LDF

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 11:30 PM) Expect an outfielder. trade or FA, the the hard cap for the sox in spending is still what was mention earlier in another thread, 130 mil.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 11:12 PM) I'd rather sign Upton over Maeda. I don't think Danks or LaRoche's salaries are going to be a big concern, they both only have 1 year left. If by the deadline they're really struggling and a better option presents itself from within or elsewhere, I doubt we'd keep playing them just because of the salary. We really don't have better options for those two positions right now, so there's no reason not to play them. At least give LaRoche a chance to see if he can bounce back, that's the best option at this point. That can change mid-season though depending on how things play out. according to another post, the owners has somewhat approved a salary up to 130 mil. depending on the player. so in essence, only 1 more fa and they are done for the winter. so larroche 13, is affecting the plans, b/c 13 mil is on the books and b/c the owners will not eat 13 mil just for the sake of eating 13 mil.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) Guys, LaRoche is not that big of a handicap. One year at $13M. If he bounces back, awesome, but there's absolutely no reason to give away prospects with LaRoche or take a massive deal. i will play the devil's advocate here. if the sox need to get that final piece, and the salary is at its limits, the sox, imo will not make that move, b/c a dead weight contract is on the books, that contract belongs to laroche. 13 mil is alot when the owners wants to justify ever penny .

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 04:22 PM) Welcome to the "White Sox are cheap and don't care as much about winning as the bottom line" offseason when all the remaining big names come off the board and musical chairs leaves the Sox as the last team left out in the cold. Half-in=death by 1,000 knife cuts well, i will say this WAS true, and i used to be the biggest "show me" where i was wrong attitude. but this yr, i have a feeling that it may be different and i believe this process of changing started last yr.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 04:10 PM) I have faith in the Sox FO not being dumb enough to follow suit. this again has proven yours and my thought process from last yr.... when we talked about it. i will say that last yr fa signing was kw. this yr, it is a slow, deliberate careful attack in fixing the holes that the sox have. each trade, signing or every move was well thought of and address without rushing into it. can't wait until he continues to go about his work.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) The WW3 drills were the best. It was the only time in your life that you believed a wooden desk would prevent a nuke from killing you. As an adult, I realize that was the exact intent of the drill...to make the kids feel safe. It worked. I remember a time wondering if the world was going to be over the following day...be glad you've never had to feel that. i really hate telling this, but the missile crisis with russua and cuba, those were, i don't know, i was too young to understand. but we were doing it 3 times then after the crisis once a month.

ok, the trade for frazier may have been the far from perfect trade, or frazier is the far from perfect 3b, but it fixes a major hole in this team now and will fix it in the next 2 yrs left on his contract. while at the same time providing a nice bat to help this team. this is a nice stop gap, temp fix until the minor league system the sox has, will start producing. plus like it or not, he will help this team become competitive again, esp in chicago.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 01:36 AM) Imagine the hoopla and chaos that would ensue if the Sox signed both Upton AND Cespedes man, i would cry b/c the owners finally saw the big picture. sign upton and give him a 2 yr opt but would it be greedy for me to ask if they will get another sp of some sorts to help and a ss???

