Chisoxfn

QUOTE (fathom @ May 14, 2008 -> 08:13 PM) Compared to not making any moves last season to try and shake things up, I would say doing it in mid-May is pretty proactive. I completely agree and I understand Ozzie hesitated for a while. Afterall, the lineup came out of the gates like gangbusters (something you couldn't say about last season). It was a gutsy move by Ozzie and proactive. I highly doubt we'll see AJ stay in the 2 spot all season but for the time being it was a good move. I also see Swisher slowly getting things figured out now that he's down in the order and that should be really really good for the offense. Thome still looks bloody awful. Paulie had some good ab's today (hit a missile to CF, but the ball died) plus a nice single. Thome's last AB he at least hit a rocket. Juan is taking pitches and looking semi serviceable out there (although I still badly want a new starting 2nd baseman).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 14, 2008 -> 08:49 PM) You have to do that there, as you need to set up the force at home. AJP is a great contact hitter, so it's not like you could count on striking him out. Also, I don't know what the stats say this year, but Shields is filthy against righties. I agree, that was the right call. AJ is a solid contact hitter and regardless the game became a one run game and the best chance at getting out of that inning unscaved is by putting AJ on and getting a force at all bases. Quentin came up and took two close fastballs and than took advantage of Shields having to come in. It was just textbook. I freaking love Quentin. I also want to point out that it looks as if Swisher is getting closer and closer to getting out of his funk and OC looked like his old self at the plate. I love AJ in the 2 spot. I would be fine with him leading off too, but two spot works fine. Nice job making the change Ozzie.

QUOTE (stretchstretch @ May 14, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) so how does a guy who grew up in Irvine become a rabid CHW fan of all teams? Since leaving the SouthSide, I've lived in four other states and the Sox are a team whose gear you only see outside Chgoland as an urban-esque fashion statement (most unfortunately). Half of my family is from Chicago and somehow I decided to spite my old man and root for the Sox instead of his team (Dodgers). It gives us something to give each other crap for (same with me liking the Bulls and him the Lakers). WGN and Frank Thomas were also very influential to the whole thing.

Wasn't the Kochman/Santana rumor even more of a possibility the year prior (before Kochman had really broken out). It wasn't like last off-season was the first time Konerko to the Angels rumors popped up. Of course the prior times Santana was the bigger chip while Kochman was a top prospect who hadn't proven he could put it together at the major league level. There were numerous possibilities out there and I just know that I have always been gaga over getting those type of players. I love Santana's stuff and Kochman has good all around tools and just a great approach at the plate. He'll never be a superstar, but he'll be a really really quality ball player for a long time.

Wasn't the Kochman/Santana rumor even more of a possibility the year prior (before Kochman had really broken out). It wasn't like last off-season was the first time Konerko to the Angels rumors popped up. Of course the prior times Santana was the bigger chip while Kochman was a top prospect who hadn't proven he could put it together at the major league level. There were numerous possibilities out there and I just know that I have always been gaga over getting those type of players. I love Santana's stuff and Kochman has good all around tools and just a great approach at the plate. He'll never be a superstar, but he'll be a really really quality ball player for a long time.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ May 14, 2008 -> 03:04 PM) Or try and get Kotchman and Santana from the Halos. Wait, they suck though, right? Lets not forget Erik Aybar. I recall my hard on for all of those guys was at times where they weren't necessarily highly regarded in the Angels organization (Kochman's love was after he had failed once, Santana love started in the minors, and than continued even though he struggled in the bigs and I loved Aybar since watching him in spring training a year or two ago). I've been wrong many times, but I still completely disagree with the money-ball approach to building a lineup. There is a lot more to fielding a good offense than OPB/Slugging.

Its too bad Tracy's injuries seemed to get the best of him. He was a solid major leaguer who could have had some very good seasons. Hell, he had some more than solid major league seasons (His first 3 seasons were very solid). I remember getting a lot of flack for saying how much I liked Erik Aybar last year. He still has to work on improving his strike-zone judgement, but he looks to be a legitimate major league shortstop with the upside to one day be an above average leadoff hitter (who plays a premium position). And yes, I continue to be infatuated with many Angels players. They play a style of baseball I like (it also fits into my thoughts on how I'd design my roster) and have been a rock solid fundamental team for a number of years.

