Chisoxfn

QUOTE (fathom @ May 13, 2008 -> 08:44 PM) I didn't see anything in the game thread that suggested someone was suspended. I don't think anyone was suspended from the game thread. I was at the game though.

Personally I think any topic can be beaten to the ground or a topic can turn into a thing of awesomeness. IT all depends on the posters and everyone doing there best to make sure that no matter what they say they try to add something to the conversation and bring more to the debate/thread. Just my 2 cents and I've been a negative nancy as of late but I still try my best to add something to the discussions or say something and I'm one who is always willing to admit whether I'm wrong and if I say something bad about the Sox I do nothing but hope to end up being right. Hell, at yesterdays game I popped my collar in the 9th inning and tried to create the rally collar. Obviously it didn't work.

Shelby is untouchable in my book. The guy is a total freaking STUD. I also want to continue to annoit the fact that I want to see Chris Getz playing 2B for the White Sox. Oh and if Fields was still considered a prospect, I'd point out that I'd still rank Shelby ahead of him. That is how much I think of Shelby. I expect him to rank in the top 25 prospects in all of baseball at some point of his minor league career.

Releasing Jim would be extreme. I would be fully willing to move him for one A to B+ prospect. I know Thome is struggling but he should still be worth that (the question is whether he would approve a deal). I doubt the Sox could get a top 15 prospect but they should be able to get something quality for Jimmy. I say this because I want the Sox to make wholesale changes to the offense. I'm as negative about Jimmy as it gets and I think he's a terrible fit for the current Sox squad (because this team has enough sluggers already, imo, and he could probably garnish the most value out of there aging sluggers), but on the right team he could be a major addition (ie, Seattle could really use a legit guy like him to complete there lineup; Minnesota could use him as well (not that the Sox would trade within the division).