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 05:56 AM) There was some talk earlier about what power JR has to make decisions, is he chairman or majority owner, etc... It really doesn't matter. JR and co. bought the team for $20M. Forbes puts their value at just about $1BILLION now. That's something like 5000% ROI (if I'm figuring that correctly) on $230M in annual revenues. Money should never be an issue with this franchise. JR could literally spend $500M on payroll for a single season and his fellow investors would STILL be in line to make a ton of money off of their investment. The difference between a $100M payroll and a $150M payroll, assuming the team with $150M payroll has some success, is not really much of gamble in the grand scope of things. Look, we've got Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Fulmer cost-controlled for the next several years. Pitching wins in the playoffs. If there were ever a time to go all-in, it's now. I am forced to believe that KW and RH are saying the same things to JR and money will NOT be an obstacle as we continue to turn this team into a contender. Sox fans have no reason to be down on this team....we can, and I trust will, make the moves necessary to get back on the map as a respectable franchise. the total value of the company does really help and hurt. but that will be done on the calendar yr and with the accts. it does provide some positive cash to play with as long the numbers at the end are equal, mean profit and lost. but again that the acct side of the business. i will make this a little plainer, since the late 90's, the sox have stated that they do not have the money like other companies, so they were looking at 120-130 room.... for this, i will use 125 mil as the 1/2 point. since then, the sox have pickup adv companies and until recently lost adv companies and yet that 125 as been constant / unfluctuating. now with the tv deals that been announce and many org spending more b/c of it, the sox again has been constant at 125 mil. this is a strange event where those numbers are always unfluctuating when the org gets another boost of money incoming.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 05:27 AM) I like Dan...but so far he's been a little bit off with what's going on. He forgot Cespedes(he corrected himself later) doesnt have a QO offer attached. Plus I told him Rick Hahn said in an interview I believe it was on MLB Radio that he was talking to free agents with draft picks attached. Nightengale said they were discussing OFers like Upton. Even Merkin is kind of changing his tune on this. I dont think they really know what's going on. interesting reading... my only question is why do you think this is happening????

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 01:40 AM) Driving around a bit earlier, listening to 1000 and 670 discuss the trade. The guys on 670 couldn't wrap their minds around this direction. The "going for it" direction. Trading prospects for MLB players. Their argument is that it probably only adds 2-5 wins to a team that only won 76 games. That is possibly true. Even if they add a big-name outfielder, will they have added enough wins? Maybe not! Then what was this exercise good for? Why did the Sox go for it instead of cashing in on assets? It feels like the Sox, in the position they are in, have to go for it. Hahn has repeatedly said that they want to win a championship WITH Sale and Abreu, instead of selling them off. It only makes sense to go for it, while they are here, while they are good. Build the best team you can without completely dismantling the farm. But if our worst fear comes true, that the Sox yet again have another season of mediocrity, will there still be that feeling of being pigeonholed into attempting to contend? If the Sox add an OF, their roster will look pretty set for at least the next 2 years, short stop and catcher aside. After this season, they could move Melky to DH and replace him with Avi(if he gets good) or another OF. They could also attempt to bolster short stop should Saladino prove not good enough, as well as be on the prowl for another upgrade at catcher. Or they could finally decide to go in the other direction. Why? Because it won't be too late. In the shoes of Rick Hahn, it would be incredibly difficult to ignore the following assets and what they might be able to retrieve you via trade: Melky (1 year left) Robertson (2 years left) Duke (1 year left) Frazier (1 year left) Lawrie (1 year left) Admittedly, since you cannot expect all 5 of those players to be at their maximum possible value by the end of next season, this group probably wouldn't bring in more then 1 or 2 blue chip prospects, along with lots of lottery tickets and decent to good prospects. That would be a pretty nice farm reload, all while still leaving the front office the option of either keeping Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton, or selling them off and really going for a rebuild. You could try to trade any number of them and acquire some big-time prospects and MLB ready players. You could also trade none of them and still try to build around them, given their friendly contracts. But trading at least Sale and Quintana might not be a terrible idea. If the Sox are savvy enough, and with enough