Chisoxfn

QUOTE (TCQ @ Jun 3, 2008 -> 06:30 AM) What did you guys think about the Tribune talking about maybe bringing Eldred up, mediocre average but the powers there. He won't be any different than Jim Thome. Sure he'd cost a bit less, but long-term, I'm sure Thome would do far far better this season.

I would like to point out that I believe that Konerko is best suited as a #5 hitter (and he's a damn good one when healthy). He did a good, commendable job in the middle of the Sox offense for a number of years, but the reality is he's not in the league of top run producers. He's also clearly a main culprit (including Thome/Swisher) for the Sox horrid offense and you have to put the blame squarely on those guys shoulders (as they are all being paid to producer, where as a guy like Uribe is being paid to field for the most part). Konerko at least has a legitimate excuse (hand injury) and right now I think the Sox should consider DL'ing him or basically letting Thome/Swisher/Konerko have two spots in the lineup most nights (with Anderson getting a steady dose in CF, although there will obviously be the ocassional night where all three of the guys play). Go with that approach until guys start hitting and who knows, Anderson has shown a lot of signs of maturation. He's got a better approach at the plate and nothing would be better than having him develop (if he did, you'd have Quentin/Anderson penciled into your outfield for a long time). That said I'm not about to say that Anderson is a better option than any of those guys (if in fact they were producing), but he has "upside" and plays a tremendous CF and is producing respectably enough to get additional playing time. Anderon's big thing is he needs to show more opposite field and up the middle power. He obviously possesses it but he has a knack for grounding out (typically hard, but grounding out) to 3rd base and I think thats because he's a bit pull happy at this point in time (probably to an extent because he's pressing, albeit, this pull-happy version is the best version of BA we've seen at the major league level to date).

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 3, 2008 -> 05:47 AM) Because you take the best person available and Silverio is actually 20. On top of that, middle infielders tend to be the premiere athletes on the field, which means, if come AA or AAA time you have 3 top middle infield guys, you can always opt to trade one of them or consider a move to 3B/2B/CF as they should be able to easily handle any of those positions (and in most instances they'll have the ability to become plus defenders at those positions, assuming that they are an "athletic" SS and not a "David Eckstein").

Screw Beckham, I have fallen in love with Crawford out of UCLA. He has all the ability you could ask for out of a SS. He possesses a short, quick swing that generates good power. On top of that he has a f***ing rocket-ship for an arm and very good range out at shortstop. He was one of the top players in the country entering the year and like many of the Bruins they had trouble handling the pre-season accolodes but he's came on strong as of late and is VERY VERY projectable. If this kid is there in the 3rd round the Sox better take him (even if they took Beckham in the 1st). I am absolutely convinced he'll be the 2nd to 3rd best SS in this draft, possibly even the best (although the Beckham's are both rock solid as well).

Alright Gavin, be the stopper!!!

There would have to be more to that trade than just that, because stand-a-lone, that would be the greatest move the Bulls ever made (well, maybe not better than drafting Jordan, but it would be pretty close to as good). I'd have to think the Bulls would be giving up some of its core, in addition to the #1 pick (and again, I'd have zero problem doing such). Hell, Beasley may turn into 5 times the player Rose is in the pro's (afterall, he was 5 times better than him on the court for the ENTIRE NCAA season). I have no problem taking Rose, but in no way shape or form am I that in love with him that I wouldn't move the pick down to get a guy like Wade (health issues be damn, he's already proven he can carry a team to a title and the Bulls, even with a trade of some of its talent, would be plenty good (I'd imagine you'd be talking about Gordon/Hinrich/#1 for Wade/#2 (no brainer in my book).

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 09:20 PM) Well, the only thing I've read about Retherford talked about his athleticism, how he could play anywhere on the field, and his baseball smarts. First name that popped into my head was Inge when I read that about him. I have a hard time seeing him become a major force with the bat, but with his athleticism, baseball IQ, and ability to play everywhere, he can make it as a bench player, IMO. I doubt anyone here has ever really seen Retherford, so any prediction I make is as bold as any prediction anyone else makes. You are probably right on Retherford. I think a lot of us here base things on reports read and than some sort of statistical analysis. In the past I could say I'd seen a very large chunk of our players play, but less now than before (as I haven't seen any of the Sox affiliates play in the past 2 years). The extent of what I've seen is guys in college/highschool, youtube clips, and the ocassional MILB game I watch (that and the ocassional emails I shoot out to some people I've met in the organization based upon past minor league visits I've made. So you definately aren't in the minority. Heck, aside from the big boys at BA, most anyone writing about the minors haven't seen the guys play more than a couple times (and often times your opinion is largely dependent on how that guy was doing in very limited action, which isn't exactly indicative of a good asseessment necessarily).

