LDF

you know, if the big 3 are gone and the fa market is not too enticing for what the sox wants or needs, i wonder, how bout Denard Span for a series of 1 yr contract for 2 yr and he can opt out after the first one.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 06:22 PM) I bet Varlamov and the Avalanche can but luckily they won't be in the playoffs anyway. i really wouldn't trust the hawks luck against, Dallas, Kings, and a lot of the eastern teams.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:26 PM) Lillian: One thing I've found in being a Sox historian and following the team for 55 years is this. Chicago baseball fans are probably the most provincial and most hateful (and I really mean that term) towards the other team in town. Far more than any of the other two team markets. It has transpired over the course of 100 years. This was the first major mistake of the Reinsdorf - Einhorn operation and they should have known better given how long they lived in Chicago before getting the club. From the very beginning their attitude was "we are Chicago's American League team..." They said this publicly and often. I have in my library for example the post game show on WGN from April 81 after the Sox crushed the O's 18-5. Harry Caray asked Einhorn about the excitement around the Sox and how the Cubs bad start would help them and EE immediately started in with the same nonsense, "we don't care what the Cubs do, we compete against ourselves..." and so forth. That refusal to acknowledge the fact that both teams are in direct competition for the entertainment dollar, for media coverage, for sponsorship deals is a big reason the Sox are where they are in their own home market. They have had solid, reasonable chances to take back a good percentage of those areas and urinated them away every single time. The fact is Cubs fans are not going to come out and root, root, root for the Sox at U.S. Cellular Field when they are on the road or can't get tickets and the opposite is also true. I'd say 90% or higher of Chicago baseball fans are for one team at the expense of the other. The term "casual baseball fans in Chicago" in my mind really doesn't apply. So the Cubs selling out won't force those folks in any great numbers into heading south for a baseball fix because their aren't a lot of them in the first place. Just my opinion. Mark excellent.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:19 PM) If the Sox truly are "All In.." let's hope like hell it turns out better than the last two times they took this approach (2011 and 2015). I mean they couldn't fall flat on their faces a third straight time could they? Mark if they take short cuts, yes.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) Omar: The proof I have is to look at the scores from 2000 through 2004. How often did you see the Sox score seven, nine runs in a game then get two or none the next few days? I also remember many of those games came (and still do) against garbage, mediocre, soft tossing pitchers who make the Sox hitters look like complete buffoons (Bruce Chen immediately comes to mind...) "Home Run or Nothing" attitude, philosophy leads to those swings in my opinion. I actually still remember focusing in on that after a particularly strong rant from Bill Melton on the post game show after the Sox were handled in Texas by a particularly bad pitcher, I think it was in 2003. Melton blistered Sox hitters for making no adjustments against a soft tossing guy instead simply trying to hit "eight run home runs..." Like you say home runs are needed, I agree but to me the Sox have yet to recapture the balance that helped lead them to a World Series title. More "adjustments" to that attitude are needed including for God's sake getting some guys who can actually catch a baseball and execute fundamentals (which falls directly on the manager and his staff in my mind, that's what spring training is for...) Mark and i would like to add, that was the whole reason on bringing the fences, so to fix the lack of defense and go for the power and hit hr. that was to make the fans like the game more. instead of drafting better and getting better player. they went for the window dressings, the hrs the nice firework display, the show.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) The fall back plan is one of the following: 1. Perhaps make a trade or sign a free agent from out of the bargain bin as February rolls around and guys are looking for any team to join. 2. Do nothing and "hope" Garcia figures it out. Mark i agree with #1 as well. but some teams haven't made any noise as of yet. i am wondering.....

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) We'll have to see if it really is over inflated. The glut of OFer's on the market is making many of these guys sweat it out. Fowler maybe should have been one of those guys to accept the QO . He most likely wants 4/5 years but it appears these guys are not going to get what they are asking especially if the Big 3 all sign for less than expected. yeah i agree, i think his agent screwed it up, he should have accepted the QO and then wait till next yr for fa's.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) Yeah, I posted that before I looked into Fernendez. I knew he had TJ but didn't realize he was such a health risk. I'd keep Rodon over Fernandez. I'd still like Ozuna somehow though. i can see liking ozuna but not for rodon and anderson. no matter including fernadaz in the pkg. but the marlins will want their pound of flesh in any deal.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:44 PM) Marcell Ozuna. Rodon, Anderson, Garcia and a couple other prospects for Fernandez and Ozuna. no way..... that will negate all the good work that was done.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 05:28 PM) I wonder if at some point they won't have a separate star wars movie to cover the gaps. I figure Disney is going to figure out ways to explain the rest of the universe and significant gaps. Monetize as much as possible (and as a Disney shareholder and a Starwars fan...I'm all for it). so they didn't make the 2nd one yet.... ok i am glad, b/c now, i hope they really get to expand on it. if done right, it can go for 3 or 4 more movies.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 04:36 PM) Basically what he did was try to erase the CGI bulls*** of the last 3 and go back to the gritty model/location based filming of 4-6 while basically repeating episode 4 as a nod to the original series and passing the baton. Nothing else really happened. They passed the baton in every single way and now we get to see Luke train the next him. It was a good and entertaining movie, but I was really hoping for a new plot or danger. I am hoping the next one is when we are exposed to something we havent seen before since he felt the need to basically make us forget about Epi 1-3. I also could have done without the lady behind me clapping whenever an old character showed up. i sat close to the front so i didn't have to hear all that, but i heard the kids in the theater.... that was nice to me. it made me enjoy it more.

