NUKE_CLEVELAND

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:58 PM) Nuke in the 80s, we knew he was a genocidal dictator and still gave him the weapons by which he was slaughtering the Kurds. After that there are the illegal technology sales like companies such as Halliburton. And the reasons about the Army having money was linked to the fact that the Army would also use guerrilla tactics if they did not have the money for stealth bombers, cruise missiles, etc. There's no moral higher ground saying that dropping bombs from thousands of feet up is more noble than accessorizing with dynamite. No. We sold him weapons that were used to slaughter Iranians whom they were at war with the whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal. I made my point about how Saddam was getting his hardware in the face of sanctions and you said the US would do the same thing if they had that type of problem. Yes there is moral high ground for attacks made against military targets in wartime as opposed to using a civillian airliner packed with civillians to target and kill more civillians. There is no comparison between the two. PERIOD.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:45 PM) Nuke -- "Isolationism" worked from the inception of the country until we decided to get involved in empire during the Philippine wars. And there is nobody like Hitler around in the world so your point is moot because the "isolationist" doctrine is that war is wrong unless our national interests are at stake. Foreign interventions for the sake of a foreign intervention are not in our interest. To have a state of endless war only means more government, more taxation and more authoritarianism [all of things I *thought* Republicans were against] "There are a good many Americans who talk about an American century in which America will dominate the world. . . . If we confine our activities to the field of moral leadership we shall be successful if our philosophy is sound and appeals to the people of the world. The trouble with those who advocate this policy is that they really do not confine themselves to moral leadership. They are inspired by the same kind of New Deal planned-control ideas abroad as recent Administrations have desired to enforce at home. In their hearts they want to force on these foreign people through the use of American money and even, perhaps, arms, the policies which moral leadership is able to advance only through the sound strength of its principles." -- Senator Taft As for Dresden -- In fact, little had been done to provide the ancient city of artists and craftsmen with anti-aircraft defenses. One squadron of planes had been stationed in Dresden for awhile, but the Luftwaffe decided to move the aircraft to another area where they would be of use. A gentlemen's agreement seemed to prevail, designating Dresden an "open city." Historians unanimously agree that Dresden had no military value. What industry it did have produced only cigarettes and china. Cigarette factories...oh s***! And by punishments for My Lai -- do you mean how the leader was acquited? Just saying. This book.......reviewed and lauded by everyone who is anyone in book review begs to differ. http://www.harpercollins.com/global_script...isbn=0060006765 If they failed to defend a city of that much importance then that's their own blunder. Lt. Cally..........acquited? More like he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison even though he only ended up serving a few years of his sentence. Again........how is this relevant to this professor asshole calling victims of terrorist attacks "NAZI'S".

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:41 PM) Nuke -- companies that develop weapons like cluster bombs were investors there. We both know the "collateral damage" that cluster bombs do. Nuke, if the US Army didn't have as much money, they'd be resorting to similar tactics to get things accomplished. With the Pentagon logic, these victims of 9/11 were collateral damage. Yeah and Nuke for #2, don't forget about the illegal items sold to him from US corporations from the 80s til now that haven't been discussed much. Your argument gets weaker and weaker by the post. How exactly were they investors at places like Cantor Fitzgerald? Was it some machinists 401K plan? You're making quite a stretch here aren't you? You say the only reason that the Army doesn't deprive U.S. citizens of food and medicine is because it has plenty of money in its budget? LISTEN TO YOURSELF! BTW Pre-Persian Gulf war there were no sanctions on Iraq. So explain to me how US companies selling him weapons was illegal and at the same time explain to me how that is relevant to the these 500,000 children that Hussein killed with his gross neglect.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:04 PM) I wonder what the meeting had to be like when they greenlit this idea. They're sitting around: "Damnit! We cannot find any American soldiers. We need something and fast." "I know!" "What?" "We shall get American doll and use it as kidnapped soldier. American won't be able to tell difference between real soldier and hard yet bendable plastic skin!" "Brilliant!" I mean, they went to the extent of markering the doll's eye to make it look like he had a bruise so they had to think it was going to fool people. I bet the bunch who cooked up this idea is feeling pretty silly about themselves now.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:26 PM) You say isolationist like it is a bad thing. Show me where in the Constitution that it is the President's duty to expand the US sphere of influence in European affairs + to be entangled in foreign wars where our interests are not at stake. And Nuke -- My Lai, the Abu Ghraib scandals...there are plenty of incidents where the US has targeted civilians -- going back to WW II, the firebombing of Dresden was targeting of non-military targets and the US was fine with it. And even up to the 1970s (where the record currently goes dry) there were previously classified tests where the Army and CIA DELIBERATELY TARGETED CIVILIANS with toxins, diseases and chemical weapons (i.e. Operation Big City) So please, the US has gassed its own citizens so stop with the feigned righteousness when the US has no higher ground on which to b**** upon. Remember the last time we tried being Isolationist? It was the 20's & 30's In the 20's Isolationism led to massive tarriffs that were a big factor behind the great depression. In the 30's we stood around and did nothing while Hitler built his war machine and started taking over his neighbors. Do people like you and Buchannan not learn from history or do you choose to ignore its lessons? Non military targets in Dresden? I do seem to remember there was a significant amount of military industry in that town. Nice try. The 3 events you mentioned were regrettable incidents that ran contrary to our laws and morals and those responsible were punished. Fine with it? I think not. Again.. Nice try. I'd leave it up to you to defend some asshole who calls victims of a terrorist attack "NAZIS".

