Chisoxfn

If the O's can get good packages for Bedard and Tejada (as well as Roberts). I"m talking major league prospects to go around there other guys they could find themselves in very good shape 2 years from now (they are coming off one awesome draft).

If you can get Harden for a package surrounded by Egbert and prospects or Broadway and prospects you do it. But if it costs Danks/Gio/DLS than I think you pass.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) I think it's definitely the case. This is also vintage Kenny. The deals Kenny seems to do best on are the ones where he deals one minor leaguer for a guy who has a high ceiling but has seen his stock fall a bit. That didn't work out great when it came to Andrew Sisco, but look at a lot of his best trades and these types of deals tend to greatly favor the Sox (I do believe Sox scouts/Kenny have a good eye for these type of guys). Hopefully Quentin is 100% and will be able to really turn things around. I also want the Sox to be patient with him. I'm also exstatic to hear they would consider moving Paulie. Afterall, there are almost zero bats out there (Cabrera is an amazing bat, but aside from that teams would have to give up a ton of cash for Jones or Rowand and neither of them are the consistent bat that Paulie is nor do I think he's a risk to be named on the Mitchell report like a certain SS from the Orioles that is on the market). I also must say that while I'm not a big Owings fan, it is hard to argue against a rookie who posted his numbers in a hitters park all while being in the midst of a penant race. He has a good build for a pitcher and solid stuff but he definitely doesn't project as a #1 or #2. However, if the Sox were able to pick up a good young reliever, a solid young first baseman, and a guy like Owings (who would make the rotation better) and than use some of there excess pitching prospects to acquire a young front line starter (Dan Haren/Joe Blanton type) I'd be all for it (with the Sox also moving Contreras for cap relief). Basically give up 2-3 of your pitching prospects plus one of your major league relievers and Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney (I'm not saying you can get Haren for that, but dangle that package out there to a number of teams with good young pitchers and see if one of them bites). If you have Jackson at 1st, Quentin in RF, and Rowand or Jones in CF (Dye moving to left) with Pena moving into the pen (him/Linebrink/Jenks are good from the right side and you still have Thornton/Logan from the left with MacDougall going in a deal for a starter). Solid young lineup, with some pop (Jones/Dye/Thome should hit for plenty of power still). Than have a rotation with Javy/Buehrle/Haren or Blanton or other young good starter/Owings/Remaining 5th prospect (Egbert/Danks/Gio/Broadway/Floyd) and Id say you'd have a shot at contending if everything goes right (and if it doesn't you'd have a team that should be on the upswing and even better in 09).

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 04:52 PM) I really, really, really doubt that KW went and got Quentin to platoon with anyone. He's starting in LF, unless he's flipped in another trade. And Phil Rogers seems to be the only person so far who doesn't like the trade. He also has a type in his little article - he thinks the magic left after the All-Star break in 2005? I'm pretty sure he meant 2006. If Kenny gave up our best position prospect with the mind of getting Quentin as a platoon guy I'd throw up. I just have to hope that isn't the case. Otherwise I love the deal because the Sox are getting a guy whose ready now and is a better bet of being a solid big leaguer (I say that because Carter needs to be great offensively to stick, since he is weak defensively while Quentin, even if he is just solid offensively will be solid because of his defensive ability and base running).

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 02:54 PM) Love this deal. I love Carter, but Quentin is damn good. Hopefully he isn't trade bait. Seriously, I can't get past how excited I am about this move. It is the exact type of move I've been calling for (where you get a good value for a player, a guy who has a lot of talent, and it isn't a short-term move as Quentin should be a very good long term big leaguer). Get me a big name Cfer' and than try to swing Paulie and I"d be totally happy (especially if they add to the rotation).

Awesome. They can negotiate throughout the season. You just aren't able to apply any portion of the signing bonus to this years cap.

