Chisoxfn

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:42 PM) Judging by what Swisher got and considering he's under contract for 4 years plus an option at a very low level, there is no way you get an A prospect for Cabrera. Maybe a couple of B prospects, maybe. Would Jon Garland have gotten the Sox an A prospect, I think so. Therefor, I think OC does, considering there are many in baseball that believe the Sox got the better of the deal (which would mean his value is > Jon Garland's).

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:40 PM) I still want to see how Richar does. I think he's got the potential to give you an OPS over .800 with good plate discipline. My thinking was, acquire Figgins for CF (and to play elsewhere), and use Swisher at 1B (and have him rotate at other OF spots where necessary). Kendrick could always play at 1B as well though. I would be trying to get the best possible talents and Kendrick is a ridiculous talent. Richar is a major if. I think he either really pans out or he ends up being total s***. Kendrick is going to be good to be anywhere from being good to being one of the best 2nd baseman in baseball history (that is how good of a hitter he is, plus 2nd base is historically a weak position when it comes to offense).

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:33 PM) If we were to go on percentages, they're better bets than the Sox are, that's for sure. You keep bringing up Crede... why? If Crede's at third that means Fields is in AAA, and Fields playing but one more game in AAA would be terrible. He has nothing left to do down there. If you stick Fields in left, that means the Quentin trade was utterly pointless, as he -- like Fields -- has nothing left to do in AAA. You also keep bringing up Cabrera, like he'd bring in an absolute haul at the deadline. I got news for you... Cabrera wouldn't bring back anything more than one B prospect (or a couple of even lesser prospects). Teams aren't going to give up top prospects for an average-ish player who you're only going to have for two months. That's really not my problem. It was stupid for Kenny to make that promise -- when thinking about the long-term health of this franchise, saying "we're going for broke in 2008" is stupid as hell. I don't have to defend what Kenny said to JD or MB, especially if I don't agree with it in the slightest. Keith, you are undervaluing Cabrera. He is not an averagish shortstop. As a whole he is an average offensive player, but all the other things he does, including the fact that he does it from shortstop makes him an above average player. I'm not going to say the Sox are going to get a boatload of prospects for him but they shouldn't deal him unless they got an A and B prospect, especially given the fact that if they hold onto him they should (barring some sort of a disaster of a season from OC) get 2 picks for him when he signs elsewhere.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:27 PM) You're funny. I didn't say they would do it, but that is what I'd open the bidding at. I also don't think the Angels are going to be serious players for Konerko anymore, not after they made the moves they did. The only way the Angels would start dealing for a bat at 1st would be if they were able to unload one of there high priced outfielders and I highly doubt the Angels are going to take Garret Anderson or Sarge Jr off the Halos hands (unless of course the Angels). However, If the Sox were to deal Konerko I'd happily take Juan Rivera (with Crede entering the discussion if the Angels really wanted him) and pencil him in CF with Swisher moving to 1b. Obviously I'd like Willets too (I think his year was a fluke but I'd take my chances on him if he didn't cost a ton, but the Angels would probably move Rivera to get rid of his 4-5M contract, not that it is a ton of money, but it is more than Willits makes). If the Angels didn't want to give Adenhart, I would ask for Saunders & Santana in a deal (plus a good position player/prospect). Or I would accept Weaver and a position player/prospect (if the Angels preferred to hold onto Adenhart).

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:22 PM) I also think Lance has some potential and is certainly now among the best or the best pitching prospect. He still can improve, but I did like his Sept start against the Royals (it was one of the few games that I watched after July), But I had the sense that a lot of people were down on him, though he may have just been in the shadow of DLS, Gio, and co. We can only hope that as Buerhle came through in the shadows of Kip Wells, Jon Garland (who panned out), Aaron Myette, Matt Ginter, and Lorenzo Barcelo....that Lance Broadway can do the same (outplaying Gio/DSL/etc).

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:16 PM) Figgins and Adenhart would be the 2 main pieces I'd target in a Konerko deal. Maybe a swap of Rivera and Crede could be something that could be looked at as well. But we do have plenty of options here, even though anything is unlikely to happen. Howie Kendrick and Adenhart.

I saw the Kingdom last night and damn did it freaking rock.

I think we can safely say that barring a move that puts Swisher at 1st, we can put an end to any Crisp rumors.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 04:15 PM) Not to pick on you here, but it seemed that the Soxtalk concensus a few months ago was that Broadway was never going to be anything special. Is the next Soxtalk trend going to be building Broadway as the next savior of the White Sox. Don't pencil me in that group, I really like Broadway and have said as much publicly. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people but I sure as hell haven't seen many people aside from myself and a couple others say much anything positive about Lance.