I thought the Rangers resigned Jagr? Or am I mistaken and they are still in talks for an extension?

I should add that despite a lot of my negative nancy posts, I fully believe this team is capable of winning a division. I also fully believe Thome/Konerko are capable of having productive seasons (or seasons from this point on). I just believe it is key for Kenny to notice the flaws in this lineup regardless of the outcome and to hopefully address such flaws in the off-season (he started this off-season and I'd like to see him continue this upcoming one). Maybe they'll be able to make a move in season to correct the flaw to an extent (ie, a leadoff hitter or something; but maybe Alexi develops faster than expected) but anything more than that will be very difficult (given the lack of top notch talent in the high minors which could come up and make an impact or the top notch talent which can be dealt to get guys who can make the impact). I fully believe Swisher, Konerko, Thome will all finish the year above .250 (maybe not much more above it, but I think they all will, barring one of these guys being seriously injured).

Bear, I want to point out, that its hard to have any sort of intuition on anyone without at least seeing them play or reading scouting reports (stats are not something you can really infur off of, unless you are going strictly by the cover and stating guys over such and such OPS are good, guys with a WHIP of X are good. Not saying anything is wrong, just saying sometimes you may want to gut check some of the ballsy statements (or just preface it by stating its based on nothing more than a gut feeling). That said, I love your enthusiasm when it comes to the farm and it spurs some very good debate/discussion on here. Plus, as anyone whose been here for a while knows, I've made my fair share of bold, completely based on gut posts (see practically every guarantee I've ever made regarding who I think the Sox will trade for, LOL). I know for me, I stated my opinions on Fields and get bold but I try to back them up based on what I've seen (mixed in with the fact that everyone on these boards has come to realize I hate guys that hit .250 and strike out 150 times (no matter how many freaking hr's they hit, well, if they hit 50 plus, I'll put up with it, LOL). Or If I haven't seen a guy and I'm basing it off what I've read, I try to include that information. Anyway, enough of these, lets figure out who the hell the Sox are going to draft and hope like hell he's going to be a superstar (and hopefully we get plenty of good players in the remaining rounds).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Thome for Crisp and Masterson Thats a deal I'd do. I don't know if the Red Sox would, but given Ortiz injury and there financial state (ie, plenty of money) it could be a move that makes sense for both sides. The reason I'd be excited with the deal is it gets the Sox Masterson who is a tremendous arm.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 05:49 PM) So because of a bad two months by a 27 year old and 32 year old, they aren't starters anymore? Really? Personally I think they'll both have at least a few good years. The question is whether they are good fits for this offense. I think Swisher, when on, could be (assuming Thome is elsewhere, he can be to a lesser extent the Sox version of the Thome of a year or two ago, but with less power obviously, all while playing defense). The problem is the Sox are trying to win and at some point you have to ask, how long can we wait and when do we cut our losses, move them at less than market value (but than use those pieces to get guys that we think could help us now). Again, its not easy and I don't think its possible so I think for the most part we are stuck with what we have (and once those guys get going, maybe Kenny will realize the up's and downs of the past year are due to having a lot of guys that are likely to get into big slumps, and he'll move those players and pick up a few "pure" hitters to mesh in with the big poppers that are left.

On a sidenote, the Dodgers could definately use some power. They have a horrid contract on there hands as do the Sox and I'm thinking you could potentially make a trade where the Dodgers add power, lose a problem, and the Sox get one guy whose struggling (possibly to an extent because of an injury and a good young player (Dodgers get two guys, who when they get s*** together aren't all that bad). This would be a Paul Konerko/Nick Swisher for Andruw Jones/James Loney type of deal. Long term its a deal that might benefit both teams (if Konerko/Swisher get going, there slugging would be exactly what the Dodgers need) and from the Sox perspective Loney is the pure hitter you could stick in the 3 hole for years (plus contractually he's going to be cheap). Andruw Jones is a god-awful contract, but he still plays a plus CF and should provide power (albeit from a lower spot in the order) and who knows, maybe he gets healthy and starts to hit a bit.

If the Dodgers wanted to get gutsy, they could deal Ethier to the Sox for Orlando Cabrera. They would play OC at SS until Furcal comes back and could than slide him to 2B (again, this is probably very unrealistic). Its more me loving Ethier and trying anyway way to come up with some talent wise that would be a fair deal.

