santo=dorf

f*** no. IMO, you shouldn't pay a catcher that kind of money. We're on a mid level payroll and it's stupid to throw even $8 million for each of the next 3 years just because the guy has an OBP near .400.

I was in a chat room with Peter Gammons at boston.com, and he said the Red Sox are going to have to re-sign Cabrera because Vizquel (their back up plan) is pretty much going to sign with the White Sox.

I didn't realize that Zito, Hudson, and Mulder were locked up for the next 5-10 years. :rolly Who's says they're going to sign extensions with us? Didn't Bartolo say he wanted to stayy in Chicago, but refused the largest contract for a pitcher in the history of the White Sox?

How long have you been following the White Sox again? This organization is in Jerry Reinsdorf's control. People have been posting here and other sites that sources within the organization have told them that payroll would go up for 2005, but noone knows how much. This organization isn't like the Red Sox. The Sox haven't had a big name free agent signing since Albert Belle in 1996. The last time I got excited over the Sox signing a free agent was in Janurary of 2002 when we sign Kenny Lofton to a $1 million 1 year deal. (How sad is that?) The owner doesn't give out long term deals to pitchers because he has been made the right decision a few times (McDowell, Fernandez,) and got burned when he gave a 5 year deal to Jaime Navarro. I don't see ownership willing to raise payroll just to sign some guy for the bullpen and Odalis Perez. This is just based on how this organization has been operating since the White Flag trade back in 1997. If there is a "buzz" or more people are becoming interested in the Sox, they will increase payroll to get some quality names. This is one reason why I see ownership increasing payroll just to get Randy Johnson. He has a lot more market value than Odalis Perez, or Russ Ortiz, and he has one year left on his deal. He also happens to be a potential Cy Young winner. But you say "Trading for Johnson is stupid, just sign some guys." :headshake Try being a fan of the White Sox for more than a year, and you'll realize that just going out and "signing some guys" isn't much of an option for the White Sox under Reinsdorf's control.

So are we all in agreement about RJ?

What? I thought it was only 93 MPH.

Could someone please explain the obsession with Percival? We cannot pay what he is commanding, and his K's have dropped, and his velocity has dropped. I think he would just be another Billy Koch.

Is it wise to tell an administrator how do his or her job?

$35 million!!!!

With the White Sox and Red Sox you are comparing a possible $70 million payroll versus a $140 million payroll. Not $80 million vs. $100 million. I would love it if the White Sox spent $80 million on payroll next year.

Signing Odalis Perez would require the Sox to spend $16-21 million, because he'll probably want a 3 year deal. RJ would cost the Sox $16.5 million, but we would be cutting $8.75 million from Konerko, and $2.5-$4.5 million with Garland. The White Sox look at finances for the long run, not on a year-by-year basis. That's why I don't see Reinsdorf giving yet another pitcher a 3 year deal.

The only way we would be able to sign a bullpen guys would be if we dumped Konerko. I'm not for the idea of dumping Konerko just so we can sign some guy who'll pitch 60 innnings for us. $$$$ is also a big reason why the Red Sox won the World Series. The White Sox can't afford to sign Perez, and a bullpen guy. What did the 2000 Sox bullpen look like?

And in that injury season 2003, his ERA (4.26) was STILL better than Garland's in 2002, 2003, 2004 when he was in the rotation for the entire year. I guess Garland is "due" to have a better ERA than Johnson sometime in the next 10 years. :rolly :dips***

Remember how Cheat used to defend Cotts by comparing his ERA and BB rate to other rookies in the AL? I think that's good for the Royals.

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/trampoline.html I got that game from big-boys.com My highest was 583.

Could somebody here please tell me why you are so worried about Randy possibly getting injured? What did he do last year that makes you think he won't be able to be healthy for 2005? Yes he had surgery in 2003, but how did he come back? And how come I don't see as many people worried about Frank Thomas and Carl Everett, both of whom are coming back from injuries in 2004?

