref to 2nd bold, well the point that is being concentrated on is not informing the fans, ok, but don't provide that appearance of going after the top Fa's. what was the purpose of that??? the answer is the Fo internal reasoning. while i really don't trust the sports writers in their attempt to create or rpt news, i still look and read, esp when the talk of cesp coming down to 2 teams topics. not once were the sox mention in that whole part for the final contract. this was not me believing until the final decision was made. when the final story did comes out, then i will look back to see where the sox was in all this. finally the last bold, patience and i understand what you are saying here. i have been patient and preaching this same old line of patience since 2002 on here and other places. back then i was the only one who trusted the sox owners group. now, a decade plus later, i am on the other side of the coin. i want actions and as i have said, go to the salary of 150 mil, to fix this team. that window of improvement in small ..... that money invested will bring the fans back, will help to compete with the PR for media time in chi, and the main albatross of a contract will be coming off the books. go over the int'l signing allotment, and hopefully they will be drafting right. improve the infrastructure called the white sox team, from the minor / farm team all the way up. now what will happen if they don't get that elusive OF'er..... what other points will fans look at and use as the excuse, well this team is solid as of right now, esp in the pitching dept???

QUOTE (Julius @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 07:30 PM) The interview by Nightengale is something sox fans need to get through their head. It's on MLB.com to hear it for yourself. When he says "the white sox say they are out of cash" it is a complete lie that is being spun by the sox brass and the media just goes with it. It's not Nightingale who is lying, it is Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf is swimming in cash and chooses not to spend it. It should not be our role as fans to be fiscal watchdogs....well, maybe we should be watchdogs in the sense that we demand that Reinsdorf SPEND not save money on this team. This has been proclaimed as the small window of opportunity to go for it before JR dies and so far it is a half-arse attempt. When the half-arse attempt fails, yes, sox can go cheap and blow it up. i really like your post, and ref the bold, it can be done by not going to the games. that seems to be the only way to get his attention. this way, the sox owners will have to go and invest more, instead of the token amount they spend 120 mil.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) Patience is correct Gallardo is going to get $40-45 million allegedly Latos got $3 million Signing Ian Kennedy in January cost $70 million i pm some other poster and to tell you the truth, i never, ever thought the sox would have signed latos. i was content with Alfredo Simon or Tim Lincecum. that threw me, getting latos.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 03:40 PM) These are all great examples of the Sox FO " posturing " in the past. In all honesty, I truely believe the FO does this so they do not get the hopes up of fans in case they fail to deliver and why the FO comes across as being so vague at times. Can you imagine the back-lash if the Sox say they are going after a specified player and fail to deliver? Holy smokes, the back-lash would be beyond furious. The last time I recall the Sox naming a player they were going after was Torii Hunter and we all know how that turned out. Imo, that was a lesson the FO learned from and why they try not to be specific with names. I do believe the budget is tight but also believe the Sox have some excess money to spend and are willing to do so, but only for what they perceive to be the right player and circumstances. Seeing as how I don't work in the FO or have inside information, all I can do as a fan is sit back and trust they are out there doing their best in continuing to improve the team. Hahn has come out said numerous times they have " many irons in the fire " so that's why I remain patient and willing to see how this plays out. I get emotional enough during the season when games are played, no point in me getting started just yet. It's too soon. Patience fellow Sox fans. a really great post. nice job. ref the bold, i can and i hope that many posters on this site, can understand if the sox failed, esp if player C wanting player A type money is the skills level is so vastly different. but if the sox failed to answer the bell and not get that player b/c of not spending money, money that is with reason and area of that player value, that is a problme for me. hey, if Hahn does get a viable of'er and calls it a day, i would be happy and i would be routing for him to get the management of the yr award. 5 or 6 known weakness and he fix it and within a budget ..... now the wildcard for me..... i really hope and pray to the baseball gods that RV is up to the challenge of taking this team forward.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) With 2nd tier free agents, does the end justify the means to improve the overall team? Are ticket and SOX apparel sales going to spike signing 2nd tier free agents like they would with players such as Cespedes/Gordon/Upton? Nope. Is giving up a draft pick and taking on the salary of players like Desmomd/Fowler worth the risk? Possibly and that's certainly debatable depending on ones POV. Personally, I think the risk is justifiable depending on the annual salary and length of contract. I would imagine the Sox FO office sees it the same way and are only willing to go so far and I don't blame them in that regard. What has the Sox FO spewed that has made fans so gullible? All they have said is that they are exploring all opportunities with reference to trades and free agents that do and do not come with comp picks attached. They have yet to come out and name a player they were directly going after, nor should they. As far as the financials go, we as fans have no choice but to take their word because none of us know exactly