NUKE_CLEVELAND

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 5, 2006 -> 10:38 AM) That's true to a certain extent. For example, if Lieberman doesn't get on the ticket, a Republican will take his seat in CT. However, something tells me that Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy aren't going anywhere. But, overall, I agree that they won't win nearly as many seats if they put far-left candidates on the ballots. I'm still dumbfounded as to why the Dems are moving in this direction. The Republicans in a vulnerable position right now, but the strategy of putting nuts like Dean and Pelosi in high-ranking and high-visibility positions is not going to help them take advantage of that. As the king of the right wing around here this couldn't please me more. All our party needs is a few good wacko's to campaign against and congressional dominance is ours for another 2 years.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jul 5, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) You don't want the socialist candidate, trust me. He will become GREAT PALS with Hugo Chavez and Fidel... just what we need. Oh, I totally agree. As if Mexico wasn't already a corrupt, Narco state, a leftist candidate gaining power would be a catastrophe.

Scrubbies about to get the sweepage laid down on them by Houston. Lost 2 in a row to them and face Oswalt tonight. I guess they aren't going to get any momentum from that game they barely won against the Sox. HAHA

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 5, 2006 -> 10:28 AM) I'd rather see his successor elected than his socialist opponent. Its clearly a battle to see who is the tallest midget down there. I don't think either of them is worth the paper the vote tally is printed on.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 4, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) The Dems need widely-respected moderates like Lieberman if they want to win back Congress or the White House. If the more liberal wing of their party is going to throw a fit because Joe would rather run as an independent than pander to them via Murtha-esque anti-Iraq temper tantrums, it's their loss. If the liberal wing of the party succeeds in seizing control of their affairs and platform then they are toast come November. Their only shot to capture either house of Congress is to present themselves as a centrist outfit. The Howard Dean wing of the party will lose them seats.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 5, 2006 -> 10:17 AM) Which, again, is no shocker. This is Mexico we're talking about. The military protects the drug cartels. American tourists are regularly kidnapped for ransom by thugs or pulled over and robbed by the police. It's a sad state of affairs down there. :headshake To say nothing of the fact that you have Vicente Fox down there who seems to think that exporting poverty to the United States is the answer to at least some of their problems. I somehow doubt his successor will be a whole lot better regardless of who gets in.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Jul 3, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) This was funny and I read nsbb every once in a blue moon. Quit ridiculing the guy. Every time the Scrubs blow a lead late and lose I check out their game thread for a few chuckles so I guess I read it quite frequently these days.

QUOTE(AssHatSoxFan @ Jul 3, 2006 -> 12:32 PM) he is on vacation Vacation should be in quotes. I dont think there's any way he'd be allowed to take time off during a period that includes the NBA Draft, World Cup and crosstown series. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think there's something more going on than him being on vacation.

Pitching and defense win championships. We proved that ourselves last season. That being said I think the staff will tighten things up in the second half cause these guys are too good to have a bad stretch much longer than they already have.

QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Jul 3, 2006 -> 10:53 AM) this thread is going to be some great comedy in about three months 3 months hell...........this thread is great comedy TODAY.

I see a lot on the site here that people think the pen is very shaky but why is that? I wasn't referring to this poll but a lot of posts in other threads talk about it. Im going to leave out Politte because he'll be leaving soon I think. Jenks = MONEY, nuff said Cotts = Unlike his Politte he still has his 2005 form and his highly effective Riske = Great pickup. So far he's been very effective. BMAC = Should be starting IMHO but he's done well as the long reliever Thornton = Huge positive surprise. Has an almost Jenks-ish fastball, great off speed stuff and has been untouchable lately

Im not ready to push the panic putton yet but lately the starters have been garbage. Stinking, rotten, slimy, dirty garbage and Im not just saying this because MB got lit up yesterday either. Right now none of them are particularly effective.

Justify your answer.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 2, 2006 -> 04:18 PM) I'd take Montero without a seconds thought over Cliff. Agreed. If Cliffy cant grab his balls and step up then its time he stepped aside and let someone else in. Our pitching has already been, for the most part, total garbage lately and we don't need him here making it worse.

WSJ >>> NYT Ownage to the Nth degree there.

QUOTE(minors @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:52 PM) What the hell do you know about me? Not a f***ing thing I had to start working at 14 earning everything got. Yes I have SEEN people who have got themselves arrested to get the better conditions of jail. So don't f***ing tell me about my life. By the way how old are you because that was an incredibly naive comment from someone who must not have been out in the real world yet. Dont you just love it when people make comments like that without knowing a damn thing about the person.

