southsideirish

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters there you go

DId the A's get for him? anything? I remember him going to the A's and not doing much for them. I also remember them putting him at DH and maybe CF too because they didn't like his defense at 2B

I agree. What did we get for him anyway?

no I wouldnt have paid ray 6 or 8 but I wouldnt have paid konerko 8 either. That was a ridiculous move in my opnion. You have a point by stating we had nothing behind him to back him up. I did think that is what Willie was acquired for at the time. I know they thought highly of him when they acquired him from Baltimore for Singleton.

Ok I remember a different player. I remember a player that could stall an offense when he was in a cold streak, which was often. He was a very streaky hitter. His defense was definately not what I would call adequate. I loved watching him play when he was on. He would make some magnificent plays sometimes, but not consistently. He always hustled. I just wouldn't break the bank for the guy.

Yes you do if the guy is good defensively. Ray was never known for his defense, except for going back on pop ups.

I guess you can basically do this with any fan base. I have a friend who is a white sox fan that is exactly the same way. My brother is a cub fan and is very knowledgable about his team and the game. I doubt I have seen or talked to enough Yankee fans to come to a conclusion about an entire or even the majority of the fan base, but the ones I have talked to seem to know what they are talking about. Both about their team, other teams, and the game. They do seem to get more casual fans than other teams as do the cubs. That may dilute each fan base in respect to the knowledge that they have.

We are there, 28.3

JReed, we are in agreeance yet again.

Hmm, how you like them apples. Where did you get that info?

He was one of my favorite players since he was a raider and a royal. What a phenomenal athlete. He really is a man of many talents. I read an article on him in SI jsut last year. If I can recall the article correctly, he owns his own catering business with a friend of his. The man is actually a good cook. He also has charities he and his wife are involved heavily in. He is an awesome person!

Ok, and in what way does it emasculate you?

How has Vazquez faired against the American League in their park with the DH in recent years? Brown was on the DL 7 times while with the Dodgers in the last 3-4 years and hasn't pitched in the American League for 8 years now. Leiber is coming off of reconstructive elbow surgery and didn't start pitching until late last year. He has never pitched in the American League. Contreras is looking good but he is an unknown quantity. Gordon has not put together 2 good back to back years, as far as I can see ,ever. Unless you consider 97 and 98 good years back to back. Kind of hard to tell there. There are a lot of question marks with this team and their rotation. It is hardly a given as to what that staff is going to be. It can be great but it can be as equally bad. I see your opinion is that it will be a better staff than the previous year. My opinion is opposite. I don't see many pitchers other than the great ones (Pedro, RJ) making that change from The National to the American very easily. There are exeptions, such as Moyer (although he may have just been a late bloomer as he was rocked while with Texas, Baltimore, and Boston), that I am sure you can point to. I am sure you are going to point to some stats of Vazquez's and Brown's, but that was from another league. It is just my opinion that the staff has many questions and it is far from given that this staff will be one of the better in the league. Just my opinion Brando with no offense to yours. You make a good case as well as it could be a great staff. Yes they did win 100 games last year. Yes they did have an inferior offense, even though they were 4th in all of baseball in runs scored. By the way Brando how would you rate an offense? By runs scored? However, with the way the schedule is set they will have to play against teams in their own division a lot. Boston, Toronto, Baltimore, and even TB are not push overs. The east is the best division in the American league. It will not be easy for the Yanks. I can see a situation where the Red Sox can beat out the Yanks and the wildcard comes from the west. I don't even think it is a given that the Yanks make the playoffs. That is with a 190+ milion dollar payroll even.

You mean because he had such a great glove and a consistent bat? Oh, if Willie can just be half the player that Ray is today, I'll tell ya! If this was really that easy and they are in such a need for a 2nd baseman then why aren't the cubs on the phone with them right now. Todd Walker and Mark Grudz are both there. I am sure if they are so hot for a 2nd baseman then the cubs would have no problem dealing one of them over there. What were Walkers numbers last year compared to Ray's?

Ok, I understand waht you are saying now. That seems fair.

Well then if we go the other way and look at the BA of the Cardinals last year as the best offensive team in baseball then that is even better. They didn't even make the playoffs. Sounds good to me. The best offense in baseball for 2004 not even making the playoffs? According to some around here that would be the Yanks. Since they just acquired ARod to give them the best offense in baseball. I would be for that. However, I do remember most talking about the 2 best offenses in baseball last year. It was always the Braves and the Red Sox as being the best. Both were the leader in runs scored in their respective leagues. I think runs scored is what the majority of people go by when comparing offenses. People who go by batting average to compare offenses would be in the minority. Just a guess. Why don't we take a poll?

I didn't really know what this person was implying. Yank fans are pretty knowledgable and they are definately real baseball fans.

The being enforced in 5 years seems right. Having exceptions does not.

Good then since the best offense in baseball in 2000 finished that way we have hope for the 2004 best offense in baseball to finish the same way. I hardly call scoring 978 runs in a season all luck.

Then how does this work in the NBA or NFL? Don't they have both a max and a min?

exactly. agreed.

Yes the 2000 sox had the best offense in baseball with 978 runs scored. It is the team that scores the most runs, because runs go up on the scoreboard. Sacrifice bunts, walks, HBP (taking one for the team), hustling for the extra base, stealing bases...none of these count against your BA, but none of them improve it either. It's all about getting home.

And I thanked you for that Brando. The problem with that is you are comparing apples to oranges. I never said that a single player was old when he hits 32. However, a TEAM with the average age of 32 is considered old by any standard. Not just mine.

I don't know where you got that idea from Fan I guess it depends on what you are looking at in an offense. If you are going purely by runs scored then last year it looked like this. Boston 961 Atlanta 907 Toronto 894 Yankees 877 St Louis 876 Colorado 853 Minnesota doesn't come in for a while with 801 total runs scored. You were right the first time when you said they were pretty damn close if not the best before the ARod trade. They had the fourth best offense and added Sheff and Lofton. They also would have had Aaron Boone for the entire season if he would have stayed healthy. I don't think this deal greatly improved their offense if at all if Boone would have stayed healthy. Boone and Soriano over ARod and Cairo/Wilson? I think so.