just how much money they have to spend, only speculation based on opinion. Due to the Sox willingness to spend in the past for what they perceive to be the right player(s) and as recently as last winter, I see no reason for me to question them just because some writers and tweeters were wrong with their " inside " information. It's the fans fault for allowing their selves to get suckered by those " insiders " , not the FO. There was 6 positional holes to be filled going into the off season. Did anyone realistically see the Sox filling all 6 of those voids? I sure as hell didn't. So far they have filled 3 of those 6 holes. Let's look at those 3 holes that are left SS, RF or OF and DH. The Sox rolling the dice with Saladino at SS is justifiable based on Saladino's defense and to serve as a potential place holder to Anderson for a season. DH, well we all know LaRoche isn't going anywhere and just have to accept that in retrospect, he was a bad signing. Sometimes FA signings just don't work out and the Sox aren't the only team this happens to. RF/OF, well, that's really what were talking about here and the Sox have actually acknowledged they are seeking an OF bat, preferably a LHB. The off season is not over, opening day has yet to arrive, so there's no reason for me to doubt they are indeed still seeking that upgrade for the OF. If the Sox fail to upgrade the OF before opening day, then you can bet I'll be unhappy about it but, I will still give the FO credit for adding Frazier/ Lawrie/ Avila/ Navarro/ Latos and re-signing Albers while moving on from duds such as Flowers/ Beckham/ Samardzija/ Soto etc. All I'm saying is that I'll withhold any criticisms I may potentially have until I see what the final 25 man roster looks like at the end of ST. Still plenty of time for the Sox to make upgrades and despite what some think, I feel the Sox have come a long way and I'm pretty excited about that. with ref to the 1st bold, 2nd tier players, yeah i would settle for them, in fact i was counting on them for the final piece of the of'ers. now with ref to selling sports apparel, i do not give a rats arse on that, i want the team to be in the best shape they can and invested in to compete. 2nd bold, innuendo's and half truth, esp when trying to imply that they were in the running, now that can be subjective in on it is used and how or to the audience they are intending that info to..... meaning the fans and to possible season tickets. gullible, never once did the fans really question the sox fo during the soxfest on how earnest in their pursuit they were to getting key players. gullible is when posters are saying, the sox can go into the season and if specific players don't perform they they will replace them...... when and with whom, when the opportunity is to improve the team now, in the offseason. ref the 3rd bold. i will give you credit for saying there are 3 spots left, i for one will be happy and has been happy if the sox were to get an of'er. i have been spouting since the off season began on Avi as a platoon for dh with lorache and i would be happy with saladino b/c of anderson on the horizon. and lastly i have given the sox their just due for improving the team up to now, esp after the latos signing. look at the latos thread, i have given them many plaudits to date, for all that was accomplish. i am just saying, do not stop now..... for me, 1 last position is needed, the outfield.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) No by bipolar, the excitement generated by a tweet saying the White Sox are contemplating a run at Ian Desmond, and then the total opposite when Nightengale says they are out of cash. I follow these national writers as much as the next guy, but the only things they are really accurate at tweet wise is breaking signings. Signings you would find out about in a half an hour anyway. The vast majority of their information is just noise. GMs are on the phone almost every day, for a good part of the day, but how many deals do they make? The fact is the season doesn't start for almost 2 months. Rosters don't have to be set by this weekend. I have said if the Sox go half assed they should get skewered. Right now it is half assed. They need at least one more guy. But to criticize them now is silly. There is still time. At least at this point they are one guy away from most people thinking they are legitimate. again you make a good counter. good job. for my response, i will admit i was not in favor of signing any of the top 3 of'ers, i wanted the org to use that money to fix as many pieces as they can. esp after the trade for the 3b and 2nd baseman. i wanted and hope for a sp, and the sox got latos and with less than what i expected. i wanted a of'er, somebody who is better than Avi. now with most posters wanting the SS, i was content with Saladino, i was also content with Avi as a platoon at dh. but an of'er who can have a hit factor better than the K's. if that player can get an additional 15 hrs.... then that is gravy. with ref to sports writers, they all have an agenda and i take what they write with a grain of salt, but still i am still set on the sox getting an of'er. i would even settle for murphy, which i have been spouting for. trades, well that can be tricky with ref to assets the org has to make a trade work.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) According to Rosenthal, the Sox are still searching for OFs including Fowler, and may even trade Avi. So does bipolar Soxtalk get happy again? yeah that was last nite on mlb rumors page. so with you statement of bi-polar fans, i guess i am whomever disagree with the masses on this site are regulated to being bi-polar. really nice. however the window of opportunity is do something is now, there is an expiration date on this talent of this team, i would like to max out the success of the main core. not to wait for the money to come off the books in order to make other moves. btw, look at the state of the system, beside anderson, do the sox have other prospect to step in and succeed next yr, look at the fa's do you imagine the sox org to spend money and are there good fa next yr, or fa's that are a better fit than this yr group???

