Soxy

thanks

inning/score?

Wow, what a nice story (wipes eyes).

A very interesting article. I'm on Sojourner's Listserve (a progressive Christian zine) and this got sent out today. Food for thought. . . Acts of God or sins of humanity? by Wes Granberg-Michaelson From a vacation cottage Karin and I watched on TV as the desolation unfolded in New Orleans and the Gulf coast. Through that agonizing week we sat helpless with millions, while the world's most technologically powerful nation could not provide food, water, and rescue to fellow citizens whose desperate faces filled our screen and haunted our consciences. Commentators described Hurricane Katrina as a "natural disaster," or at times as an "act of God," like language used in some insurance policies describing events beyond human control. It means no one is liable. Except, of course, God. And that's what troubles me. How can a God of love, Creator of all that is, be responsible for such terrible, destructive disasters? But as I listened, reflected, and prayed during that week, another question emerged. Just how "natural" was this disaster? Consider this, for instance. When Katrina left the Florida coast, it was classified as a "tropical storm" - not even a hurricane. It picked up tremendous power as it passed through the Gulf of Mexico, in part, experts think, because the waters of the Gulf were two degrees warmer than normal. So by the time it reached New Orleans, it was a category four hurricane. Years before becoming general secretary of the Reformed Church in America, I led a group studying global warming and the responsibility of the churches for preserving the environment when I served as director of Church and Society for the World Council of Churches. Even then (1990), a clear global scientific consensus warned that global warming due to human causes - especially the accelerated use of fossil fuels - was causing disruptive climate changes. And I clearly remember listening to scientists say that one effect could be that storms such as hurricanes would increase in their intensity and destructive effects because of warmer waters and changing sea levels. So a part of Katrina's fury was not completely "natural." And there's more. New Orleans was built between the Mississippi River and the Gulf of Mexico, with much of the city below sea level. Its vulnerability to flooding from hurricanes was partly protected by the wetlands between the city and the Gulf. These act like a "speed bump," absorbing and lowering some of a hurricane's force. But they've been disappearing, making way for shopping malls, condos, and roads, so 25 square miles are lost each year - an area the size of Manhattan. And the city has kept moving closer to the Gulf. Moreover, the levees and dams constructed to protect the city and "control" the Mississippi deprive the wetlands from the sediments and nutrients that naturally would replenish its life. There's a lot "unnatural" about this "act of God." And then, consider the victims. Those who have suffered the most are the poorest, and most of them are black. Twenty-seven percent of New Orleans residents lived below the poverty line, and many of those simply had no cars, or no money, and no way to leave. That also isn't "natural." The poverty rate, and the gap between rich and poor, continues to increase in this nation, and that is a national disgrace. More to our point, that's a sin, condemned by literally hundreds of verses of scripture. Those most vulnerable to Katrina have been kept on society's margins by persistent economic injustice and racism. I celebrate the tides of compassion flowing in the wake of Katrina. Organizations such as Church World Service and the Salvation Army bear the compassion of Christ to the desolate, homeless, and hopeless. And I still don't fully understand why, in the providence of a loving and all-powerful God of creation, things like hurricanes and earthquakes happen. But I do know this. When I see the devastating effects of Katrina, I don't simply regard these as an inexplicable "act of God." I also focus on the sins of humanity. We've disobeyed God's clear biblical instructions to preserve the integrity of God's good creation, and to overcome the scourge of poverty. In the aftermath of Katrina, we desperately need not only compassion, but also repentance. Wes Granberg-Michaelson is general secretary of the Reformed Church in America. Reprinted from the Church Herald, October 2005. © 2005 by the Church Herald, Inc. Used with permission. Another version of this article will appear in the print version of the October 2005 Church Herald and on the Church Herald Web site herald.rca.org.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) /Pours gas on the fire (somewhat tongue in cheek) Because it makes the institution of marriage cheaper. Heck, let's marry our cats and dogs, because we love them. In Tennessee, let's marry my sister, because we can. I mean, I'm a guy and she's a girl... nothing wrong with keeping *it* in the family... it ain't hurtin' no one. /uh oh... Incest is a more difficult case, because there you have two consenting adults. But I think the biological difficulties can arise from inbreeding. As for marrying your cat, a civil union is a binding legal contract. You cannot enter into one of those with a non-human or a minor. So, I don't see that as a valid counter point.

QUOTE(bmags @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 01:14 PM) when did this board become a group of people just waiting to call out for a suspension on somebody else... a bit 1984ish. This is by far the exception not the rule.

I was warned by a psychic to stay away from them. Which was odd because it was a very specific warning. So, no. (Best response ever when I told someone that: Was your psychic a neurologist?)