I would have no problem with a younger Randy Winn on the White Sox. I know that will make some people throw up, but I think the Sox could use a couple guys in the lineup that who can start innings off if they happen to lead-off an inning. Funny thing is, I've also always been a Randy Winn fan (back from his days in Seattle). I'd easily take him as a 2 hitter on this club.

I've never said he isn't statistically good. However, I don't expect him to hit .280 this year. If he did I'd be much more acceptable of him. I didn't have a major problem with him the past couple years. However, I'm not going to lie, I would prefer to use the DH as a spot to rest your everyday players (essentially having 9 to 10 guys on your roster that can play everyday and utilizing the DH to give guys rest or play the lefty/righty match-ups). Thome will probably hit .250 this year (+/- 10 points) and to me that is where when you have a team that already crushes home runs I'll take a pass and take a guy that would hit .50 points higher with 15 hr's who can go 1st to 3rd and play solid defense. In fact he's better than all of those DH's with the exception of Ortiz. I didn't consider Hideki Matsui in there because I consider Giambi a DH more so than Hideki.

The approach of a leadoff hitter is much different and I wouldn't want to mess with Quentin. Quentin has the mentality of a run producer and he has done an excellent job at that. He swings hard, but at the same time works the count and utilizes all fields (thus making him a very good all-around player). Putting at the top of the order may screw with his mentality and have him try to focus more on increasing his average and reducing his power (aka, being more hesitant to drive the ball) and that would negatively impact his production. Honestly, no one on this lineup is better suited for the top of the order than AJ. He is at his best when he IS trying to hit for an average and being in the top spot of the lineup would basically play to his strength (minus the speed of course). OC is in a major bind and he looked like he was coming out of it in Seattle but has looked horrid against the Angels. Still, I think he'll find his way out of things. He's too good not to, but I think he's putting way too much pressure on himself right now and that is probably the case with a lot of the hitters (when everyone is going bad, than everyone pushes too hard and no one gets out of the funks).

I expect him to be the future CF of the franchise (based on what is currently in-house).

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 14, 2008 -> 02:17 PM) Except for the fact that he has a no trade clause and didn't want to be traded. I will also say that he is a very good value for a team looking for slugging. I don't anticipate him finishing the year with this bad of an average. I think he'll hit .240-.260 with 35hr's and quite a few RBI's and a near .400 OBP. Those are not numbers that I find acceptable but on a team that really lacks power he could be the perfect fit (note, I don't believe the Chicago White Sox is that team). Also, Kalapse brings up a key point. As much as I banter to move Thome, it is all a moot point unless he is willing to accept a deal and I've yet to see the papers even speculate or ask anyone internally whether they believe he would. I assume this is because the media figures Kenny will not move Thome/Konerko because Ozzie/Kenny both really like the two of them.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 14, 2008 -> 01:45 PM) except for the fact that he's a stud I'd disagree with that. He was once a stud, but we have differing opinions when it comes to sluggers. Heck, major league baseball has differing opinions, probably 50% feel the way you do, another 50% probably lean more towards me, which just shows the varying management styles (in terms of scouting/player personell/putting together a roster) that exist in todays game. I will say that Thome or Konerko for Roberts straight up would be a poor trade that accomplishes little. The key to moving Thome/Konerko is to free up salary and a roster spot (for Fields production) and to get one legit potential all star player for each (more is obviously better, but I'm not greedy). I, however, am more in the game plan of getting as much young talent as you can and letting it slowly mold while holding onto Swisher/Dye and letting them stick it out in the middle of the order (same with Quentin). I'll see what you can get for Crede on the open market, but it may be better to wait on him and opt/hope you can get at least type B compensation for him. If someone offers one good prospect, than I'd be willing to bite though. Than let those players slowly mold and hope that your rotation/bullpen keep you in games and that the offense finds way to pull in enough wins to get a shot at the wild card (those young guys should only get better, thus you will be talking about a team on the up-swing.

QUOTE (stretchstretch @ May 14, 2008 -> 01:10 PM) any chance you have kids that go to Westpark elementary, I used to see a guy there for school events wearing an early-era Sox hat, which is beyond rare in these parts? Nope, I'm only 25, so no kids yet. I went to school and spent pretty much my whole life in Irvine though. Springbrook (Elementary), Southlake (Middle School), and than Woodbridge (HS). I know in my time in Irvine I've almost never seen anyone sporting any Sox gear.