I got to be honest, at this point, unless it is coming from Levine or it is a press release odds are I don't buy into the rumors I hear surrounding the Sox anymore. Kenny keeps things pretty tight for the most part and I'm guessing that is why we never hear anything about the deals that actually happen where as the deals that don't happen are probably semi intentional leaks that happen after the fact (with the exception of what went down at the winter meetings).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:05 PM) Just an exercise...no particular order implied here. Cabrera - 8 home runs Swisher - 25 home runs Thome - 40 home runs Konerko - 30 home runs Dye - 30 home runs Fields - 30 home runs Pierzynski - 10 home runs Quentin - 25 home runs? Richar - 10 home runs Being pretty conservative overall except assuming a full season for Thome...That right there would come to 208 home runs. 25Hr's for Quentin may be pushing it a bit. I think he's capable of doing that, but even at his peak I don't see him as much more than 30 HR guy. I'd probably push more towards 17-20 HR's in the CY. However, I think on other guys you were relatively conservative.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Jan 2, 2008 -> 11:52 PM) I don't know, Michigan, Penn State, Illinois, and Northwestern also suck this year. Iowa is horrid. I wouldn't be stunned if they were dead last.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:33 PM) Isnt that the KF philosophy every year? Broadway, McCullough, Poreda...? They like the college guys because they have no leverage in negoitiations, it is either sign or play independent ball for a percentage of the money. Fields and Borchard being the exceptions to that rule, but their leverage was another sport, not going back into the draft. The major difference is at #8 you are also talking about a guy that projects as a potential #1.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:21 PM) Well, this is the kind of move that allows a team to reach the postseason iff absolutely everything goes right. The rotation itself is a question mark right now, but I see Contreras as a huge wild card right now. If he pitches well, the team could be in for a surprise season; if not, the Sox are screwed. If Jose is 100% you are right, the Sox may very well be able to make a lot of noise. I highly doubt he is, but it is a possibility.

QUOTE(Allsox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:20 PM) From what I'm hearing, the Sox may put Swisher in CF (A position he's never played consistently and played there last yr only because the other guy was hurt so let's put him out there! Woo-Hoo!) and they may lead him off (A spot he hasn't hit in). I just don't get it. Yes, he had a great OBP but he's best at the #2 or #6 slot cuz of his ability to put the ball into play and drive in runs. If they don't trade Crede (Which the Sox would get 50 cents on the dollar for with his back) and slot Fields in LF, we're looking at the slowest OF in all of baseball in '08 for a pitching staff that has only 2 guys that consistently strike out guys (Jenks, Vazquez). That's not good. Throwing this out there, but the Sox could realistically deal Konerko and not get a first baseman back (with Fields playing 1st and Crede playing 3B). It may not be perfect but with Swisher here you could afford doing that. Plus if you are able to get a legit 2nd baseman and leadoff hitter in the deal as well a darn good pitcher I'd be all for the move. Would the Angels move Howie Kendrick and a starting pitching prospect for Konerko (I know the Sox have Richar, but Kendrick is ridiculously good). I'm not necessarily saying that is all the Sox get, but you could get the 2nd baseman for the future (and a guy who is projected to win a batting title sometime in his career) and present plus someone for your rotation. Say you get Adenhart, Kendrick, and Juan Rivera (I throw this name out there so the Sox have an option in case no one plays center, plus the Angels shed one of there outfield spots....if people would prefer Willits, that is fine). I know that is a lot of talent from the Angels perspective and they have added bats like Hunter but it is still a move they could easily afford. Again, people may jump on it because the Sox have Richar, but good lord, if you could get Kendrick...umm yeah.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:18 PM) He is the #8 pick in June. I'm thinking the Sox will take the best collegiate pitcher available with the #8 pick. I'm going to hope the San Diego pitcher falls to them.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:18 PM) He is the #8 pick in June. I'm thinking the Sox will take the best collegiate pitcher available with the #8 pick.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:17 PM) I don't see what changes from 2008 to 2009. Will anyone from the farm be coming up that will make us a contender? We basically know what we're going to be getting from Swisher -- we're going to get a player in his prime, an .850-.900 OPS player who's certainly going to be very valuable. But I don't see how this move affects 2009 anymore than it affects 2008. Even if the Sox made a ton of deadline-day moves in place for 2009, the players the Sox would be getting back would be prospects, not guys who would be ready for 'big-time' in 2009. Teams aren't going to be trading the Sox 24 year-old players who have already shown they can 'stick-it' in the big leagues for the Paul Konerko's, Jermaine Dye's and Jim Thome's of our roster. By the way, I agree a lot with your last sentence that it may not make us contenders. However, Kenny can obviously use some of those chips as well as the financial flexibility to maybe do some other things. It certainly isn't ideal, but I can think that there is at least a chance that Kenny is thinking this way (although I'm sure he's still exploring ways to upgrade the 08 club, but it does seem evident that any move he makes isn't going to be just to help the squad this year).