Gosh darn it I just love this move. The Sox now have 3 young position players with a good level of upside in there everyday lineup (Quentin, Richar, Fields). I am actually hoping that Quentin will play RF with Jermaine Dye sliding to LF. If Kenny can acquire a quality leadoff hitter/cfer I'd be quite happy with the retooling of the lineup (the pitching staff is still a question-mark and I hope Kenny has a trick or two left up his sleeve when it comes to that). Please get a quality leadoff hitter/cfer Kenny. He also still has Crede/Uribe/MacDougall to offer up to squads. I hope the Yanks gets Johan which than enables Coco Crisp to be available in CF (I know a lot of people aren't fans of him, but I'd be perfectly content getting him assuming the price isn't any more than MacDougall and a Kyle McCulloch).

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 07:19 PM) I don't care how they portray into the NFL, and your accuracy on that statement is questionable. The Heisman, or who is a better player than whom, has NOTHING to do with the nfl or draft status. And Tebow is easily the best player in the nation and is having one of the best qb seasons in the history of college football. And three losses? Brennan played me and 10 friends on defense week to week and barely won many of them. They play Florida's schedule and they have more than 3 losses. If the Heisman vote is even close the voters should be ashamed of themselves. Jones sounded like a complete moron. I think Tebow has had the best season, with McFadden possibly being the best football player (in the sense he's a bit more complete and projects better while still being a great college player at the same time). I'd give the vote to Tebow as statistically he's done somethings no QB has ever done and he's done it while playing elite competition. I would have had no problem going with Brennan if it weren't for him being injured for a couple games and his numbers suffering during that span. Tebow just had a ridiculous year.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) Agreed and I believe one of the posters here has a quote in his signature from Guillen where he comments on this issue. Guillen said something like, it's not about the speed of a leadoff guy, it's his ability to get on base. I was really happy when Ozzie made that quote too because it was a bit of a diversion from the past Ozzie. I'm hoping Ozzie learned a lot about the x's and o's of the game this past season and that we will see a much improved in game/strategic coach because i Do believe Ozzie has a knack from getting the best out of his guys most of the time and I think he also has a good approach in that he is confident in what he does (whether you buy into it or not, you got to have confidence from the guys at the top and neither Kenny or Ozzie lack that).

QUOTE(Beltin'Bill @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 07:36 PM) Insight? Not being a smart alec, but I have heard a lot of points to offer concern over Jones, including: -Young in age, but not time served. His body has already experienced over 10 years of service time -One of the more overrated center fielders over the past few years. Does not get to nearly the number of balls he used to and has been handed GG the past few years based on reputation alone -heavier than in years past -feasts on average/mediocre pitching -has really gone for the long ball swing (see last year's numbers) I am too lazy/busy to look this stuff up, but I was hoping someone could refute the negativity. Sounds like Boras might be having trouble doing the same but maybe I am not reading enough articles. I am not an INsider, you know. Jones was phenomenal in CF this year. He shed pounds and gained speed and range. Even prior to that he was still well above average, he just wasn't playing at his elite status (when he was younger, Andruw may be the very best to ever play the game defensively in CF). Offensively some felt that his lighter frame actually contributed to his lighter average. I think it had to do more with him pressing for a contract and getting into some bad habits offensively. That is just my hunch and I would hope the Sox have scouts/coaches looking hard over Jones swing from this year to last year and swinging if there were minor things that changed and led to his regression at the plate (if those things weren't physical than I'd be all about signing him because I think he'll be the best value, along with Rowand in this market). I happen to think Rowand made adjustments and will be a very good player the next couple years (he won't be amazing by all means, but he'll be an above average cf'er who does pretty much everything well and nothing truly great).

