SoxFan562004

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 30, 2010 -> 12:02 AM) I think you are missing the point that horrible for Thome is still better than Kotsay's best. Even if he doesn't keep up his current pace, he will end head and shoulders better than Kotsay and well above league average (just like he always has) and for dirt cheap. There are only 13 teams (other than the Sox) that use a DH, and very few that both a) had that spot open and B) had a reasonable chance at contending such that they would give up even a couple of million to sign someone rather than giving some youngster the at bats. You can go back and look at threads from the time before the Twins signed Thome and you will see a ton of us saying exactly that. I would have been fine with Thome back, but also KW might have asked around and heard a lot of names from GMs of more consistent bats that would likely be available around mid-season but not in the off-season and thought he had/has a legit shot at getting one of those guys.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:49 PM) That was referring to the royals. Seems to mean to me that despite getting a good amt. of men on base, many probably don't get into scoring position, and they have trouble getting them in. So sox starters getting out of a lot of jams against the royals doesn't seem that cray cray. ah, OK Sox are actually 20th!

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:33 PM) Yet there was many of us calling to bring back Thome in January/February when we knew KW was not gonna go out and get another bat, but stick with the Kotsay/Jones platoon which many here knew was a bad idea. I even warned people about Jones hot start to go down because he did the same thing last year with Texas and wanted him traded when he was still hitting in the .270s (.900+ OPS, etc..) but of course didn't happen. And I'm sure the Twins and their scouts are also glad they didn't listen to you badge regarding Thome. well, the same thing could happen to him in Minnesota this year, meaning he struggles at the end of the season... granted he's playing less, but I think a valid argument could be made it's the colder weather on his body that makes him struggle,not playing time.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:22 PM) There is no "the Sox thought he was done" argument. Kenny and JR wanted him back. They tried and tried and tried to convince Ozzie. Ozzie claimed he would not play Thome enough and that he respected him too much to sit him on the bench 5 or 6 days a week. I don't believe they even gave Jim a chance to accept whether he would sit on the bench for 5 or 6 days a week. While you would like to separate the two decisions, 1) to not sign Jim Thome and 2) to not replace him with a viable option because they did not have the resources, you simply cannot. It is unconscionable to pass on an .864 OPS player for $2 million and then not replace him because you have no resources. You simply cannot point to anything statistically significant whatsoever to justify that decision. forget resources, there was realistically nobody they were going to find at that point to replace

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:19 PM) 17th in runs scored. I think they can move a little with Q getting better and hopefully Gordon and Alexi adding something on a consistent basis, but to truly contend, not just hang around, they need another bat, lefty would be best but I would take a righty

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:17 PM) Kalapse, Youll have to be more specific im not good with pronouns. Do you mean Andruw Jones played the same positions as Kotsay? Princess, I may not be a lawyer but I slept at Holiday Inn Express one time! Soxfan, It seems that Jerry usually leaves a little in reserve for that special impact player. They didnt see anyone and thought it was a good business move to save the money for a rainy day. Who knows if they would have spent the money wisely. But maybe the money they saved will allow us to trade for a bigger impact player than we otherwise would have. Exactly my point, I think it's kind of a smart way to go about it, especially considering bats tend to move around the deadline, as I posted before they might not be able to get a lefty, but I imagine KW can find a bat around a 102 or 106 OPS+ which is where Damon and Matsui are right now

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:08 PM) The Royals hit an insane amouint of singles. It's bizarre. It's the players and a lot to do with the ball park, that thing is big and seemingly plays bigger, although I am surprised there's not more doubles since there are bigger gaps.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 11:02 PM) Youre taking my arguments out of context. The money argument was for Kalapse and why the Sox did not get a suitable DH replacement. The argument for Thome was that the Sox thought he was done and didnt have roster space for a back up DH who cant play any position. (Edit) If you can find one post where I said the Sox didnt sign Thome for financial reasons, feel free. But ive said they didnt sign him because he looked horrible and didnt play any field positions, it wasnt about money. The reason the Sox didnt sign another DH (THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THOME FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO CANT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND) is due to financial constraints. it depends if you believe JR or not, he said the team had extra money, before the season and said it last week again, if they feel the right player is there. So basically the money is there according to JR, it has to be the right player for the team, and apparently that wasn't there in the offseason but could be between now and July 31st. I know a lot of people here wanted Damon, and I put myself in that group, but he has an OPS+ of 102 right now SLG .391 and his best attribute of .365 OBP and Matsui has an OPS of .769. Granted those are better numbers than what Kotsay has put up this year, but it's not like those two would have a dramatic shift on this line-up up until this point of the year, an upgrade if they're in there? Yes, but nothing crazy. I buy the scenario that the Sox had/have extra money to add a bat, looked at the landscape, determined nobody was worth it at this point and see if they can get a better impact bat in mid-season with a creative GM.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 10:50 PM) You mean the 2nd best hitting team in the AL? they're middle of the pack in OPS, they're only 2nd best in BA... also, if yesterdays game is any indication they are a poor base running team

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 10:59 PM) Its not Kotsay vs Thome. They are not even similar arguments. The decision on Thome was entirely independent of the decision on Kotsay. They didnt think Thome had anything left, I honestly agreed with them. Maybe we were wrong, or maybe Thome has just been remarkably hot in limited at bats and will cool down. Who knows. But Kotsay was kept as back up 1b/of etc. Thome cant back up any position. If we kept Kotsay, the Sox would have no 1b back up. Theyd have had to get a guy who could play 1b, unless you want to start getting creative and putting new guys out there. Ive never even heard of a back up DH. I have zero problem with Kotsay being on the White Sox, the problem with is the role they are expecting him to fill. He is a solid back-up and PH, not an everyday player