Once again..............for the 1987823423412341th time. Some are for it and some are against it. That's what Ive been saying all along and will continue to keep saying. I never recall saying that torture is universally applied or approved of in the military and intelligence communities.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:46 PM) This is the type of thinking that can only come from someone who has been pampered their entire lives or much of it. Wrong. Actually its been my experience that the spoiled, sheltered etc........etc........ are so naive that they believe criminals aren't all bad and deserve a break.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:32 PM) The DOJ is really independent, not to mention the corporation that was created by the US Air Force. And I'd love to see raw numbers instead of percentages because...since 1976 only Twelve white defendants have been put to death for killing a black victim comapred to 213 black defendants put to death for killing white victims. But if we're going to run with DOJ stats: According to DOJ figures, nearly 80 percent of inmates on federal death row are Black, Hispanic or from another minority group. Minorities account for 74 percent of the cases in which federal prosecutors seek the death penalty. The Department of Justice is not a reliable source but any of a number of your looney leftist websites that you are constantly referencing are huh? LOL! Did you ever stop and think that minorities commit crimes out of all proportion with their representation in the population? You may as well go ahead and say that the whole justice system is racist because so many black people have been in some phase of the correctional system.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) Nuke, check out KUBARK (1963). CIA psychological torture manual. The basic precepts they developed for effective psychological torture were: 1. sensory deprivation (hooding, sleep dep, sleep deprival, 24 hr. a day lights etc.) 2. self inflicted pain (stress positions) These were later refined in the 1980s when the new (declassified) torture manual came out discussing the finer points of both physical and psychological torture. Sounds like some interesting reading. I wish my clearance was one level higher. QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) So spare me that it isn't "brutal". It is psychological torture pure and simple. And Nuke, regarding "saving people via torture" -- that's the thing THE FBI SAID THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE IS NOT EFFECTIVE AT GETTING TRUTHFUL INFORMATION. The torture of suspects did not lead to any useful intelligence information being extracted. - James Corum, professor at the Army Command and General Staff College That's their opinion. Im willing to bet there there quite a few people in the SF and CIA community who would beg to differ. QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) And what about the legendary Marine interrogation tactics of Major Sherwood F. Moran during WW II? He used empathy to establish intellectual and spiritual rapport with Japanese prisoners. Rejecting the idea that the enemy was a group of fanatics who required tough tactics, Moran, who was fluent in Japanese, approached each prisoner talking as a human being to a human being. His manual of these methods persuaded the Navy and Marines to train their interrogators in Japanese language and culture, producing grads who were among the most effective interrogators in the Pacific campaign of 1944 and 1945, supplying complete Japanese order of battle intel on Saipan and Tinian within forty eight hours of landing. So the proof is in the pudding that non-violent techniques without psychological or physical torture do elicit more accurate information than their more nefarious counterparts. I'd love to know how Nuke thinks we'd get accurate information from victims of psychological or physical torture. Cuz I sure know I'd trust a paranoid, incoherent speaking, disoriented, delusional person. Do you honestly think that any interrogator whether you classify him as abusive or not just walks into a room and starts going to work on a guys fingernails with a pair of pliers? COME ON. Even you in your self-righteous splendor don't believe that. Torture is a last resort which is used when the person with information just will not give it up. QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) From Physicians for Human Rights: Health Consequences of Psychological Torture The PHR report reviews extensive clinical experience and studies that have revealed the destructive health consequences of psychological torture such as memory impairment, severe depression with vegetative symptoms, somatic complaints of headache and back pain, nightmares, feeling of shame and humiliation, and reduced capacity to concentrate. One of the PHR's sources familiar with Guantánamo said that detainees there suffer from incoherent speech, disorientation, delusions, and paranoia. Prolonged Isolation Studies have demonstrated that short-term isolation caused an inability to think or concentrate, anxiety, temporal and spatial disorientation, hallucinations and loss of motor skills. The ICRC, government reports and documentation of individual detainees, who have been subjected to long-term isolation, all substantiate the severe health effects of solitary confinement. Sleep Deprivation Total sleep deprivation can cause impairments in memory, learning and logical reasoning. Sleep restriction can also result in hypertension and cardiovascular disease. Two detainees held in Afghanistan said that several weeks of sleep deprivation left them terrified and disoriented. Sexual Humiliation Victims of sexual torture forever carry a stigma and will often be ostracized by the community. Sexual humiliation often leads to symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), major depression and multiple physical complaints such as headaches, eating disorders and digestive problems. Suicides may also occur unless a strong religious conviction forbids otherwise. And..............I.........COULDNT CARE LESS.