Chw, please refrain from using that word in the future.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 05:45 PM) I thought that's exactly what I had written. We're probably the two biggest Rex fans on this site....but I'm sure people will blame him for this. I hope they enjoy Kyle Orton. Oh god, I hated Griese (he's a solid back up, he's just not a starter) and I am scared about Orton. Orton has a slow release and takes forever to really muster up the arm strength. Rex isn't a guarantee but he's made a ton of strides since reclaiming the starting job and has all the tools you want (with the exception of size and additional speed). He is now making plays when everything goes wrong and being much more willing to take a sack or go with his checkdown guy. Plus he makes more than a handful of throws that just leave you speachless (in the sense that he throws the ball to the perfect spot and it is on passes where most guys couldn't even attempt the throw). I thought you were saying that RB was the biggest need and not the oline, but I guess I was wrong (I think the RB situation gets solved by fixing the oline situation). I'm not even that concerned about QB (but like you said, we are Rex's biggest supporters).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) As much as I like how Peterson played in the first half, he absolutely sucked in the 2nd half. There were 3 big plays where he couldn't break a single tackle. Most people will complain that the Bears biggest need is at QB, but I think RB is a much bigger issue (along with all the other glaring issues). Come on, the offensive line is by far the Bears biggest need. QB doesn't even rank on the list. Rex is the QB. Peterson showed exactly why he is an outstanding 3rd down back and nothing more. Benson with a good line is fully capable of being a solid back. The injury is the only issue and I still wouldn't draft a RB till the 2nd round. I'd probably take Oline, RB, oline in the first 3rd's. The tackle going in the first round and the guard in the 3rd round. Behind Oline, the next biggest need are the DT's and the safeties. I happen to think the Bears will hope Harris/Dvoraceck come back healthy (and than sign a veteran run stuffer to come in, kind of like what Ian Scott was for them in the previous seasons). Hell, WR is a far more pressing need than anything else. I hope they resign Berrian, keep Moose, work on getting Hester more involved and sign vet that has good hands (you can always find solid vet WR's that get cut somewhere and still have something left). I'd like to draft a WR, but I just think the other things are more pressing (unless the Bears opt to sign a vet RB, but that could be expensive) in which case I have no problem taking a WR in rd 2.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) This is what cracks me up about trying to pick the best conference. How do we know the SEC was good? How do you know the Big 12 was solid? Seems to me the big 12 is just as good as the big ten - a couple of "top" teams (even though only one team truly proved its better - OU) and the rest were crap. The SEC was the same way. Rankings mean diddly crap because at the beginning of the year the SEC had some highly ranked teams, who then played and beat up each other. So even if Team A sucks and beats Team B who also sucks, if Team B happens to be ranked then it looks like a "good loss" to a "good team." With no reference whatsoever, its hard to compare conferences and decide who is better - unless there's a top matchup, like a Texas-OSU, in the non-conference part of the schedule. And after this season I'm officially just as good at predicting how good/bad teams are than the "experts." I think this season more than any other has proven that there are no "dominant" programs - with the reduction in scholarships more talent is going to mid-level teams, opening up more and more chances to beat "top" teams. It much more has to do with the fact that USC, Ohio State, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, and to an extent LSU were very young teams (this list of teams makes up a vast majority of the national title contenders over the past 5-7 years). Next year those teams will be absolutely prime to dominate and we will see a number of awesome teams in college football (most of those teams have damn near everyone coming back and should be prime to have a shot at running the table).

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 04:55 PM) Grossman wasn't good in the second half, but he was about the 8th or 9th worst thing the Bears had going out there... the least of their problems... Overall he had a pretty good game... The O-Line is terrible, and you can't shoot yourself in the foot with false starts... The D-Line was giving away 5 yard gifts all game. The only thing that makes our O-line blocking look good is the blocking of our WR -- At least they catch everything thrown their way (Oops) The offensive gameplan went into prevent once the game entered the 2nd quarter. I don't know why they even count on running the ball with the O-line/running back combo we've got. It was going to take a little creativity to run the table, which is what the Bears needed. Outside of the first quarter/drive, we didn't really see anything that wasn't pulled from a decades old playbook. Peterson was admirable and I really do think he's proven that he's an awesome 3rd down back. But he isn't a starter. I continue to say no one can run behind that oline (and I'm really bummed Ced was hurt because given a good oline I think he can be a very productive runner when teamed with Peterson). I can't even get into the play calling, the Bears had countless chances to put the game away and Turner acted as if the game was over.