luck, you could have a bunch of new young players taking their lumps in 2017 with a rotation headlined by Rodon, Fulmer and Adams, and by the time the '17 and especially the '18 off season rolls around, potentially be in a good enough spot to where you could add a few key free agents to a budding club. The point of this post is to illustrate that the Sox, while committed to winning now, are not so committed to winning now that the future is completely jeopardized. I hope I have shown that with the possibilities that the future could hold for the franchise. and ref to the bold, here is how i look at it, if they do not add a big bat but go thru another rt, it would have been b/c of the owners refusing to commit to winning.... or try to win thru the cheapest rt possible. the sox will need to address what i have been saying, ss is the ss poistion, and can live with saladino or alexei. but a of'er and dh are 2 major needs and another not so major should be an extra sp. now if these are address without loosing any sp, that rotation is fantastic, they will carry the team. the other thing will be up to the manager. mr RV, the team is there, i just really hope you are up to the job to take this team to the next step.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 03:53 AM) With the pop we now have at 2b and 3b I'm not really worried about upgrading SS. Put Saladino there and hope he plays GG defense and his bat doesn't kill us. What we do still need is a middle of the order hitting RF and a lefty mashing platoon player that can play OF defense well so LaRoche(if he's still on the team) never see's an AB against a lefty. The RF options are obvious in free agency, but not sure I see the good fielder who hits lefties available in free agency. Would have to be a trade target, but not sure who. Eaton CF Melky LF/DH Upton/Cespedes RF Abreu 1B Frazier 3B Laroche/TBA(OF who plays LF vs lefties and Melky DH's) Lawrie 2B Avila/Navarro C Saladino SS That looks like a division winning lineup if I've ever seen 1. you are correct in soooo many ways it is funny. however and i still maintain that it is extremely important to add another sp to the rotation. who care if they will to trade for one, on mlbt about Cory Luebke, he can be both the sp if needed or a relief pitcher. this team will be fun to watch, esp with the 2 bats you were saying.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) This org can't afford to dump prospects purely to get out of a contract, imo. We are talking one year too. Absolutely under no circumstances should they do that. you do make a good point and that i prob what many will think. i will say this, it all depends on the pkg, the prospects added and if the trade makes sense.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:21 PM) Yeah the Dodgers going for floor over ceiling is a smart move. Don't get the Reds end. if anything, this is the best they were going to get.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:04 PM) I'll join the chorus of posters who have agreed with this comment. If the team goes into the season carrying Garcia, Saladino/Sanchez, and LaRoche as everyday players, we aren't going to be good enough. Need that FA outfielder to make this work well, and then Avi could possibly be the platoon bat to pair with LaRoche (with an OPS of .760 last year against lefties). With Danks and LaRoche gone in 2017, that should cover the cost of the corner outfielder. the avi and laroche idea. i like it. it will work.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:45 PM) At first, I thought the Sox gave up too much. After getting some perspective, I like it. I do think this helps the Sox in a big way but I'm like most people here, this move makes sense but would make much more sense with an top notch OF'er on the market. I'm not going to sit here & say I think this move or another move makes them a playoff contender... Mainly because I thought that last year & this team bombed. What I will say is, I like the offseason so far but only because I don't think they are done. Would like to see a big bat in the OF & possible some protection in the SP department. Also, this move still doesn't stack us up with the Cubs & it really shouldn't matter what they do unless both of these teams end up in the WS against each other. i am with you on this, b/c of last yr, i will refrain from predicting a playoff team again. but i can see this team having the makings of a fun team to watch.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox helped LAD get Fernandez as part of a three team deal with Puig coming back to us. with what the marlins may ask, i would want Jose De Leon from the dodgers.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) 1a. White Sox. 1b. Dodgers ... 3. Reds