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:12 PM) Nice cherry picking...but I'll bite. He said that it took a lot of balls for them to kill themselves while doing such an action -- just like any military activity that has gone down. Acknowledging the courage of a military activity does not mean you advocate it. I acknowledge the balls and bravery of soldiers being sent to Afghanistan and Iraq. It does not mean that I approve of the violence being used there or believe in the war. You're bogged down in his semantics while refusing to see his wider point that if the US goes around and bombs the f*** out of people then they really don't get to claim ignorance and innocent because the government is acting in our name. And Nuke, if he's right about the technocrats being supporters of the military destruction throughout the world then his claims are correct -- The other victims: "According to Pentagon logic, were simply part of the collateral damage. Ugly? Yes. Hurtful? Yes. And that's my point. It's no less ugly, painful or dehumanizing a description when applied to Iraqis, Palestinians, or anyone else. If we ourselves do not want to be treated in this fashion, we must refuse to allow others to be similarly devalued and dehumanized in our name." Also: "What I said was that the "technocrats of empire" working in the World Trade Center were the equivalent of "little Eichmanns." Adolf Eichmann was not charged with direct killing but with ensuring the smooth running of the infrastructure that enabled the Nazi genocide. Similarly, German industrialists were legitimately targeted by the Allies." And the comment by Albright was after it was abundantly clear the sanctions were not working and there was no purpose for the sanctions to be in place. Under the ICC she could have been tried for intent to commit genocide. Yeah, it takes a lot of balls to take a plane load of civillians at knife point hostage then crash them into another bunch of civillians who are sitting at their desks doing their jobs. A whole lot more than it takes for a fighter pilot to bomb a radar station or a bunch of tanks or a defense building with people shooting guns and SAM's at him. His ( and your ) argument is rediculous. BTW. How were these people "running the infrastructure of genocide"? Was it the bond trading? Was it the overseas shipping? Was it the guy serving appetizers to the people who happened to be eating dinner in the restaurant on the top floor? By your logic there are no innocent people in this country because we all pay taxes right? I guess that means we're all supporting the evil U.S. war machine. I guess that makes you a "little Eichmann" in this loony's eyes then. BTW No. 2. Obviously sanctions wouldn't work on Saddam since he basically said to hell with the citizens, I don't have enough palaces, there isin't enough gold in my existing palaces, I have to buy military hardware illegally from France and Russia......etc. etc...etc... Semantics nothing. He has no point.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 04:57 PM) His response: http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/educatio...3512084,00.html And Nuke, in the same vein of Bill Maher's comments saying that the 9-11 hijackers were indeed not cowardly...Why is blowing something up from an airplane with a bomb so much more "noble" than flying a plane into a building? Both achieve the same results -- one just has more money than the other. War is the terrorism of the rich and terrorism is the war of the poor. -- Pat Buchanan Bill Maher should stick to telling jokes and forget about insightful commentary. They were cowards because they deliberately targeted civillians, that's something the US does not do despite your belief to the contrary. Pat Buchannan is a moron and an isolationist. Of course he'd be against the wars we're fighting now.