QUOTE(AssHatSoxFan @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 04:28 PM) that's the 2nd screen busted because of poor blocking The oline is so f***ing terrible. They out run everyone and don't actually block the cb's. It should have been a TD and it was at least twice in the game where I saw the guards completely f*** up and not even make a block on a screen pass (they completely out run the play). Rex played his ass off, got the living s*** kicked out of him, made countless great throws (he also missed on a couple throws in the second half where it looked like the wind was really screwing with him or something) but more importnatly made no mistakes. The WR's didn't help him with countless drops (after all, they do lead the league in dropped passes) and the offensive line continued to play absolutely terrible. This doens't even get into the fact that he was completely handicapped by the worse f***ing OC in the league. Defensively I think the defense has actually played its best the past two weeks (they missed a lot of tackles again today but they are at least gang tackling again, something they didn't do for about 8 weeks). Mark Anderson has played terrible all year but Ogunleye has been brilliant, Brown is solid, and well not much to say about the lack of anything from the interior lineman (Bears have to hope Harris gets healthy in the off-season and that Dusty can come back along with the Bears signing some vet dtackle that can play a lot on rushing downs...ie what Ian Scott was for them). The big changes/moves should be 100% made at the line (I'm talking brand new offensive line, at least two first day picks on the line, plus a signing). Kreutz and Tait can stay (not that Tait really deserves it with the goal of finding a LT in the draft which will let you slide Tait to the RT spot). Ricky Manning Jr. gone, a new safety in (Arch obviously gone), and than resign Rex, Berrian and Briggs (the emphasis on Berrian and Rex as I feel both are really indispensible in the sense the Bears really have no other options at QB nor do they have anything at WR). They still have solid LB's, but I'd like Briggs to be back (I understand if he isn't though, cause I'd take a stud olineman over Briggs right now). I can't emphasize the fact that Rex (if he continues to play like he has and build upon these past couple games) should be the Bears QB. He's making plays under pressure and when he has time he is absolutely amazing (he throws such good balls).

I am a major Nady fan. I'd love him on the squad but I don't know which left-handed batter the club would be platooning him with.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) It's about f***ing time. St. Clair should be starting over Miller, as well. Miller isn't expected to play due to injury so St. Clair will start.

Arch is benched...McGowan to start at safety.

LETS GO BEARS!!! LETS GO REXY!!!! LETS GO DEFENSE!!!! LETS GO OFFENSE!!! LETS GO HESTER!!!! LETS GO COACHING STAFF!!!! WIN THIS f***ING GAME!!!!!

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 11:27 AM) USC's defense is phenomenal. If they continue to improve, they can definitely be a national title contender. They should be. They have a lot of talent and a very good college coach. Say what you want about Floyd in the NBA, the guy is legit in the college ranks (did an outstanding job at ISU where it is hard to recruit and now he's at USC with new facilities and just tons of athletes in the Cali area that make it much easier to recruit). USC should be a national power in basketball moving forward (they may still be a year or two away, and OJ Mayo may actually ruin that if he ends up getting the school in trouble, but aside from that they are heading in the right direction). It will make Pac 10 basketball even better as USC/UCLA will be a ridiculous rivalry (UCLA is a powerhouse), plus you have Washington and Oregon who are turning into quite the basketball schools and Stanford seems to be getting back on track and than of course there is Arizona who is suffering from a bit of a down period but they still have talent and a rich history.