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:17 PM) I don't see what changes from 2008 to 2009. Will anyone from the farm be coming up that will make us a contender? We basically know what we're going to be getting from Swisher -- we're going to get a player in his prime, an .850-.900 OPS player who's certainly going to be very valuable. But I don't see how this move affects 2009 anymore than it affects 2008. Even if the Sox made a ton of deadline-day moves in place for 2009, the players the Sox would be getting back would be prospects, not guys who would be ready for 'big-time' in 2009. Teams aren't going to be trading the Sox 24 year-old players who have already shown they can 'stick-it' in the big leagues for the Paul Konerko's, Jermaine Dye's and Jim Thome's of our roster. I'm saying Kenny can now say he's going for things, while quietly he's preparing for 09. He knows this off-season didn't go as planned and now he has begun planning for 09 (hence the Alexi signing, Quentin trade and to an extent the Swisher deal as this is a move that gives the Sox a legit middle of the order in a couple years...ie Swisher/Fields/Quentin and hopefully another bat). Kenny can now, if things go awful, swing deals for Dye/Konerko in the off-season for pieces that he truly likes and again have a s***load of money to throw around come the off-season. Basically put he can hand pick a few more guys for his squad which will give him another shot at going for things in 09. I'm not saying it is ideal but it is a legitimate possibility. Now you could say, why not do it now and I also understand JD has his no trade clause (but if the Sox came to him I think he'd end up accepting a deal), but Kenny is still going to give things a shot. Hell, I wouldn't be stunned if Kenny used some cash on a couple one year contracts to guys like Colon/Garcia (maybe throw out some incentives and option years if things go okay).

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:15 PM) I cheked out the A's boards and none of them are thrilled with this deal and all have great things to say about Swish. Assuming he starts the year with the Sox, there is a good chance I will invest in a Swisher jersey. I f***ing love the way this guy plays the game and he has a boatload of pure ability.

QUOTE(yoyozuna @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:13 PM) Just an FYI, I called my buddy in SF (He's a die hard A's fan). He didn't hear about the deal yet. I told him and he was pissssssssssed. He loves Swisher and says that they better have gotten some "studs" in return. I chuckled and told him they were! lol I always think its good to get another teams perspective. Like when we traded Jon G. and there were some UPSET fans but not as upset as the fans in LAA. People are still livid out here about the OC deal from the Angels perspective.

QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:00 PM) But if floyd/danks fail, i don't think that it would've been Gio and DLS that we would've gone to this year anyway. I can flat out tell you that Kenny is a major Egbert backer. Aside from Heads there may not be many more that like Egbert as much as Kenny has. Kenny has also been very under the radar about that.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:51 AM) I'll ask again but does anyone know how good of a cf Swish is? I honestly don't recall see him playing center, so I'm very curious. He has a strong arm and when he was coming up was 5 tool but with Kotsay in CF the A's shied away from using him in Cf when he first came up. I honestly couldn't tell you, but It will be probably somewhere in between Brian Anderson and Rob Mackowiak (basically he could be anywhere from one of the best to one of the worse, LOL).

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) A lot? Almost no publications picked the Sox to go post-season. Now on here, I wasn't around, so I don't know. Were Soxtalkers saying the 2005 team was post-season bound? I remember a lot of us were saying that if Garland/Garcia/Contreras pitch like they were capable that this team would be stellar. It turned out that all of those things happened and the Sox kicked butt. People were really in love with the 05 off-season (I know I was). The only potential knock was the fact that value wise the Sox got there asses handed to them in the Carlos Lee trade (but the extra money helped the SOx out big time).

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) It seems pretty clear to me that Fields is going to go for a young pitcher. I think that is the next move. You could be onto something. Than again I could also see one of the Sox vets heading for some young pitching.