Yeah, but what happened to the Cards when they got there and ran into dominating pitching? They didn't get the lead for a single inning. How do you propose to improve our bullpen? Trade Konerko to sign Percival? If we are going to sign a FA starter, we won't have money to sign a bullpen guy. I can live with a bullpen composed of Politte, Cotts, Adkins, Marte, Shingo, and a couple of failed starters. I don't think we need to shell out big $$$ for bullpen guys, I think it's stupid to pay a guy like Billy Wagner $9 million to pitch 70 innings tops per year when a guy like Julian Tavarez can go the entire year with only giving up 1 homer. Just my $.02 on bullpen salaries.

Wite, I subtracted the difference to show how many games a FA starter would have to win in order to match a rotation that contained RJ and either Diaz or Grilli. Under my assumtions it would take 13-14 wins by a FA to match my ideal rotation. Buehrle (18-20 Wins) Garcia (16-18 Wins) FA, (13-14 wins) Contreras (12-15 Wins) Garland (11-14 Wins) Total: 70-81 wins. Which rotation would you rather have for the playoffs assuming both of them would get you there?

Red Sox wins by rotation: 73, 95 total wins Oakland wins by rotation: 62, 91 total wins St. Louis wins by rotation: 72, 105 total wins Braves wins by rotation: 65, 96 total wins And I said with a rotation of either Grilli or Diaz getting just 4-6 wins, our rotation could win between 70-81 games. You said it would take 90 games to win the division. See how much having Randy in the rotation improves the 5th starter's spot? The St. Louis Cardinals had a well rounded 1-5 rotation, but they didn't have anyone dominating like a Schilling, Pedro, or Johnson. Now do you see why I think we should get RJ?

Who do you think we will be able to sign, why, and at what price? The only guy I can think of is Russ Ortiz, and I don't think he can win 13-14 games with the Sox. I think RJ could win 20 games with us because with the exception of Detroit, he owns the AL Central. And I find the argument of "he's going to be playing in a hitter's park" weak because a.) he is a strikeout pitcher, and b.)our offensive plays at the same ballpark at the same time as the other team. Randy may not win games by a score of 3-1 at USCF, but I see him winning a lot of 7-4, 8-5 games. You say it'll take at least 90 wins to win the division, and I have given you 71-80, which means it would take 10-19 comeback wins, bullpen victories, or extra innings victories to win the division. Look up and tell which 5 man rotation had the most wins last year and if it was anywhere close to the 71-80 figure that I projected. And this talk about "it'll take a 5th starter with 8-12 wins to make it happen" makes no sense to me. Do we still need a fifth starter with 8-12 wins after we get RJ?

Leifer was released in the middle of the season; was picked up by the Devil Rays; was released by the Devil Rays; sign with Cleveland's AAA club; delayed a game because he got locked into a bathroom. Orlando Hernandez didn't throw a single pitch for the Expos, and ended back up pitching with the Yankees last season. God, the Expos got raped in that deal.

Once again: Here's the potential of two staffs: Johnson (20-22 Wins) Buehrle (18-20 Wins) Garcia (16-18 Wins) Contreras (12-15 Wins) Your momma/Grilli/Diaz (4-6 Wins)<-------They could probably get more in a full season, but I'll leave it at that. 70-81 wins Buehrle (18-20 Wins) Garcia (16-18 Wins) FA, no guarantee of signing anyone notable (unknown) Contreras (12-15 Wins) Garland (11-14 Wins) 57-67 So unless we sign a FA pitcher who'll win 13-14 games for the Sox in 2005, I really don't see why people should b**** about the 5th starter's spot if we get RJ. Do you actually think JR will go out an sign a pitcher who will win 13-14 games for us next year to a multiyear deal?

"Garland an All-star" That some funny s***. The only way Garland would be an all-star is because they have to pick the best player from that s***f*** of a team in Arizona, and I bet he would still have an ERA over 4.5. My plan is to get RJ for 2005 only. I love it how some of you draw the conclusion that Garland will be a better pitcher than Randy next year or 2 years beyond. What are you basing that on? Randy has FAR better numbers than Garland since 2000, and even in the year he was hurt (2003,) his numbers were better than what Garland has been put up in the rotation.

Well you didn't say why he would do "nothing." You also quote the first post in the thread. Johnson makes this team a serious threat in the playoffs.

Obviously, someone has not been reading the thread. :rolly