NUKE_CLEVELAND

Chat is open kiddies......lets get in there and say hi www.soxtalk.com/chat

PABLO!!!!!!!!!1 Now thats how you do it......and the good guys get the lead back.

BA = G-HEY Nuff said

QUOTE(Felix @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) No Pods today? *phew* And Uribe is out for 2 days in a row? Cintron must be getting some praise from Ozzie. Pods needs a break. He just seems out of it here in the early going. Maybe a day on the bench will clear his head.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 05:06 PM) meh, I never had any teachers worth the thought. ^^^ Going to school in the 80's and early 90's the teachers were mostly still old bags left over from the stone age.

So much for Comedy Central being about free speech at any cost. Once again, its ok to trash Christians but not ok to trash Muslims. :rolly Normally I would have been outraged by a depiction of Christ crapping on Bush and the Flag but in this light, where it exposes the execs at CC for the hypocrites that they are, I can deal.

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! GET TO DA CHOPPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You had best believe NUKE will be there.

Robin Ventura. With Black Jack McDowell as a close second.

QUOTE(rudylaw @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) As a great scholar once said RIP EM I luvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv getting my props.

RIP EM!!!!!! These blue birds are gonna get a taste of some good ol fashioned Chicago style home-cookin and when we're done serving up the pain they're gonna wish they never showed up!

QUOTE(The Critic @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 10:50 AM) You'd be better off trying to f*** the gullible out of her, it would take much longer. I dont think even Peter North could last that long.

QUOTE(bmags @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) was this post money or what, everyone? Come, everyone, praise me!