Steve/NS It obviously isn't ideal to have a slow catcher leading off, especially one who isn't known to draw many walks. However, I actually really like the idea because I think leading off will have essentially the opposite effect it had on Swisher. Swisher is the type of hitter that needs to drive the ball and is most effective when doing so. As a leadoff hitter he became less willing to do such because he really changed his standard approach. However, AJ tends to be most effective when he is actually trying to just get a single and when he slumps it is because he gets too power happy so sticking him in the leadoff spot will force him to spray the ball to all fields (which is a strenght of AJ's) and could very well enable him to post career numbers in both average and obp. I like the idea of CQ in the 3 spot and OC in the two hole as well. I also would have no issue with Dye in the 3 spot, Thome 4, CQ 5, Paulie 6, Swisher, Crede, etc. As far as I'm concerned as long as CQ/Dye are raking they should be in the 3/5 spots of the order with Thome in between them and Konerko providing protection. Paulie should still get good pitches with Swish behind him as well.

QUOTE (stretchstretch @ May 14, 2008 -> 01:01 PM) that team had some speed mixed in, our fastest guys are just average at best, there's no crisp, pedroia to offset the other 7 on the field with the sox, and Ramirez can get on his horse if needed, he's certainly much faster than Konerko, and they have not one player nearly as slow as AJ or Thome, they are down right sloths..... I just want to say, it is weird having another poster on this site from Irvine, CA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 14, 2008 -> 12:57 PM) The funny part is that dude could be Gage's brother... The resemblence is scary. I saw that picture and was like, wow, he kind of looks like me. I looked just as ridiculous with my popped collar too and it was all for nothing as Krod shut everyone but Quentin down

I still wish the Sox got either Hunter/Rowand which were my first two choices. However, I liked the Swisher deal and I was one of those people who thought the Jones deal was a very good one financially for the Dodgers (although I didn't necessarily believe that they needed to add another outfielder, given that they had Pierre to a fat deal and had Ethier/Kemp who are both rock solid and have the upside to be above average (Ethier) and elite (Kemp's case). I was definately wrong on the Jones move. In terms of Hunter I still didn't see the logic given the Angels plethora of outfielders, but he has played tremendous for them and has really been the only consistent bat in the middle of that order this season (due to Vladdy's early season slump).

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 14, 2008 -> 12:35 PM) I agree that Shelby could be a very good player, but to be considered top 25 in all of baseball, you have to be young for your league, or if average for your league, have simply ridiculous numbers. If you are old, you have to be an elite oversees talent like Ichiro or Dice-K. Shelby might be a top 100 guy after this year, but too old for top 25. I didn't say he'd be there this year, but I think he has that sort of upside. I was making a relatively outlandish statement though and I deserve the heat cause you are probably right (based on the age thing).

I really believe you can find/mold first baseman much easier, plus you can typically acquire those prospects that can hit like crazy but just don't have a position a lot easier than you can acquire a toolsy type of SS.

I don't understand the notion of trading Konerko for an aging 2nd baseman. If you are going to make a deal with the O's, you should be getting good young MLB ready players or some solid prospects, not a 2nd baseman who is on the downside of his career (albeit, he would be a very good fit on this team for another 1-2 years, but with the current make-up not a total makeshifts lineup focused on youth). Konerko has reached 10-5 rights so he would have to approve any deal. Still, if you came to him and said the team was going to get younger I'm not sure if he would stand in the way (as long as he was getting traded to a city/team he liked and that could compete). I'm not sure Baltimore would be that place (even though he did get the largest offer from the O's).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2008 -> 11:53 AM) What I don't understand is the Walker bashers refusing to bash any other coach. Why is it the coach's fault when a player strikeouts out, but not the coach's fault when a player misses a cutoff man for the upteenth time? How many times is Swisher going to air mail the infield allowing runners to advance before he or a coach is held accountable? To me that part of the game falls on the manager. At the end of the day it is the manager who sets the tone and unless he benches guys or gets on them or discusses/communicates with them what not to do than a player is probably going to continue making the same mistakes. Fundementally the Sox have been absolutely horrific this season (Position wise) and I put that blame on both the players but also the coaching staff. About the only coach that I'm completely happy with is Don Cooper because I just really love his approach to pitching. I also have no problem with Cox on 3rd as I think he's done a pretty darn solid job. Can't comment on Baines at 1st because being a 1st base coach isn't tough, it is the other stuff that he contributes that should be important and since I'm not in the clubhouse I'm not privy to such circumstances. The big thing this team misses is Nossek, a legitimate, baseball guy who just flat out knows the game, more importantly the strategies of the game, which is something Ozzie is very clueless in. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ozzie's best qualities are the intangibles he brings to the clubhouse and if he can't get the best out of his players and force quality fundamentals than he probably shouldn't be managing because he's one of the worse managers in the game in terms of "strategy".