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 10:56 PM) Its my opinion that the Sox were some what in a money bind last season after getting Rios/Peavy and completely flopping on the field. Worried about bad attendance to start this season (which happened), the White Sox were going on the cheap with free agents, feeling that they added Rios/Peavy. Id love if the Sox had unlimited resources, but I just think they were at the top of what they could spend. The real mistake was adding Pierre and his salary even if it is only 3mil/5mil the next 2 seasons. Its obvious that they wanted to change the dynamic of the team from a slow plodding one dimensional offense, to something else. Whether or not that something else is good, who knows. But I was honestly tired of seeing slow guys stepping up to the plate and swinging for the fences every at bat. Thome would not have been a burden to this team financially, it was a management decision to not keep him due to his lack of flexibility and Mark Kotsay doing OK in a full time role at the end of last year,

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 10:48 PM) Don't think it's been brought up but Thome also has the benefit of being in a solid lineup this year, getting pitches to hit. Dunn meanwhile you stay out of the zone on and take your chances with the next guy. Willingham with his .903 OPS and 143 OPS+ or the guy in-front of Dunn with the .892 OPS and 138 OPS+ are very good.

if Dunn came here I imagine being in a pennant race would take away some pouting and Ozzie can mix him in the OF and 1b every now and then. I don't think it would look to shabby to other teams if he came here and produced in a meaningful race.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 10:17 PM) I believe 6 IP, 4 ER or less is considered a quality start. 3 ER or less beat my shaq.... well MB and Gavin were able to get QS because the Royals have little pop and play in a cavern, but that aside, just stating the obvious, but this team needs another bat, yesterday and today should have scored more runs. Drove me crazy watching AJ give up his AB in the middle of the game, KC was pitching around him and he wouldn't take the BB

well yeah, Thome would have been great at the time, but unless KW trades for a time machine he needs to move forward... how as a Sox fan would I be extra insulted if they trade for Dunn? I would be more insulted if they didn't because they could have done something 4 months ago. This team went on a great run, but they desperately need another bat. With Cowley's report that their is rumblings "there are more teams interested" than the Sox or Angels it could mean the Sox get edged out or the Nats are putting that out there because they want to trade him quickly. It's not like Dunn is the only guy that's going to move, I imagine at least Luke Scott is going to go, a little step down from Dunn, but also Fielder and Berkman are prime to move from the left and I'm sure there's RH power hitters that will hit the market. Ideally the Sox would get a left handed bat, but at this point a full time quality RH'er would be OK with me.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 05:48 PM) Damn - that's quite the complement for Sale! it is the MLB draft, but many people I believe had him in the top 5 or at least 10, but there was signability and mechanical question marks

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 05:37 PM) Ok then, does anyone expect Dunn to keep hitting .276 for the rest of the year? How about next year or the year after? Is he going to hit better coming over to the AL from the NL? I doubt the White Sox are scouting/judging Adam Dunn on his BA, if they are they need to reconsider their philosophy. I would expect him to come over and OPS around .900 or an appropriate adjustment with his career 133 OPS+

QUOTE (Real @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 03:42 PM) Recap: Dunn has stated in the past that he wants to stay in the NL, wants to stay in Washington, Cowley doesn't see Hudson being a piece for a 3 month rental. Sees Andruw being the odd-man out (released/traded). Says Dunn might want to play 1B (....), doesn't think there will be many teams in the offseason willing to offer Dunn mucho dollars I think part of the recent spark in Dunn discussions has been the Nats were talking extension with him and it completely fell through, and he could always resign with them in the off-season.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 03:27 PM) Speaking of my tampering rant: New Jersey Nets minority owner Jay-Z wines and dines free agent LeBron James in New York this leads me to believe the Nets have little chance this time, because if this is true there's no way the NBA could let a part owner and FA flaunt their rules like this, if he ends up agreeing with the Nets other teams go insane. Yes, I do agree with the post that tampering is happening, I mean the stuff about WWW and Thibadu with the Bulls and reports about Riley talking to James people, but I also agree with the post that said the NBA doesn't want it out in public

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 02:57 PM) This is not an argument by any means, but do you think Dunn would sign for "only" $36 million? If so, I'd have no problem with your hypothesis. he got 2/20 last time, I don't think the market has shifted so drastically back to the players side that he should expect that big of a contract (meaning the 3 year deal listed above, I imagine the 2/20 is realistic), although I am saying this without looking at who else is a FA, last time there was at least Abreu, Ibanez, Bradley and Dunn on the market at the same time.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 02:33 PM) Thats a possibility. . KW will have to be creative in the offseason. . but that can happen. They will have to decide on the futures of AJ, Konerko and Jenks before anything. This is just a gut feeling, even with him pitching a lot better of late, Jenks is already decided on, he won't be coming back

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 02:31 PM) All this s*** is making my head hurt. I'm done with this until Thursday. well everything probably won't shake out until next week anyway, but some of the reports starting Thursday are going to be priceless, every breath one of those guys take is going to be analyzed and I bet we have a few "false" reports before things are finalized

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) Yes, recently with the Pierre and Teahen deals. cool, thanks for posting the info

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 02:20 PM) TIFWIW, but a family member of Kenny's confirms that talks are taking place and at this point a deal is likely. has this source came through before?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 29, 2010 -> 02:17 PM) Kalapse can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've gotten the impression that we have cut some salary this year compared to last, and last year we dumped 2 players at the end of the season to save about $2 million in salary as well. I will agree that Swisher was a salary dump two years ago, but, even though I was a fan of his, his contract was way over market. I'm not saying the Sox are going to add 10-15m to the payroll next year, I'm just basically saying that I can't remember a time where the Sox drastically slashed payroll to get into the season or KW hasn't come up with something creative to make the roster work.