QUOTE(shipps @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 11:12 AM) Dude this is not the powerhouse USC of all the yesteryears,the big ten was down but so are all of the other conferences with the exception of the SEC.If Stanford can beat USC along with Jim Harbaaaaaw, Illini has a pretty damn good chance with the playmakers they have(Benn,Mendenhall both to be first rounders eventually). And a QB that can't throw the ball. USC's defense is quicker and better than any defense in the big ten (yes...that includes TOSU) and there offense is faster and far more athletic than any offense in the big ten. I should note that I think Illinois has quite a few very good athletes, but I don't think they have enough good football players to win (especially at the QB position where Juice is far too one dimensional to beat a USC team that is fully capable of both putting up points and stopping the opposition from putting up points). No doubt USC choked massively to Stanford and they weren't playing football like they currently are. Right now USC is playing awesome (the defense is healthy and they have John David Booty healthy and it is making a major difference). Oh and you guys need to remember this is all coming from one major USC hater. USC's other loss was a tough loss to the best team in the country at the time (in the hardest place to play in the country...ie Oregon). This season I feel the Big 12, SEC, and Pac 10 were all pretty solid conferences. Big 12 in the sense that I don't buy into the Kansas and Missouri being horrid teams. I think all three are good teams, with Mizzu being a very good team (top 10 for sure, Kansas a top 10 this season due to it being a down season in college football and OU being a legitimate top 5 team that had one awful loss thanks to there QB going down). SEC has LSU (who is ridiculously talented and didn't really have a bad loss, problem is they had 2 losses), Florida (they are quite good), Tennessee (legit top 15 team), and Georgia (down the stretch Georgia has been a top 4 team and deserve there ranking every bit). The Pac 10 has ASU (who is not quite a top 10 team, but for sure a top 15 team thanks to a strong defense; I'd actually say ASU and Illinois are similar in that neither one is a complete team in my mind but both are solid but unable to compete against the premiere teams), USC (i already made my case) and at this point they no longer have Oregon and Cal but for most of the season both of those teams were legit top 15 teams (Cal absolutely collapsed around mid-season, but when USC played Cal, Cal was still a good team, same with Oregon who was the best team in the country two weeks ago). The Big 10 has Ohio State, who is a legit top 10 team, borderline top 5 team who happened to play an easy schedule (not there fault that the conference was down this year) and due to other teams taking s***s they were able to get the National Championship bid (again I don't fault them, it just happened to work out for em). Michigan is a talented team but injuries to Henne/Hart and just an overall negative vibe from the App State game makes them no better than Top 20 (and that may be a stretch). Wiscy is a borderline top 25 team (they are a decent team, but not a good one). Illinois is the 2nd best team in that conference and after that I really dont' think you have anyone very good (Indy is the next best team and they are completely bowl worthy and a top 35 team but come on, just look at the conference, that isn't strong).

3 Crede for lfer, reliever, or starter Macdougall or Thornton for a piece FA Signing Their is a chance Crede/Reliever go together in a trade and in that case my 3rd move would be a Juan Uribe trade (although I don't think the Sox are going to be able to move him by the end of the meetings).

I love Milton Bradley. I'd take him on the cheap, especially if the Sox signed another outfielder and than let Bradley play left (with our CFer here). In a pinch I'd just stick Bradley and OC at the top of the order (Bradley when healthy typically gets on base).

QUOTE(shipps @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) USC might sleep on my Illini brethren. Jeff, I hope the Illinis play USC so I can see the Illini get the absolute s*** kicked out of them. The Big 10 was so bad this year, its a joke that they'll have 2 BCS teams (Illinois is not deserving of a BCS bid). I am also completely against OSU in the National Championship game but I will at least admit with 1 win and the fact that they were top dogs most of the season that I really can't say that Virginia Tech deserves to be in the game ahead of them. I think USC and LSU are better teams but both have 2 losses to OSU's 1. Bottom line, OSU should be in there. I don't think they are that good but they won the games and they now get the reward of getting a national tv beatdown.