My favorite breakfast food (I just discovered it): Malt-O-Meal's fake honey nut cheerios. Mmmmmmmmmm

QUOTE(Steff @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 11:10 AM) Strawberry jello for breakfast... not so bad. Do you have the flu? I can't swallow jell-o. Don't know why. . .

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 01:39 AM) Trust me, Fruity Pebbles + 2% millk + 2 weeks on a window sill = living organism. I never knew you were a scientist Cheat!

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 01:35 AM) That is the toughest statement to prove of all that has been posted here today. If anyone ever says they've "proved" something in science discredit them immediately.

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 01:29 AM) The fact that there is an environment for ANY living organism is the most improbable fact of all. Again, not if the directionality is different. Enviroment wasn't created for organism, organism evolved to survive in enviroment.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 01:21 AM) So let's add it all up: 1) Quantum Theory research has led to major discussions of God & our spiritual existence. 2) QT deals with the Subatomic world which makes up the atomic world & in turn the molecular world. 3) Recent reseach is leading to the belief that extraordinary events have led to human evolution. Events that suggest there is more at work than just spontaneous mutation & natural selection. That's the factual scientific basis for ID. 1.) Discussion does not equal fact, in fact, this discussion is probably mostly among Philosopher's and Science Historians, thus moving it further from fact. 2.) Not sure relevence, but I'll give you that's a fact 3.) I think that Balta has sufficiently refuted that as a fact, and more as your interpretation (NOT FACT) of the research. Which does not, necessarily draw the same conclusions as the researchers.

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 01:20 AM) Okay, you can spontaneously have an explosion occur if gases build up somewhere... But it is HIGHLY improbable that the rocks, debris etc. from that explosion can just happen fall into place so that it creates a planet that is 100% perfect for living organisms. Perhaps the directionality of your statement is wrong--the planet wasn't created "for" the organisms, but the organisms for the enviroment. I know that still doesn't get around your central claim that it is improbable, but I think it's an important question to ask: to what degree are we a product of our enviroment and to what degree was life initially facilitated by the enviroment that allowed the synthesis of the basis of life as we know it.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 12:54 AM) You have nailed it. I view ID to mean Intelligent Design but the majority of the 64% polled view it as Intelligent Designer. All I've advocated is that spontaenous mutation & natural selection alone do not account for human evolution. Darwin himself stated the same thing when asked about the human eye. He used the word "absurd" at that notion. Perhaps, and I think that this is the central tenent of evolution/natural selection/etc that the human eye (which, I agree, is not the most efficient design) is not done evolving? And that in a million years or so the design might be radically different? Or the brain differently organized? I think you're missing the point of evolution--evolution says there is no FINAL product. We will continue to evolve as long as we exist on the planet, thus any unefficient designs will be streamlined through natural selection, propogation of the fittest, etc. . .

QUOTE(SnB @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) I've met alot in person and have had nothing but awesome experiences with everyone. It's like high school all over again. QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Sep 8, 2005 -> 12:06 AM) Except your cool here Exactly like high school--complete with ATROCIOUS grammar. EDIT: Although mad props to SnB for using the correct form of it's. . .

You can say that again wino!

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Pi mmmmmmmmmmmmm 3.1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 6939937510 5820974944 5923078164 0628620899 8628034825 3421170679 8214808651 3282306647 0938446095 5058223172 5359408128 4811174502 8410270193 8521105559 6446229489 5493038196 4428810975 6659334461 2847564823 3786783165 2712019091 4564856692 3460348610 4543266482 1339360726 0249141273

Or that sketchy Chisoxfn character. . .

QUOTE(farmteam @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 11:20 PM) I heard something on the news about some victims getting a 2000 dollar debit card? Anyone else hear that? Yep, see the actual Hurricane Thread. I think someone posted a link about that.

QUOTE(winodj @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 11:17 PM) Cause Nuke Cleveland or Southside Irish or Controlled Chaos never talk about politics. Or G&T or SS2K5 or Kap. . .

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 11:17 PM) I heard that Atlanta was offering free housing and a $100 a day stipend for Katrina survivors to come there. I'd rather go to Iowa. God only knows where the free housing is. I can just imagine being put in pre-gentrification Cabrini as "free housing."

QUOTE(winodj @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 11:14 PM) I'd rather eat pie. What kind? If apple, yes. If not, I'll eat cake.

QUOTE(Balance @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 11:07 PM) Cake, Barbara? You say you want to let them eat cake? I'd like some cake!

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Sep 7, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Call me Moby? No, that's what I thought before I read it, but it's just called Ishmael, pretty interesting read about evolution and relationships with the earth and enviroment. Didn't agree with everything in it, but made me think differently about a lot of stuff.