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 02:38 PM) Agreed, but such an efficient guest worker program does not exist, which is why they're coming in here illegally. The current legal avenue is an f-in' joke. That's up to the government to implement instead of shoving all of the blame onto these mostly harmless people. Well the government is making a pretty good effort to get something in place so these people can work out in the open instead of being forced to hide. Just a matter now of hammering out the details.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 04:19 PM) See, I knew we could be civil! As for what college I go to (if you're interested), I go to IU Bloomington. Here's the econ department's website: http://www.indiana.edu/~econweb I'm looking forward to having my mind blown apart by Georg von Fusternberg, a former chief for the IMF, for International Trade when I return from Germany in 07. lol I went to UIC for 2 years before I went into the Army, since then Ive been going through U of Phoenix to work on the rest when my schedule allows me to.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 09:11 AM) I'm a left-leaner, too. But I hate Colin Powell. As to these charges, I think it's obvious to anyone with a brain that Donald Rumsfeld half-assed the War Effort because he thought we could do it "on the cheap," spend less money, and use the "minimal" number of troops. In so doing, he assumed that somehow AMERICAN MIGHT alone would subdue such a large nation and occupy it. If there were justice in the world, Rumsfeld would be on his ass somewhere and not in the Pentagon anymore. ^^^ I'll bite on that one. I was involved in the initial invasion and occupation of Iraq and fact of the matter is that once we got done stomping on the Iraqi Army and occupied the major cities there was a prevaling question being asked among units on the ground. "What now?" Nobody knew what they were supposed to really be doing for a couple of months so units on the ground started doing what they could to stabilize their area without any real guidance from the top. What followed was a series of blunders, most serious of which was, IMO, the disbanding of the Iraqi Army. That organization could have been used to aid us in stabilizing things until the new government was in place and could take charge of them but we cast that tool aside and decided to do it ourselves. What followed was a year and a half of fits and starts trying to make a new Army and police force while the ones that were on the job before were now jobless, dissaffected and ready for payback, hence the insurgency.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) You do understand that capital, even in Mankiw's example is represented in unbelievably broad terms? There are many facets to capital accumulation and spending, and it's not limited to merely "real" goods. The problem with your interpretation of investment is that you're thinking strictly in a microeconomic sense. if I was arguing in strictly micro terms, I wouldn't even be arguing with you. But the matter of fact is that we're talking economy wide, in a macro sense. And while you say that I'm talking about personal savings, you misinterpreted me yet again. National savings, which was what I was quoting encompasses both private savings, savings from households, and public savings, the balance of the government. So to say that the savings rate has nothing to do with the interest rate, aggregate demand or GDP is flat out ignorant. Your quote from Mr. Mankiw talked about investment's relation to productivity not GDP. Fact is that businesses cap-ex spending is one of the very few things that affect worker productivity. If you want to talk about GDP then obviously national savings is a factor. QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) As for your next two links, look up the median values, never use averages. Come on, you should know better than that. The reason why you should avoid mode wages is because it doesn't take in to account the growing wealth disparity. If you're making 20 bucks, I'm making 10 bucks, and someone else is making 3 bucks, the mode is 11. Say that money is redistributed and you're making 30 bucks, me two and someone else one, you have the same mean. While this is obviously an extreme example, many labor thinktanks (most notably the EPI) have shown this is the case. I'll dig up a link tomorrow, it is 2:30 AM here. You bring up a good point about distribution within those averages but as you indicated you're going to have extremes on both ends ( the GM worker making 60 dollars an hour to press a button and the register jockey making $5.15 ) that skewer the average. Since the highest paying hourly jobs ( think the GM worker and his counterparts ) are the ones being outsourced, the mean will come down slightly. What ends up happening is that these folks take a job somewhere else making say 20 an hour, which is still above the national average. Additionally more jobs are being created in industries such as construction ( which pays pretty well especially for tradsemen ). So in summary what happens, in an expanding economy you get 2 jobs paying above the national average being filled for every one GM type job being lost. This is the best way I can explain how the mean falls while the average still rises. QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) I just took a gander over to CNN Money and did read that there is some projected GDP growth of 5%, but I'll have to check why my source was projecting a paltry 1.6%. I think that the estimates come out 4/28. TD Bank says 3%, but I wouldn't be surprised to see somewhere within the 3-4% range. I'd really surprised if it was 1-2% again. The Fed alone doesn't peg the interest rate, and neither does fiscal policy. The Fed can manipulate the interest rate much easier than fiscal policy, but they just can't keep it at an arbitrairily low rate. I've seen a good amount of reports that interest rates are going to have to be forced up in May because of fiscal policy. As for companies looking out for social welfare, look into what other countries write into their laws. I know for example that Germany's Bürgergesetzbuch states that while the main goal of a company is to maximize profit, it also has to account for other variables like environment, labor laws, etc. Remember that in the US, companies are actually considered people due to the 14th Amendment, which is a huge joke. As for the ad hominem, I would expect nothing else from you, NUKE. If you want to have an intelligent discussion, shoot, but otherwise, keep getting your information from TV (you know they won't lie, ever. Ever ever.). The fed, as you indicated, has the most control over interest rates. Fiscal policy does play a role in where interest rates go but all Greenspan and now Bernanke talk about in not only their speeches, but the Fed minutes as well, is inflationary pressures brought on by an expanding economy. That is the key driver of interest rates. BTW. Before you quip about me getting everything I know from CNBC, know that Im starting my last year of a Bachelors in Business Administration. So while I do glean a lot of info from people who have forgotten more about economics in 5 minutes then both of us put together would ever know, I do have a pretty good deal of formal training in this area.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 05:50 AM) As far as breaking the laws, it depends on how serious you take this law. Speeding, being drunk in public, (even at a bar), are examples of laws that get ignored every day. On a moral basis, if you are starving in your own country and can find work and feed your family, isn't there a hgher moral value for the individual? Illegal immigrants, if you set aside the fact they are breaking the law just by beig here, are far more likely to be victims of crimes, and not report them, than commit a crime. They live in fear of being discovered and deported. They are taken advantage of all the time by landlords, shop keepers, employers, etc. Look at what they risk to grab a small piece of the American dream. Too bad people born here can't grab that same spirit. I've never met an illegal that thought he was entitled to anyting. I have met some residents that have. Your argument that illegals are exploited plays right into my hands. If they were here legally and had documentation then they would have some legal recourse when they are the victim of a crime or taken advantage of by whoever is unscrupulous enough to do that. That's what a guest worker program would accomplish. Also I totally agree that that more Americans should display the motivation that they do. As a whole Americans are fat, lazy, stupid, and complacent. None of which are good traits to have. If immigrants want to come here and outhustle native born people and get ahead then thats fantastic but only as long as they show respect for our laws and go through proper channels. QUOTE(Texsox @ Apr 14, 2006 -> 05:50 AM) As far as outsourcing Nuke, since you are in an industry that hasn't seen outsourcing except to torture individuals, perhaps you can't understand the frustration involved when the factories move overseas. Once the US discovers we can hire soldiers from other countries, who are willing to die for the US for cheaper wages, then you will see outsourcing in a different light. Its like I told Cerb. The outsourcing situation is a question of having our cake and eating it too. If you want cheap goods then they have to be made with cheap labor or otherwise it is unprofitable for businesses to make them. If you want Americans to make certain goods then you have to pay them American wages and benefits. As a result the cost of finished goods would skyrocket and people would lose interest in the plight of the factory worker in a big hurry. Fact is that our economy is changing from a manufacturing based economy to a service and technology based economy. Those who are capable of adapting and changing with it will be successful and those who can't will fall behind. Its the nature of the beast and it's been that way since our inception. Bush and his advisors got trashed in the media when they said outsourcing could be a good thing but it takes someone with an understanding of how business works to see through the demagougary (sp) and make sense of the argument.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 09:45 PM) Oh really? Mind explaining the robust 1.8% growth rate we had for the fourth quarter of 2005? Or how we've had negative savings for the last 11 months? http://www.diamonds.net/news/newsitem.asp?num=14659 Now since you probably have no clue about this, savings is GDP - consumption - government spending which is the same as investment. So, S=I, simple enough, yes? So, as Americans save less, we invest less, and thus we retard our future economic growth. Now do you understand how we're pissing it away? Let's go further, and I'm ripping this right from N. Gregory Mankiw's textbook, the same person who was the chairman of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisors: "Thus, one way to raise future productivity is to invest more current resources in the production of capital." "Nonetheless, because capital accumulation affects productivity so clearly and directly, many economists interpret these date as showing that high investment leads to more rapid economic growth." Onto your second point that tax revenues have risen since the tax cuts have been implemented, it's a shame that government spending in a non-recessionary period has vastly overshadowed any revenue that the government has collected (I believe that military expenditures in Iraq weren't even calculated in the FY budget). This is DIRECTLY CORRELATED to my previous point. When countries spend mindlessly, it directly affects society's savings rate. To be more specific, it shifts supply back which raises interest rates (which the Fed can no longer suppress) and limits loanable funds. This is no clearer than the present economic situation, and why Rick Rubin preaches that budgets need to be balanced. Oddly enough, here's the forecast for the Q1 GDP: 1.64%. Pathetic. Care to explain how we're becoming more prosperous, though? Last time I checked, the industrial sector rarely hires illegal immigrants. The agricultural sector sure, but that's much more individual than the industrial sector. As for your quip about how I should know about profit maximization, well no s***. You have to balance profit maximization with actually providing social welfare, though. As the US outsources jobs, mostly manufacturing, workers lose jobs, and in too often the case, end up finding jobs in other sectors that take time to provide training and usually pay less. This is why the median wage of the US is falling, and as more households have less earnings, they can't consume or invest as much as they did before. But of course, you'd have to trade this off with the higher costs of certain domestic products, which is why there's no real consensus on whether outsourcing can positively or negatively affect the economy. I've got a small hunch that says it's negative, though (just look at NAFTA). Mr Economics major do you even know what the f*** you're reading?!?!?!?! Mr. Mankiw's spot on with his assessment but he's talking about capital investment in business not the individual and their savings rate. In fact the fact that the consumer is spending so much is a big reason why the economy is still growing while we wait for the next cycle of business capital investment to begin. LOL! Wanna laugh some more? If wages are falling as you suggest then why has personal income risen in all but 5 months since the summer of 2003? Its probably been on the rise for longer than that but I couldnt find the stats. http://www.bea.gov/briefrm/dpi.htm Or how about average hourly earnings? They've risen every month but a couple during Bush's presidency. http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutp...t_view=net_1mth But I thought household earnings were falling?! OOPS Try again Mr Economics major. As for GDP growth, consensus estimates for 1st quarter GDP Growth are between 4-5%. Once again those "pro business hacks" on CNBC. The 1.8% growth rate last quarter was pretty much dismissed as a blip. Secondly, rising interest rates dont have nearly as much to do with the federal spending as they do with the Fed's desire to rein in economic growth and prevent inflation. When you hear Ben Bernanke mention federal spending as a major reason why the fed funds rate goes up you let me know. I wont hold my breath. But you probably think he's little more than a "pro-business hack" anyhow. I also find it funny that you think businesses should be responsible for social welfare. As an economics major you of all people should know that companies are responsible to one group of people .......the shareholders..... outsourcing jobs not only drives their costs down but keeps the cost of finished goods in America low and by extension, inflation. You want American workers to make TV sets and the like and make 20 bucks an hour doing so then be prepared to pay 3-4 times more for your stuff then. You do that and you'll forget about the plight of the factory worker and start complaining about how much everything costs all of a sudden. I don't know where you are studying economics or how far along you are but you should probably study harder.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191596,00.html Another one bites the dust............and another one's gone.......and another one's gone........ Another one bites the dust!