I would be incredibly happy with drafting Beckham.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 14, 2008 -> 10:34 AM) So I need a few examples real quick. 1. Can I have an example of a player who falls into your "athlete" category and 2. what's your definition of "leadoff" guy? Carlos Quentin Brian Anderson (however, Anderson has not proven himself to be a good baseball player yet and not all athletes will) Juan Uribe (he is again a very good athlete, imo, just a poor hitter) Jermaine Dye (not what he once was, but I still consider him a solid athlete) Grady Sizemore (extreme example) Curtis Granderson (more extreme examples) Matt Kemp James Loney Erik Aybar (I consider him a good athlete, however he does lack power (but he's not purely a "speed" guy because he's showing to be a pretty damn good defensive player as well) Orlando Cabrera (older, but solid athlete) Nick Swisher (would prefer a better approach but he's a good all around athlete) Rafael Furcal Jimmy Rollins Nick Markakis Gary Matthews Jr. Torri Hunter I'm not necessarily saying a guy needs to be a 5 tool player but I am saying they should have 1st to 3rd speed and the ability to do a couple of things right. Basically put, the one thing I'm relatively opposed to is a pure slugger. Now if they can slugg, draw walks, AND hit for an average (ie, Manny Ramirez/David Ortiz) than you can come on down and join my squad any day of the weak. If you only slugg and draw walks while hitting for a poor average (Frank Thomas/Adam Dunn/Jim Thome/Paul Konerko (right now he fits this mold, although he isn't close to being the type of slugger the other guys in the list are) than I really don't have much of a place for you on my team. I should note that it isn't necessarily easy finding good athletes that are also good baseball players and I left tons of people off my list as there are athletes that are perennial all stars, some that are bench players, and others that are less proven but bottom line if I were building a franchise I'd be building around good athletes (ie, good all around players with multiple quality skill-sets). I should point out that if you have a lot of good all around players, but lack a true power guy, than one person like Thome could fit in fine. Just like if you have a lot of solid athletes but maybe lack defense at a position, you can afford to go with a guy with a more limited tool set, as long as it fills a need (ie, a stud defensive SS who is a poor hitter or a top notch defensive catcher). There are also exceptions in the sense that you will typically have a slugger/slower guy at one of 1st/3B (sometimes at both) plus the catcher spot. Which means as far as I'm concerned, you should have guys with multiple skill-sets around that. And I'm getting very general here, but its just my personal philosophy towards how I would build a franchise (position wise).

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 14, 2008 -> 09:07 AM) Would you consider Carl Everett "speed" because that's who Thome replaced. Anyone who thinks Carl Everett is a better baseball player than Jim Thome is out of their gourd. This "speed" that the '05 Sox added was Scott Podsednik and Tadahito Iguchi and correct me if I'm wrong but up until this season both of those guys were still in the starting lineup. The addition of Thome subtracted no speed from the lineup, unless you consider Rowand to be a speedster and Erstad/Anderson/Mackwiak to be plodders. I should add, I use the word "athletes" as opposed to "speed" because the last thing I want is a guy like Jerry Owens who is on a roster solely because he's fast. I just want guys that are all around baseball players, because in the end I think if you get enough of those guys you can always end up acquiring that one guy to stick in the middle of the lineup to complete things. It is where my opinion differs from a lot of peoples. Heck, I honestly think if I was a lineup, I would design it with multiple leadoff hitters. Ie, I'd have the top of the order, but than I'd have another leadoff type guy down in the 6 spot in the lineup and throw some production guys behind him and again back to speed at the 9 spot so you can turn 9-1-2 around with a lot of speed if needed. I say this because the leadoff guy only starts the game, but its nice to know you have a few guys throughout your lineup that during the regular course of the game if they happen to leadoff an inning they would be more than capable of being a so called "leadoff" guy.