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) I still believe they will get another OF. No one has yet to report what Desmond and Fowler and Jackson are asking. To say the White Sox aren't negotiating correctly by not giving them whatever they want isn't fair. They aren't the only team that could use these guys yet no team has signed them yet. When they are all gone and Avi is flailing away in RF and the White Sox are in 4th place, criticize all you want, they would deserve it. But right now? We all live on every latest tweet, yet how many actually are ever true? There is no doubt the budget is bigger for a guy like Cespedes or Gordon than it would be for a guy like Fowler or Desmond. but unless there is some horrific injury, Fowler, Desmod, and Jackson's prices aren't going higher. They are going to have to eventually settle, Desmond turned down over $100 million. Do you really think he would sign for 2 years $25 million right now or 3/$36 million? Maybe, but IMO, unlikely. There will be a time when he has to settle. It isn't now. Same with the other guys. if they do go out and get another piece then find, but i am saying they need to address it. i am also not advocating the org to spend money of the value of Cespy on flower, jackson, i am saying is until they find that last piece, i am going to be skeptical. yes, that is the results of being a fan of the sox, yrs of futility and bad mismanagement from the sox org. sad this is, for me, i am a sox fan and as such, have a right to voice my complaints.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) But if they are on a strict spending budget, then wouldn't it make sense they are not being frugal due to lack of money? How much money did they spend on FA last year for players like Duke, Robertson, Melky, LaRoche and traded for Samardzija and his salary? Doesn't sound like a frugal team to me. Obviously, in hind sight, they didn't spend it wisely and that spending combined with lack of results on the field which hurt attendance hindered their financial flexibility this winter. As ss2k5 pointed out, its possible JR ok'd excess money to be spent on the right player such Cespedes or Gordon or possibly Upton but players like Desmond, Fowler and Jackson aren't near the caliper of the big three, whom would help much more in bringing fans to the park than Desmond, Fowler and Jackson. Also, Fowler and Desmond come with a comp pick attached which is a steep price for those caliper of players, depending on what they are asking for, which BTW we don't know at this time. Fans complain about the Sox being cheap despite their spending last off season and in the past. Fans complain about the Sox not signing players that apparently did not want to sign with the Sox. Fans complain about not signing FA's and yet complain about a few of last years FA signings that unfortunately did not perform up to expectations. Fans complain about how the Sox aren't a team that can rely on spending in the FA market and yet complain when they do. Fans complain about the Sox trading prospects to fill holes and yet have only given up two prospects over the last ten years that have amounted to anything. Fans complain when rumors the media doesnt come true despite knowing that it's a writers job to write in ordsr to sell newspapers, get internet clicks and ignoring that most writers are stating their personal opinions that fans take as gospel Fans complain when when they gets their hopes up based on an internet rumor and the rumor ends up being false. Bottom line, some fans just want to complain, period. No matter what the Sox FO does, fans are going to find something to complain about. It's pathetic. again you make a very good compelling point. however you are taking and seeing one part of this, the team spending. ok, last yr, they spent on Fa's, what was the final total salary of the team??? now use that number and see how many times over the course of, lets say 5 yrs did they, the sox spend to that amount. + / -. those writers you mention are looking at the big picture and are not getting fixated on something that is really not close to telling the story. btw, if they had the budget to pay for the top 3 Fa's, then they still have the budget to acquire another player. anyway all agreed that the sox, if necessary would sacrifice their comp pick to improve the team...... listen here, the word is improve??? what i see that you find poster like i as pathetic b/c i do not personally buy into that fluff. what i find most disconcerting is fans are so gullible to believe every little word that the FO spews without question.