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Apr 10, 2006 -> 11:46 AM) Thome (Through the 3rd inning of Today's game) Games: 7 AB: 20 Hits: 7 BB: 8 HR: 4 RBI: 7 AVG: .350 Big Hurt Games: 6 AB: 22 Hits: 2 BB: 3 HR: 1 RBI: 4 AVG: .091 Early Returns: i think we made the right choice. This is even before you take into account Frank's guaranteed stint(s) on the DL.

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 03:16 PM) Bad dad. This would not have happened if you did her homework for her.. I think it happened BECAUSE he did her homework for her.

My question is, when is Katie Holmes going to get sick of Cruise and this scientology nonsense and divorce his sorry ass?

QUOTE(Texsox @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) The coach angle is a wildcard in all this. By resigning, didn't it seem like he believed her as well? Over his players? Or now, what seems more plausible to me, is the University forced him out. Could have gone either way but the pressure would have mounted for him to leave anyway even if he had decided to stay on.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Apr 13, 2006 -> 03:48 PM) You know, even when this guy was having some poor innings in spring training, he consistently made good pitches throughout. Today, again, he made some very nice pitches, looked composed, and I heard Hawk say the gun at the stadium went off as high as 97mph. I highly doubt this guy is going to make or break the pen this year, but, at this rate, he'll be able to do all that is asked of him--eat some innings and get out some lefties. ^^^ I have to admit I wasn't that high on Thornton in ST but he seems to be pulling it together and thats a defenite plus for the pen.

Thanks to whichever mod cleaned up this thread and re-opened it. Shame to waste a good winner thread over some bickering.