I guess in addition to being an anti-american piece of s*** he's a liar as well Didn't favor the 9-11 attacks? -Doesn't advocate violence? See above. Victims are the perps and perps are the victims. Typical leftist trash. -500,000 Iraqi Children died as a result of sanctions? More like 500,000 Iraqi children died because Saddam Hussein used his oil for food money on golden palaces, military hardware and bribes to Kofi Annan and company to keep quiet about it all. -Comparing "technocrats" working in the WTC to Eichmann is not the same as comparing them to Nazi's? PUHLEEZE! Nice try but your little backtrack isin't cutting it with me. I'm sorry but there is no defense for what this guy said. f*** him.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 06:23 PM) Moss dominated them and they can't handle it. What a bunch of jackoffs. The funniest part of that game was hearing the TV announcers talking about how hurt Moss was and that he could easily be covered by one guy. Not 4 plays later he burns the Pack deep for a TD. Priceless!

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 02:00 PM) Can't argue with the Twins as the favs. Until we knock them off, there is no reason to think otherwise. The Indians on the other hand... I agree with ya on that one. This isin't the first time the Sox have had a better team on paper than Minny in the last few years and we know the results from before.

I'm used to Windows and it works for my computing needs so it gets my vote.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...s/american_girl I dont know what they're whining about. Pilsen is defenitely NOT a safe area. I guess pointing out the obvious doesn't sit well with some people.

Al Jazerra is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Islamic terrorists across the middle east.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) Nuke, its like the agent provacateurs of the Vietnam era. But the illegalities and authoritarianism of COINTELPRO are another discussion... The part that struck me was: Are we coming to a thought police of just acceptable speech? Maybe some people need it. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/31/professor.resigns.ap/