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 02:49 AM) Well said sir! Too many fans made false assumptions, believed too much of what was being written as well as interpreting those writings into something they wanted to hear in hopes of their preconceived notions coming true. Now, its the front offices fault for being "cheap" despite the money they have spent as recently as last winter, which I admit, has hindered them to an extent this winter. Now we're back to the Sox don't have a "plan" nonsense, despite upgrading spots such as SP, C, 3B and 2B. Yep, that looks like a team without a plan to me. We all knew the Sox had numerous holes going into the off season and frankly, I'm surprised they have done as well as they have so far. Last I knew, opening day was April 4th and its only February 12th so theres still time for Hahn to acquire another bat. Just because things don't happen in the time frame some fans prefer doesn't mean they won't happen at all. I for one am excited to see what the current team is capable of and if they are able to add another bat, it will be that much better. you do make a point, but the team salary is now at 123 mil, and if they are on a strict spending budget, only the Fo will know about that, then it does go back to them as being frugal. and all the hoopla of trying to sign one of the big 3 was a farce, they may never have been that gun ho about getting one of those players, b/c of this money already being spent.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 03:16 AM) Talks are fluid. As some have stated, they have a range they will stay within for free agents. As of tonight that's not a match for either camp. It's really that simple. yup it is really that simple. unless the sox finds a deal, like latos and his salary for an of'er, the sox will not sign anyone else. another msg, another form of lip service to feed the fans....... we tried, but we couldn't get it done, but you have to give us credit, we have improve this team . team salary 123 mil + / -

QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 12:06 AM) http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/02/athl...sean-nolin.html "Davis is not very highly regarded with the glove, though defensive metrics have been mixed. He actually rated as a plus performer in left in 2014, but dipped into the negative territory last year." "Looking at the Milwaukee side of the deal, the 20-year-old Nottingham looks like the jewel. He went to Oakland from the Astros — then the home of current Brewers GM David Stearns — as the key piece of last summer’s Scott Kazmir deal. He’s still a ways off, having only reached the High-A level, but does represent a theoretical long-term replacement for star catcher Jonathan Lucroy — who has, of course, been mentioned as a trade candidate quite often this winter." many thanks for that info. i guess i am trying to put things in perspective, so in essence, it is like trading Corey Zangari + pitcher and if that is close to the value, i would say no thank you. but getting Davis with 2 more yrs of arb yrs and Fa in 1920, i still would like to try to find a way to make this trade, and the sox will save some money and not getting or spending money on Fa's. but this is just me.

QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 12:58 AM) The players the Brewers got are decent. It's a reasonable trade for both sides. Shame the Sox didn't get in, but Davis isn't a great piece IMO. Great power, but lousy .avg and nothing special defensively. thanks for that info. for me, i would question if he is better than Avi, defensively?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 11:48 PM) It makes no sense though, and even contradicts what Nightengale has said in the past. Nightengale never said the Sox couldn't afford the Big 3, just that the Sox supposedly refused to go above 3 years. Now after signing Latos for peanuts they're out of cash? Then what kind of 3 year contract were they going to offer? the strange inconsistency known as sox proclamations of money and profits.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 11:46 PM) One less team in the Jennings market really, i can see the sox trading 2 of the rp's but in your opinion, how are the players the brewers got.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 12:45 AM) Brewers and Reds will have a hell of a competition this year. Kris Davis was one player i was hoping the sox to acquire via trade, if the sox had the 2nd tier players to pull it off. i know, i am dreaming.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 10:34 PM) Time will tell on Avi. Too much doom and gloom in this take though; just because a free agent doesn't pick the Sox, it isn't automatically a failure per say. Sox would no doubt consider it a failure to overpay on a guy and have it hinder them in the future. Depends on the perspective. then, in that case, the sox can get all the laroche and avi on the team. failure to over pay.... that is the story of the sox history on the present ownership.

QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) Perhaps they replace him with Tim Anderson. Damn, that is what i call thinking out side the box. excellent response.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 08:59 PM) f*** yes to all of this. Couldnt have been too serious if neither ever seriously considered them. They can pay it lip service all they want, but this will be a failure we will all remember for a very long time. The first second Avi and the team fails this year, it will get poured on hard. No contending team would have Avi as a starter, plain and simple. this is the key phrase. like this, they, the FO can go to soxfest and pass along the "well we did try" if they, the sox does fix this team, get a viable OF'er, the fans will come to the games, they will make their money back. put the team on the field and the excitement on the south side will be fantastic.