Personally I rank Shelby ahead of all of them. He is the #1 prospect in the organization in my opinion. This isn't what a generic scout would say and honestly if I were to truly rate a top 5 it would be Fields/Poreda/Broadway/Shelby/Richar and that says something (cause that is one truly s***ty top 5). Egbert based on his last night's start would knock Richar out of the list (but I'd like to see him further prove he's now 100%). The system is barren and I did that list very quickly and may very well be missing some people. Poreda is the only guy with super-star potential in the system and if I were going to peg a second guy it would be Shelby (the guy is a pure hitter with good power and athletism (but me calling him a super-star prospect is just me getting depserate because our system is that freaking bad). Broadway has a good chance of being a rock solid middle of the rotation starter (Radke type of guy). Egbert is a sinkerballer I absolutely love. Hitting wise, Fields has massive power, but very little of anything else that excites me (this is my personal belief and I also believe the Sox should trade him for a much more all around prospect to a team that is looking for an upgrade at 3B (since Fields is technically ML ready; Slugging like he did last year makes him just that). Cook is not a prospect (just want to point that out). Getz is a solid guy, but odds are he turns into a back-up infielder (if everything went well, Mark Grudzelanek type of guy). Other guys of note for me offensively: Stephan Gartrell (I liked the guy since he was picked out of San Fran or whever the hell it was in Nor Cal; He's a very good athlete).

Welcome aboard I actually wouldn't be opposed to Owens now that he's swinging a solid bat. More importantly though, his left handed bat plus speed would be an asset off the bench. I'm not saying he should be starting over Anderson (if the Sox opt to give Anderson more starts in CF) but I do think he could have a very valuable off the bench (situational bunting, base running, etc). Plus him sitting on the bench isn't like some superstar prospect sitting and having there development slowed (since the reality is, Owens is a role player).

TCSN: Sox Offense is One Hot Potato By Mario Scalise

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 01:38 PM) Uribe? Uribe's also much better defensively than Fields at the hot-corner. I know I've been one of the people whose suggested bringing Fields up (despite his horrid numbers in the minors) solely to see if something could spark the team. I also continue to believe that Walker isn't at fault. In fact, if you really isolate things you'd see that AJ, Quentin, Crede are all doing fine. You than have two big time new-comers who are veterans (Quentin worked a bit with Walker and since he's younger and less proven the Sox coach to an extent helped with him from early in spring (I remember hearing such on the radio at least, plus a lot of Quentin's success has something to do with him getting healthy. These guys are OC/Swisher and you can expect a learning curve between Walker and OC. OC has picked things up (plus its his first year in Chicago so you'd expect some sort of buffer period while Walker adjusts to OC's swing/style). Swisher seems to finally be making some adjustments but the first month or so of his struggles you really can't point the finger at Walker (who has to learn Swisher's swing/intrecacies). Heck, I heard Chipper Jones interviewed saying how it took a few years before Gary Pendelton (Braves Hitting coach) was really able to help him with his swing (he still uses his dad the most, but Pendelton is now involved as well). The other two big time failures are: Jim Thome/Paul Konerko. Jim Thome is an old player so whose to say old age and a slower bat speed haven't caused his decline. Paul Konerko was clearly hurt and is a notorious slow starter so again, you could put the blame there. Juan Uribe is the other guy struggling and well, he's been far better in Chicago than he was in Colorado and I think everyone knows he won't win a batting title. Bottom line, if you really wanted to I think Swisher (only his recent struggles) is the only guys struggles that you can really put on Walker. Again, I think its clear that the vet middle of the order (highly paid) guys are the cause of the Sox struggles and its time Kenny realizes that maybe those guys he thought he could count on can't be counted on. The thing is, middle of the order run producers don't grow on trees and it won't be easy to find replacements (plus the Sox would have to move those guys in order to get the replacements). The other issue with the offense, aside from the two big middle producers (plus Swisher) tanking is the lack of a leadoff hitter and you can't put that on Walker. He shouldn't be fired, but if you've tried everything else and Kenny is convinced he can't get or won't part with Thome/Konerko, than its probably time to fire the hitting coach (because there really isn't another option).

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 09:29 AM) My problem with releasing Uribe is that he's still set to be a Type B FA after this season. Why not just keep him on as a bench player seeing limited playing time, and pick up another draft pick next year? Because you would have to offer him arbitration and given the amount he is paid there is a decent chance he would accept arbitration and end up signing another 1 year deal with the Sox (because I don't know if many teams will be throwing him a long-term deal with more money than he's making currently).

I'm starting to lean towards Beasley. Offensively he can be a true force, ie the super star. The type of guy that no team can defend and he should be able to consistently score (and become the type of guy that goes to the line 10 times a game). That is something the Bulls haven't had since Jordan and it would be a tremendous addition to the offense. I would go with Beasley/Deng/Sef/Hinrich and find a way to acquire a legit C (and than rotate other guys in and out, including Noah/Thomas (who would both get significant minutes coming in, as would Nocioni). Defensively you'd be a bit undersized, but all of the wing players are good rebounders for there position and defensively you'd have to hope the center you acquire can be a shut-down type (plus you have Noah off the bench in case you need to ocassionally slide Sef or Hinrich to the bench and move Beasley to more of a 3 position.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 07:05 PM) And he's 6th in AL OF voting. He needs to be in CF, Quentin in LF, and Maggs in RF. But no, everyone wants to see Vlad and Ichiro. Let me guess- Bonds is on the ballot?? Seen you in a couple threads and just want to say Welcome Aboard!!!