Nobody ever said the "pundits" were that smart. Idiots.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) This is from the print edition of the journal "Counterpunch" which can be found at www.counterpunch.org : Alexander Cockburn (COUNTERPUNCH, 1-26-05) The CIA's New Spies on Campus After disclosure of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's effort to set a new and spectacularly unaccountable version of the CIA in the Pentagon, the sprouting forest of secret intelligence operations set up in the wake of 9/11 is at last coming under some scrutiny. Here's sinister one in the academic field that one that that had escaped scrutiny until this week. Dr David Price, of St Martins College, in Olympia, Washington is an anthropologist long interested in the intersections of his discipline with the world of intelligence and national security, both the CIA and the FBI. CounterPunchers know Price's work well. Now he's turned the spotlight on a new test program, operating without detection or protest, that is secretly placing CIA agents in American university classrooms. With time these students who cannot admit to their true intentions will inevitably pollute and discredit the universities in which they are now enrolled. Subscribers to our CounterPunch newsletter are now receiving the edition with Price's full investigation. Herewith a brief resume of his expose. Even before 9/11 government money was being sluiced into the academies for covert subsidies for students. The National Security Education Program (NSEP) siphoned off students from traditional foreign language funding programs and offered graduate students good money, sometimes $40,000 a year and up, to study "in demand" languages, but with pay-back stipulations mandating that recipients later work for unspecified U.S. national security agencies. When the NSEP got off the ground in the early 1990s there was some huff and puff from concerned academics about this breaching of the supposed barrier between the desires of academia and the state. But there wasn't even a watch-pup's yap about Congressional approval for section 318 of the 2004 Intelligence Authorization Act which appropriated four million dollars to fund a pilot program known as the Pat Roberts Intelligence Scholars Program (PRISP), named after Senator Pat Roberts (R. Kansas, Chair, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence). PRISP is designed to train intelligence operatives and analysts in American university classrooms for careers in the CIA and other agencies. The program now operates on an undisclosed number of American college and university campuses. Dr Price has discovered that if the pilot phase of the program proves to be a useful means of recruiting and training members of the intelligence community then the program will expand to more campuses across the country. PRISP participants must be American citizens who are enrolled fulltime in graduate degree programs. They need to "complete at least one summer internship at CIA or other agencies", and they must pass the same background investigations as other CIA employees. PRISP students receive financial stipends ranging up to $25,000 per year and they are required to participate in closed meetings with other PRISP scholars and individuals from their administering intelligence agency. >From his enquiries Dr Price has determined that less than 150 students a year are currently authorized to receive funding during the pilot phase as PRISP evaluates the program's initial outcomes. PRISP is apparently administered not just by the CIA, but also through a variety of individual intelligence agencies like the NSA, MID, or Naval Intelligence. Secrecy is the root problem here, with the usual ill-based assumption that good intelligence operates best in clandestine conditions. Of course America needs good intelligence, but the most useful and important intelligence can largely be gathered openly without the sort of covert invasion of our campuses that PRISP silently brings. Anyone doubting the superior merits of open intelligence has only to study the sorry saga of the non-existent WMDs whose imagined threat in vast stockpiles was ringingly affirmed by all the secret agencies, while being contested by analysts unencumbered by bogus covert intelligence estimates massaged by Iraqi disinformers and political placemen in Langley and elsewhere. Dr Price says, "The CIA makes sure we won't know which classrooms PRSIP scholars attend, this being rationalized as a requirement for protecting the identities of intelligence personnel." But this secrecy shapes PRISP as it takes on the form of a covert operation in which PRISP students study chemistry, biology, sociology, psychology, anthropology and foreign languages without their fellow classmates, professors, advisors, department chairs or presumably even research subjects (knowing that they are working for the CIA, DIA, NSA or other intelligence agencies. "In a decade and a half of Freedom of Information Act research," Dr Price continues, " I have read too many FBI reports of students detailing the 'deviant' political views of their professors." In one instance elicited by Dr Price from files he acquired under FOIA, the FBI arranged for a graduate student to guide topics of 'informal' conversation with anthropologist Gene Weltfish that were later the focus of an inquiry by Joseph McCarthy). Today, Dr Price maintains, "These PRSIP students are also secretly compiling dossiers on their professors and fellow students." The confluence between academe and intelligence is long standing and pervasive. In 1988 CIA spokeswoman Sharon Foster bragged that the CIA then secretly employed enough university professors "to staff a large university". Most experts estimate that this presence has grown since 2001. But If the CIA can use PRISP to corral students, haul along to mandatory internships and summer sessions, douse them in the ethos of CIA, then it can surely shape their intellectual outlook even before their grasp of cultural history develops in the relatively open environment of their university. Academic environments thrive on open disagreement, dissent, and reformulation. As Dr Price writes," The presence of PRISP's secret sharers brings hidden agendas that sabotage fundamental academic processes. The Pat Roberts Intelligence Scholars Program infects all academia with the viruses dishonesty and distrust as participant scholars cloak their intentions and their ties to the cloaked masters they serve." So what's the big deal? If a college student wants to make a career in the intelligence field and the CIA is willing to grease the skids with cash then I think its a good deal. I think students who want to work for the CIA are sharp enough to know what they're getting themselves in for.

How long before Barbie gets beheaded on Al Jazerra?

This is worse than I thought at first. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/31/professor.resigns.ap/ "Gallant sacrifices" made by "combat teams" ( referring to 9-11 hijackers ). Whooo boy someone needs to get fired and quickly.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 01:31 PM) It's not going to happen. Break the union already and start calling the AHL the NHL. That's all. That's just great. Hand Gary Buttman and Bill Wirtz another hockey leauge to run into the ground.

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 12:02 AM) I don't even understand what he is saying? In what way are Victims of the World Trade Center similar to the Nazis? This is how. ( cut from the article ) I dont know how you could have missed that.

His speech at that school in NY has been canceled amid death threats. Additionally this guy was just on TV likening criticism of his views as terrorism. Talk about a warped mind.

pwn3d! LOL!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_...5p-236111c.html This man is an absolute disgrace to higher education. He's a nutcase who has absolutely no place teaching anything to anybody's kid and the fact a public university has this assclown on its tenured payroll makes me sick. This is hate speech, cut and dried, and that this man still has a job is more proof that hate speech is ok........just so long as it's the right kind.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) Can you imagine the s***storm if Sosa somehow fails his physical? MAN, that would be entertaining... Someone slip him some sneezing powder.

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 12:43 AM) Does this thread need to be titled Films #2? Someone oughta merge this with the other films thread. Shaun of the Dead is defenitely next on the watch list BTW.