I do agree that Roberts single-handedly makes the offense much much better and a lot less one dimensional. It is funny the type of impact a top notch lead-off hitter can have. The problem is the cost to acquire Roberts is too steap, imo. I think the Sox should look at the rotation they have, realizing that if Floyd/Danks keep it up (and they will have to for the rotation to be good) than you have a good foundation plus Javy/Mark who will be here and productive. Find one more young guy to replace Contreras and than you really will have a nice mix of pitchers (Broadway could be that guy until Poreda comes up and potentially develops into a #1/#2 guy (I'm not saying he will, but it is clear he has the type of arm that can dominate lineups; and yes, there is much more than having a good arm, but you have to at least be excited about his upside). The key is really retooling the lineup and the Sox have at least found Quentin/Swisher who are nice pieces (plus Fields in the minors). AJP/Dye will be here a bit longer and technically so will Paulie. They will have to find a way to get some more good younger position players here and if you can do that you can really turn things around, imo and have a team that can battle for a year or two and still be solid enough to compete (the offense isn't doing much anyway, so try to get as much young position talent as possible and hope that the pitching staff can keep the Sox in a lot of games and slowly yet surely the offense comes around and you have a real nice looking squad. And no, it won't necessarily be easy to do this, but it is possible.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 13, 2008 -> 02:54 AM) I'm not excusing what he's done this year. He's been terrible. However, to suggest the Sox don't win games when Thome's in the lineup is absolute bulls***. In 2006, when the Sox team ERA rose an entire f***ing run from 3.68 to 4.68, there was only a 9 game drop off in wins. There were two major changes made to the lineup, and one of those was a colossal failure. The other was adding the bat of Jim Thome, and that alone saved the Sox an even bigger disappointment of a season. And even suggesting that anything had to do with Thome last year is absurd - the Sox had Erstad and Podsednik in CF and LF, a mediocre starting rotation, a terrible bullpen, and a banged up team in the first half of the year. If the Sox didn't have Thome, they probably would have lost 100 games (which would have been just fine in some circumstances, but the point remains the same). He's terrible right now, but if you are just going to assume that a hitter of Thome's pedigree just falls off the face of the earth like this and doesn't figure out a way to fix himself, then you're wrong. I quite frankly don't give a s*** if he's all or nothing because he's been on base more than anybody in the Sox lineup in the past 2 or so years. What's wrong with either killing a ball, taking a walk, or striking out? He's turned in a Hall of Fame career doing just that and he's been the biggest home run threat in the middle of some of the best offenses of all time. And suggesting that you'd rather have Uribe up than Thome with runners on base late in a game is probably only because you're assuming the opposing manager will merely walk Thome to get a force at every base. Uribe's just as prone to striking out, less likely to hit a flyball or homer, and least likeliest to actually get on f***ing base. You're better than that. What's really funny to consider is that Thome actually hasn't been that bad this year - he's only hitting .214, but he's been on base 54 times in 36 games, half of his hits have gone for extra bases, and a quarter of his hits have been round trippers. If his average creeps to even .250 (and considering that he's a career .280 hitter, hasn't hit below .270 since 2003, and has never hit below .260 in a full season EVER), he'd be a damn good player and he'd probably end up with .250/.375/.550/.925 line, which is almost assuredly going to be better than any hitter on the Sox and could potentially be the second best OPS in the AL Central next to Miguel Cabrera. I overrate Thome a bit but that's only because so many people absolutely hate him, when all he has ever done is produce. I don't understand it and I never will. The same applies to Jermaine Dye too, quite frankly. Not to open a can of worms (but I'm sure it will), it's quite odd to me how Thome and Dye are scapegoats while Crede is given a free pass by many. Maybe I just haven't read around enough, but it's crazy. Wite, I'm not at all saying Thome is the reason the Sox lost last year. He was far from it. He is one of the reasons they are struggling this year though. I also have been very consistent to the fact that this team doesn't need more pure sluggers, it needs less. If this team had a lack of power, acquiring Thome would be a tremendous move (ie, if you are the Angels of a few years, adding one power bat to go with all that speed would be a brilliant move because it gives the offense more blow-out power). I also should point out that I feel the same way about Adam Dunn. I don't think he's the type of guy you build your lineup around. Jim Thome in his prime, yes, in fact I would never compare Thome in his prime to Adam Dunn, but I will compare Thome at this stage in his game to Dunn. I've been very consistent that I don't believe OPS/OBP is the tell all be all for a middle of the order hitter. OPS is very important, but a middle of the order hitter needs to have solid power, they also need to be able to hit for an average (because it is hits, not walks, that drive in runs and unlike the top of the order where I feel OBP is the tell all be all, in the middle of the order, average/power is probably the most important stat, imo because it will lead to knocking in the most amount of runs). In fact I'd have no problem with Thome if he was hitting in the 4/5 hole and Konerko was moved and the Sox found a new 2B and a very good athletic outfielder to come in (Swisher moving to 1B or Swisher moving to LF, Quentin to RF, Dye to learn/play 1B). You would than hopefully have the 2B go to the top of the lineup with Cabrera, move Quentin to the 3 spot (or Dye), have Thome in the 4 spot and than the other hitting in the 5 spot, than Swisher (once he gets things going, He's a solid fit here), Crede, AJ, Young Outfielder. At that point, you are talking about only having Thome/AJ/Crede who are slower guys and that will make a major difference. I really think this comes to my personal preference to having good athletes who can hit for an average because while you won't score 10 runs as much as you would compared to a team like the Sox (who should have quite a few double digit games) but you would consistently score 4-5 runs and be able to get 1 run when its needed a hell of a lot more than the White Sox do.

Look, I'm not saying Walker is the problem. I happen to think he's a solid hitting coach, but apparently he isn't getting through to a lot of the hitters. The Sox hitters are veterans and since you can't just unload half of the lineup (even though I wouldn't be opposed to doing such) the next best thing you can do is put the onus on the players by saying well we fired our hitting coach and if this new guy doesn't wake you guys up than you will be next. Bottom line at some point you have to be responsible for an utter lack of production and while I don't think Walker is at fault, the Sox hitters are way too comfortable and since you can't dump everyone, firing the hitting coach should send a memo down to the clubhouse. You also do it now because you can than have a couple month span to see what changes and if the hitters don't improve you start clearing them out of the way at the trade deadline.

Aside from the piss poor job he did holding runners, Danks was fantastic. Hell of an outing boy. I won't even speak of the offense. My f***ing word, what a joke. I don't blame Greg Walker, but like I said last year at one point and I will say again this year, you can't fire the entire offense but somehow you have to send a message and that means firing Greg Walker.

Wow, how Fullerton is ranked in the top 10 is beyond me.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 12, 2008 -> 11:17 AM) You don't trade a slugger like Jim Thome for a back up catcher. You can get a back up catcher for much less. It is suggestions like these that makes me glad we aren't the GM's. Hopeful this was just to generate discussion. Jeff Clement is more than a backup catcher. He's the type of guy you could potentially build your lineup around for a number of years. However, with AJ here it makes thing a bit more different. You could have Clement play some first and let Paulie/Dye DH more. If the Mariners would do a Thome for Clement deal I would make it in a heart beat because the Sox would be getting another potential cornerstone/franchise player. There are obviously no guarantees that Clement pans out, but he fills a major need (The sox could also move AJ from catcher since Clement has better defensive upside, however, AJ's offensive value is really related to the fact that he plays catcher). The Sox could also trade Thome for Clement and swing AJ elsewhere, however, I think Kenny/Ozzie really likes the way AJ handles the rotation and fits into the clubhouse. This is all in hypotheticals but from a value standpoint I have no problem with a Clement/Thome deal because it nets the Sox one top notch prospect (albeit I don't consider him a lock to be a perennial all-star, but the potential is there).