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 09:16 PM) I really like the trade. I think it is a good move and I am not going to lose any sleep over what we gave up. However, I think this makes improving the OF defense tough, which I think needs to be a priority. I had more or less penciled in a (close to) everyday OF alignment of Eaton-Thompson-Avi / FA pick up. Without Thompson, it goes back to Melky-Eaton-Avi/FA. I think this team really needs two OF....one of Upton/Gordon/Cespedes, and a lesser guy who preferably bats LH if you go with Upton or Cespedes. Someone like Parra or Span who can platoon with Avi, which gets him out of the OF against RHP, and also moves Melky to DH most days which I think is necessary. vs. RHP Gordon/Upton/Cespedes (in order of my preference) Eaton Parra/Span DH: Melky vs. LHP Gordon/Upton/Cespedes Eaton Avi DH: Melky LaRoche becomes late inning defensive replacement and gets the occasional start against RHP. This is probably unlikely, but I think this is what makes the White Sox a real contender. as you said, there will be alot of options that the manager can employ.... that being said, i see 2 majors holes and a minor one to be address. but as of right now, this has the looking of an exciting team to watch.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:10 PM) The Pirates aren't going to take on $12 million, or even $5 million, unless you give them a really good reason to do so. None of the guys listed in this thread (Avi, Beck, Putnam, Webb) are even a decent reason. Basically, ask yourself, would you pay $5 million for any of those guys if LaRoche started off next season like he finished last season and was cut by the end of May? If you want the Pirates to take on a guy who was worthless last year and take money on in the process, you have to give them something worth that money. If you want them to take on $5 million, you have to give them a prospect they'd pay $5 million for. If you want them to take on $12 million, you have to give them a prospect they'd pay $12 million for. and i agree with you. but ref the bold. i never posted the list of players you are mentioning. someone else posted that. but you are right, the sox will need to sweeten the deal. only the 2 teams will know what that cost is.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:05 PM) just because one team said they didnt want Laroche doesnt mean its completely over and he is untradeable forevs. teams swap bad contracts, sometimes players move on i would be really honest here and remember i have been advocating a trade with laroche and prospects / players to sweeten the deal. but do i really think that will happen??? nah.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:02 PM) With so many prospects involved there is no way to determine a winner in the trade until the prospects have had time to show what they can or cannot do. However, the Sox got their guy so that is an overall win for the team. excellent, now i will use greg post on another thread. but i will need to add another statement to it. if the sox can fix both the dh and of'er, with key players and without loosing anyone key prospects. i will sing this from the highest building. time to go and get your season tickets.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) This. ^ Nobody is going to trade for a defensive 1B with no power and will make 13M next off season. Not sure why this concept is so difficult to understand. and you make a great point. but since i been using the pirates, 1. they the pirates need a stop gap at 1 b for one yr, until their prize prospect is ready to step in. 2. laroche will solidify the 1b position that has been lacking a good defensive 1b for yrs, 3. he still hit 12 hrs with the sox and if anything, will prob put up better numbers without that b/s stress on him. this can go with balt and the brewers excuse as well. but this is me and my opinion.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:41 PM) I don't think you can grade this trade without seeing what else the front office has planned for the offseason. I fully expect the Sox to aggressively pursue Cespedes, Gordon or Upton and land one of those three players in order for the Frazier deal to make more sense. You have Chris Sale and Jose Abreu locked up and in their primes...don't waste that opportunity. With Danks and LaRoche coming off the books after this season the White Sox should have money to spend to land another bat to get this team competitive. OF - Eaton OF- Cabrera 1B - Abreu 3B - Frazier OF - FA Signing Cespedes/Upton/Gordon DH - LaRoche (pray he bounces back) 2B - Lawrie SS - Saladino/Anderson/FA Signing C - Navarro/Avila That lineup would be considerably better than the past few seasons and would make for an interesting season you like many others want to judge the trade at face value. and at face value i have stated the frazier provides what the sox have been searching for, and the price is ok with me. but there is alot of smoke around the edges of this trade that i am looking at, the long term possibilities of this. the positives followed by a negative. they will now compete on close to equal footing with the northiside. if they address both their of'er and dh. (screw this b/s of laroche) keeping this sp rotation in tact without trading anyone needing to sign and additional sp great offense on the 2b and 3b they will need to bring in alexei - ss.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 08:38 PM) Given what was lost and what was gained, I love it for the Sox and Dodgers. Poor job by the Reds. actually i think it is different, cincy did great ...... only the sox got what they been coveting for dodgers sacrifice the most, they have the best setup of the 3 team and a nice farm, but to go for the rp of the future without the cost of the fa price tag.