i was thinking about this, would the sox deal with a 3 tier of'er and maybe bring in a better hitting dh?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 03:55 PM) The Bulls and White Sox have different ownership. Many of the same players but different. They each own a percentage of CSN. nice point, let me ask this, is the team as an org that owns the % or is the ownership group owns the % ..... but of the profit margin. now the northsiders as a club and org owns the %,. that is the fine line in this and just maybe the answer is in that and only the acct will know the true answer.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 04:48 PM) The White Sox own part of the network. When teams are good and ratings high, the cost to advertise increases, which increases revenue, and profit.of which the White Sox snag a percentage. I read an article about it in Crain's last year. When the teams are interesting, not only do the ratings rise for the airing of their games, but all their programming gets a bump. but the ownership is different. i was nailed on this board and rightfully so on the ownership part. 2 different companies and 2 different income for 2 different items. i wish i can remember who nailed me, but they were right

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 03:41 PM) My point being, if they do, it will be to join the Cubs bandwagon, or the White Sox, if they are winners. Not just the sport. The Cubs bandwagon and Wrigley Field is full of people that have no idea what a balk is. There are now thousands of Blackhawks "fans" that couldn't name 5 players on the team. With the renovation at Wrigley, which will actually make it nice, the White Sox have very little chance competing with that particular bandwagon. Even if they win the WS 3 times the next 5 or 6 years and the Cubs fall short, the pendulum might slow, but it won't swing the other way. Except it and move on. The Cubs do their thing, the White Sox do theirs. Capturing the entire city isn't necessary. Even in 2005', when they never where not in first place, they drew a total of 50k for a 3 game series in September vs, KC with a team that at the time was 34 games over .500 and had a 9 1/2 game lead. They had 17 home games in September 2005, and only drew 30k six times. To think they can overtake the Cubs by winning, is a nice theory, but most likely factually incorrect. Like someone said in another thread, it is a Cubs town. It doesn't mean the White Sox can't be successful, but they aren't going to be as popular. a nice post, but i disagree esp with the bold. the best way to win fans, esp the fans who will come to a team if they are winning, is to win. and win big, meaning the WS. if the sox won multi times in several yrs, the fans will come out, maybe never over taking the city but they will break the 3 mil mark for tickets sold, adv companies coming to knock on the door and adv on csn think of the trickle down affect. yeah i will agree, that maybe the sox would never over take the sCrubs and their popularity but they could put a huge dent in their support system. and if they could have down this in the past, today will be a different story of how many fans still follow the northsiders. so now, the concentration chg to operating money and adv. look in baseball ref and look at the total fans that came out, 1 yr after the WS, 2006 and see the difference in 2007. the fans will come out for a winner. now the sox are crawling for a success of selling out weekends and striving for profit on that side. wow, that is a huge fall in mentality...... trying to find ways to survive the popularity in chi.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 03:31 PM) You are absolutely right. That's precisely my point. If the Sox are not good, they would be missing a great opportunity. they have missed the boat some many times in the past and with better gm's at the helm. what make anyone think the sox owners will see the light now????

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 03:12 PM) How did the Giants winning three titles affect the A's plight? The Yankees helping or hurting the Mets, well that's hard to separate from Madoff/Wilpon. The Angels are clearly a team that expanded their fanbase in competition with the Dodgers, but there are very few owners who will spend money and exhaust resources like Arte Moreno. They really set out to compete directly at a time when the Dodgers were in chaos with the McCourts. Then Balt and Wash to a lesser extent. The White Sox absolutely need some oxygen and column inches...85% of the media attention has been focused in the direction of Cubbieland. Without a colorful manager or the original Boy Wonder GM, it makes the challenge even more daunting, and Hahn's more likely to inspire a fiscal accounting seminar than excite the fanbase. Plus JR's health has him backing off a bit. There's the theory the Cubs selling out games and devouring sponsorship opportunities will float the White Sox boat too as those left out are forced to go with the Sox or be shut out. We shall see...will those unallocated media rights dollars flow to the Southside in 2019, and how likely is CSN to double our deal unless someone else is bidding against them? At that time, we will probably own 50% of the station, with the Blackhawks and NBC/Universal the other 25% each. i am going to reach here, it does help the sox, b/c they are forcing the owners to s*** or get off the s***ter and put a product on the field where the fans will come out.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 03:10 PM) From a White Sox perspective, the one thing that is good about the Cubs being insanely popular again, is the profit at CSN goes higher, which theoretically gives the White Sox more money to play with. no it doesn't ..... the owners of that is a little different. it like saying more fans comes out that mean more money for the sox to invest b/c of more money the vendors make.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) Looks like we're deep into screener season. Guess I'll watch The Hateful Eight this week. Star Wars isn't releasing a screener for this very reason. Despite the fact that the best, highest-grossing movies never get any awards, this will further hurt their chances. yup, i am going to see hateful 8 this afternoon. btw, that is a great picture of the star wars on your msg.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) I loved that Kylo Ren was not some unstoppable pure dark villain. He is like Anakin and Luke, but from the other side. Instead of turning to the dark side, they worry about him going to the light. Which I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. there have been sooo many great insights to the movie, i am able to piece alot together, but this post explain the best logic on Ren to me.