QUOTE(minors @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:21 PM) Watch it nuke say something they don't like and they try and get you banned They all love me here. They're just afraid to show it.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:15 PM) Again, the press reporting classified counter-terrorism information gives other nations the impression that our government is incapable of working covertly. This will damage our ability to collaborate with them. Points like that shouldn't need to be voiced but I guess they have to be around here.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 11:59 AM) Nuke, it's not even relevant to the debate. The candy to...argument is an over-simplifaction and a very poorly created false dichotomy (i.e. "We must kill inmates!" or "We want to give them candy and cake and let them go.") when there are more options that you either fail to mention or fail to see. I'd hardly consider 22-23 hours a day in a cell to be "candy". Capital punishment should be questioned by any sane and rational person given the arbitrary nature of its use, the racial and class discrimination so very evident in the use of it, the alternatives to the death penalty (i.e. life without parole when they have room to house people -- by getting rid of mandatory minimums for simple possession non-violent offenders), the chances that innocent people can and have been executed, the numerous exonerations from death row that have occurred and by people who believe in the fundamental dignity of all human life. Yawn. :rolly We've been over this ground many many times haven't we? I want the death penalty imposed in a uniform manner for a series of the worst crimes. That addresses all your concerns regarding race, class, etc.....etc... I also agree that those busted for posession can be dealt with ( at least the 1st time ) with a huge fine and some probation. Your bit about the fundamental dignity of all human life is laughable. Career criminals are not human beings in my view......they are scum. People who sell poison to children are not people.........they are scum. That also applies to rapists, child molestors and murderers. Scum like that needs to be cleansed and you dont do it by stockpiling it in a warehouse.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) I don't know if that is what the decision does. Yes, the decision upholds the Constitutional separation of powers, and in so doing it points out tthat the President has no legislative authority to create the military tribunals as in existence at Guantanamo. That is my interpretation from Justic Bayer's opinion, which acknowledges that the Executive can seek authority from Congress to create such tribunals. I interpret this as saying that the now established right to the military justice protections of Geneva and the Presidential lack of legislative authority together mean that the military commissions cannot stand as legitimate. I don't see that the detainees are being granted rights under the Constitution. Im no supreme court justice but Geneva establishes a lot of parameters for falling under its protection and terrorist groups do not qualify. Not a huge deal really. At the end of the day all this ruling is saying is that we can't create tribunals for these people without legislatiion to back it up. Look for Bush and the Congress to fast track legislation to deal with this issue here soon.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 11:50 AM) Nuke, I wasn't the one who said Iraq was a tactical pivot. ADefense Policy Board briefing with Laurent Murawiec did – the one where, in a Power Point presentation to Perle and the assembled worthies, Murawiec declaimed: * "Iraq is the tactical pivot * Saudi Arabia the strategic pivot * Egypt the prize. Yes Nuke, it's just crying Just the fact that shipping people off to countries where it is legal to torture is illegal. Just the fact that the FBI interrogators are incredibly pissed at the torture/interrogation tactics being used. They see it as not giving any benefits and see it as a detriment to actual security. (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/helenthomas/4023757/detail.html) By the way, take a gander at what that bleeding heart terrorist loving FBI agent discusses what interrogators did to people while detained. Just the fact that the Supreme Court ruled today that US detainees have the rights of the Geneva Conventions. From FBI bureau agent Dan Coleman: "Brutalization doesn't work. We know that. Besides, you lose your soul." But outside of that and more, you're right. It's just crying What you're implying is that we are playing a game of Risk with the Middle East and I think that's highly dubious at best. I guess I better pack my stuff and start reading all i can about Saudi Arabia and Egypt. LOL! Sigh. Sooooo. Some FBI agents dont like "brutalizing" terror suspects. Again........ . Again. Sleep deprivation, playing loud music, siccing the dogs on em to make em wet their pants, and leaving the lights on all night is only brutal in your world. And you know what? If terrorists get a beat down laid down on them while they're in Gitmo I really dont care. Goes back to my earlier statement where if all the "torture" whether actual or imagined only saves the life of one innocent person then it's all worth it. I have no love lost for these people at all. My favorite part was "you lose your soul" HAH! That was great.