Before anyone rips things if he does pitch well against the Sox, Adenhart is not only the Angels top pitching prospect but he is considered one of the elite pitching prospects in all of baseball.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 11, 2008 -> 01:48 PM) The Sox are not in dire need of a catcher. AJP isn't the greatest in the world, but he's fine, and Hall has actually proven to be a capable backup this season. I'd also like to think that the Mariners wouldn't trade Cleveland for a year and a half of Thome, but I can't be certain of something like that. Bavasi isn't exactly bright. Trading Thome is also a terrible idea if the Sox want any hope of competing this year. He will be the biggest reason the Sox do anything against RHP this season. Trading Thome would be the best thing the Sox could do. Don't tell me his amazing stats, tell me what he does to win. Tell me what he does when the games are on the line. Tell me how he will go with an outside pitch when he has a huge f***ing hole due to the Thome shift (and there are runners on base and the club is in dire need of a run). Oh wait, he doesn't do any of those f***ing things. He hits home-runs when the team is already up big or in a big hole. He is all or nothing and the Sox have enough power bats in the lineup that they should move Thome. At least Crede will shorten up his swing, Paulie attempts to (and yes I'd be willing to move Paulie too), AJ usually tries (sometimes he's awful at it), Swisher has been terrible (he's been as feable if not more than Thome, but I'll give him a chance to prove that this is an exception to the rule, Thome has shown me over a few years that what I see of him now is pretty much exactly what he is). Hell, I'd rather have Uribe up with runners on 2nd and 3rd than Thome because at least Uribe will do what he needs to get a sac fly or get a run in. Thome will just swing really really hard 3 times and if he gets a pitch over the middle hit it a mile, but as long as they jam him in or go over the outer half of the plate he'll go down very easily (typically swinging or via a groundout).

Just want to say it again, but I would trade Thome straight up for a solid young infielder or outfielder. I've even gotten past practically giving him up for nothing. His approach is bloody terrible. He hits his homer runs when it doesn't matter and does nothing but try to pull the ball no matter what. Yesterday's game was just another example of what little he does to help a team "win". I know he gets stats and he probably will have similar stats to last year by seasons end, but he is not a "winner". I have to give Swish a bit more time, but he may fall in that boat as well (although I believe he has a bit better approach at the plate and I'm going to give him more time because he's younger and brings a tremendous attitude.

OH MY GOD

I'm locking it again. This thread was nothing but a damn curse to the Sox.

Fullerton is getting thumped 11-0 today. Gonna go tomorrow, hopefully they can pick up the win on Sunday and take the series. The Titans only have 3 wins on Saturday all season. They are playing against Cal Poly who is right now probably in the tourney but they'll have to really finish the season strong.

Just finished playing in a tourney this morning using 16inch softballs. It was the first time I've ever played that style but it was pretty fun. Definately looking forward to playing in this thing in the summer.

Anyone going to be at the games? I'll be at the Angels games on Monday & Tuesday and than the Giants game I think on Saturday.

Ya, that was an awesome series. I was sitting behind home when AJ had the hit and I remember early in the game telling my two friends at the game with me how Brazoban was going to blow the game and the Sox would win (this was in like the 4th or 5th inning).

Ya, I was surprised that they were playing at Dodger stadium again this year. I still got to get off my ass and pick up some tix to one or two of the games in LA cause I'm sure my dad will be antsy to see his Dodgers try and beat my Sox. Oh, just a note, but in the world series season the Dodgers played the Sox in Chicago (one of the games, the Sox came back on Brazoban in the 9th with the Sox winning in walk-off fashion with an AJP double).

Balta, you coming out to any of the games in Anaheim?

Thats one hell of a week Rex. Keep it up!!!

If the Sox were going to trade Quentin to the Reds it sure as heck wouldn't be for Griffey. In fact, where would he even play? The Sox don't exactly have an opening on the current roster for another outfielder (unless they move one of there other outfielders and I wouldn't trade Swisher or Dye for Griffey).

I'll be at a couple Angels/Sox games and than one of the Giants game so we'll see if I can wake up the bats.

The Cool Kids Do they have an album or anything? I've heard a couple singles and love there s*** but can't find anything anywhere.