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 04:52 PM) Of course he is boxed in. If he could have pulled a deal today, he would have. He just better hope the team stays in 1st or at the very least afloat until a trade opportunity opens up. The guys who are struggling may turn it around somewhat but this offense as constructed will be prone to long dry spells. In the meantime the only weapon Guillen has is benching guys or firing Walker. Therefore it is likely he will bench 1-2 guys. Tuesday I see Crede on the bench for Ozuna and Konerko on the bench although Swisher is just as bad. The only name that's out there for the taking is Lofton but obviously been there, done that. I think that is where the Sox need to find a way to surrender some power and find a few guys that are good "pure" hitters (heck, even Randy Wynn types work). I really believe pure hitters tend to slump the list of anyone (since they use all fields and just have very good fluid hitting mechanics). Again, easier said than done, but I'd gladly take a couple guys who could hit .300 with 10-15 HR's and give up 2 of our guys that will hit .250 with mediocre OBP's and solid slugging %'s (just because I think a couple of those type of players will really help make this a balanced offense). Plus, if we need another guy that will hit .250, post good slugging numbers, we can always call up Fields.

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 04:29 PM) It is very good they have a day off tomorrow. I was waiting for the Guillen explosion, sure enough it happened. At the moment, the only possible move I see is Konerko to the DL. I am not sure the trade market is open at this point. I'm thinking Ozzie may talk with Kenny and the one opening I do see is the Sox moving Crede to open up a spot for Fields. This doesn't necessarily mean Fields is better than Crede, I really don't think he is (and I have a lot of concerns with Fields) but moving Crede should be able to either get you prospets (which you can use to acquire another major leaguer to fill another spot) or get you a valuable major league part (in a ML for ML type of deal). I also could see Paulie getting DL'd, but it comes down to whether the Sox think he's done right now (due to the injury) or if he's working his way out of it (if he is, than having his bat back would be a HUGE HUGE addition to the lineup). Clearly you can't really trade Thome/Konerko (Despite how much I would be willing to do so) because the market probably isn't there for them (or at least not to the extent that you'd get value, but maybe Kenny has to bite the bullet on one of those guys for the sake of making changes).

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 04:07 PM) Couldn't have said it better. Nicely stated. Maybe there will be a surprise transaction but I think this is a motivational ploy. These guys are too comfortable and something needs to get done. Konerko's AB in the 9th wasn't good, if Ozuna wasn't doing some heads up baserunning he wouldn't have even made 3rd. Crede didn't get it done and Swisher is dazed and confused at the moment. I really believe the wake up call will Walker getting fired. I haven't heard anything indicating Walker isn't a solid hitting coach, but clearly he's not getting through to his fullest extent and at some point you have to be judged by your record (and this offense has been pretty poor 3 out of the past 4 years (this includes the World Series year, where the offense was decent, but far from what I'd call good). Plus, I think Walker getting ousted should continue to wake guys up. In addition, I continue to believe the Sox may make an adjustment to the bench/roster (not via trade, rather AAA). I don't know if they'd send Wass down and get Getz up, plus make a move with one of there struggling bats (calling up Fields and making sure he rotates in). Interesting quotes from Kenny though as it sounds like this was Ozzie doing one thing and Kenny being out of the loop (I completely undersatnd Ozzie's frustration and a lot of this might be motivational to an extent, but at the same time, him and Kenny need to talk and get on the same page and quickly). Wholesale changes have to happen to this offense, but I think everyone has been well aware of that for some time on here (specifically finding a legitimate leadoff hitter, getting CF covered, and finding a way to replace struggling vets with solid vets or young players (because regardless of what Thome/Konerko/Swisher have done, none of it matters when you aren't producing and I'll put up with growing pains if it gets the Sox some players who will be trending "upwards" and not spiraling "downwards" (note that Swisher doesn't necessarily fit into the over the hill part, but he's clearly struggling).

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) Direct quote from Guillen broadcasted on WSCR: "If we think we're going to win with this offense we're full of s***." HAHAHAHAHAH. I love it. I don't care if he's throwing his offense under the bus, it's true. Too bad there's nothing much Williams can do. At the least, he has assured tomorrow's offday will be interesting. That may be the greatest Ozzie quote yet.