i really don't buy what you are saying. don't get me wrong, it is a nice topic, but the whole things of the sox fans and with the northside resurgence, nah, that is utter crap. not you, the idea of it. the sox fans i know wants nothing of the success the northside may get. the only way for the fans of the sox to be happy, put the team out there that most sox fans can look and say, yes.... the owners did right, we, the sox fan will see anyone in the playoff, and that will include the northsiders.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:53 AM) Stop me if you've heard this one before- Toews with the OT GWG the hawks are on a roll. i will not talk about anything negative. i was reading a projection, based on some sort of stats, i think it is stats alone and not some kind of metrics. but they, in the article projected the hawks to being 3 or 4 seated coming out of a the toughest division in the nhl. i am happy for Dallas, they really needed this shot of success for their fan base. but playoff time, it is a whole new game....

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 01:04 PM) He did such a good job I didn't even recognize he was in the movie until just reading that comment. I guess it makes sense a totally unknown actor couldn't easily be the antogonist to DiCaprio. yeah, i am really becoming a fan of his, Hardy, since his appearance in the bbc virgin queen, he has grown so much as an actor. i am not a fan of DiCaprio, but as an actor, he too has reach his prime.... acting wise, this was a good movie. on a side note, can you imagine lying on a rotted logged full of maggots so they can eat all the dead skin and infection from someone wounds..... talking about being tough....

name='caulfield12' 1) Injuries the sox should've had backup for that, esp in the pitching 2) Tough early schedule against AL Central, etc. this is no excuse. the sox had nothing to do with the scheduling. 3) Took time for the coaching staff to gel together come on, other coaches does not need to be babied like this. 4) The White Sox don't have enough quality depth to provide "surer" options than Saladino, Erik Johnson, Lawrie, Avi Garcia, etc., and like most teams we can't develop OR afford one of the best catchers in the game money is needed to get quality b/c on the fa or lack of good drafting and poor planing>>>> owners fault 5) Bad weather in April/May...offense can't get into a rhythm other team plays in the same wx and what are their excuses. 6) Lack of fan support/fans waiting to see if the team's for real first before coming out why waste good money on a s***ting product. 7) Lack of chemistry because of all the chances in the INF (Frazier/Saladino/Lawrie) you are making an assumption on next yr. i rather wait and see. 8) Should have cut bait with Danks and LaRoche but couldn't afford to due to payroll limitations danks can still be a option at the #5 spot. laroche, i will refrain here.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 04:47 AM) Of course I know as do we all who owns the team, that's not the issue (although it is clear from both KW and RH's own mouth as well as the Showtime series from back in 2010 that JR is a very hands-on owner. NO MAJOR decisions aren't made without his approval) That's not the question though is it, who runs the day to day decisions, who makes the calls before submitting them to JR for his final yes or no is the question I submit and the evidence just in print is clear based on their own comments from KW and RH that there is plenty of room for doubt by many fans. I don't find that rooting for or against any individual or from how things have been done. Nor does that suggest I'm for a "go for it (yet again)" approach or a complete rebuild, I've already stated I don't care...yet again, pick a plan and stay with it is all I'm saying. The Sox HAVE NOT been a very successful franchise over the past 35 years, the number of playoff appearances bear that out. That's not even open for discussion. The question is why not given their resources and advantages over the other teams in the division. Could a unwieldy front office be part of the reason? Maybe, hard to say without actually being in the room. But that doesn't negate the legitimacy of the question does it friends and neighbors. this sounds like the beginning of mark anthony speech at caesar funeral, no offense intended. I'll be interested to hear what the "excuses" are come this June if the Sox stumble badly out of the gate again and perhaps Ventura is fired, and then we'll get an update on the "three year plan / window." Mark the success or the failures fall directly on the owners, not b/c they have the money and that should dictate who makes the final decision. b/c they had the balls to think they can run a baseball org without knowing or having first hand knowledge of the game.... meaning the behind the scenes and dealings with other teams, trades and draft. now from the business side, they have made themselves millions and millions of dollars and new businesses, but that is not what i am talking about. now the state of the team, since 2012, the org is the worst shape than ever and i will say they got extremely lucky with the WS. from a fan pov, thank you very much, however since then, garbage!!! the main question is why??? b/c the owners refuses to get that key smart baseball man who could run the company, the org, who knows what to do for a farm to be good and successful. oh yeah and to pony up on the money, which they have. i am not even talking about the draft and the poor results from that side. the sox owners need to step back and let the baseball people run the show, and get a better man at the top, kw has proven that he can't do it. now with ref to next yr, if they come out stumbling again, we as fan now can point the finger directly at the cause, it is the manager and again it comes back to, who hired the manager???