Chisoxfn

I got to be honest, I'd hate a Swisher for Bedard deal. It would be the opposite of what I'd want considering Bedard would be long gone in a year.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:23 AM) Yeah he is very good despite the WHIP and Rick Peterson has been wrong about him to this point. That said, I wouldn't want to be the team investing 5 years 90 million in him. I don't believe his health will hold up. Generally I wouldn't make the bet about a lot of pitchers except for the Jake Peavy's of the world. IIRC, didn't Peavy have some arm issues in the past? I think the type of guys I'd be banking on are the Joba Chamberlains of the world. I also love the hell out of Phillip Hughes mechanics (who knew he'd pull his hammy though). I love big pitchers who get a lot of there velocity from leg strength.

With a solid rotation this is a playoff contending team, no doubt about it. I'm guessing Kenny is going to go into the season hoping like hell that the solid starter or two are already on the roster by the names of Gavin Floyd/John Danks/Lance Broadway/Jack Ebert/Jose Contreras. They may or may not be, but if the Sox end up with 4 starters that throw around 200 innings and a 5th that somehow gives the Sox a semblance of a chance (even if it is every 10 days as opposed to every 5; ie he sucks balls half of his starts but gives them a shot the other half) and they would be contenders. Really the season is going to be tied to how accurate the Sox are when it comes to there young pitchers and Jose Contreras. Obviously other s*** could blow up in there faces, but the true question-marks and real areas of concern (on paper) are the 3/4/5 starters of the rotation and if they pitch up to there capabalities/tools you will be talking about the Sox as a playoff contender, maybe even more. The odds of that happening are probably slim, especially given everyone having serious doubts, given the fact that the Sox have had very few young starters succeed over the past 10 years, but hey, it could happen.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:04 AM) quiet the big 10 fans must be sleeping....I would rather have Todd Reesing or Chase Daniels over Juice Williams any day of the week. Juice Williams blows. I'm a big 10 fan too, but he is so over-rated. He is a great talent and a horrid QB. Thanks to him and the one dimensional Illinois offense my Hawkeyes were able to get a win over the Illini. McGee is the better long term answer. Illinois is definitely heading in the right direction. They are getting the best talent in the country on a regular basis thanks to Zook. While Zook will never be a national champion coach, he has Illinois at a level they have never been at (I know Turner took them to a rose bowl, but they didn't recruit like this) and that alone will make them consistently competitive and for all you know at that point the Illini may be able to get another coach that could maybe bring them to the next level). But good god, Juice throws about as good as I throw and he is a far cry from Mike Vick in terms of athletism. I give him credit, but thankfully for Illini fans they had Mendenhall, Benn and a pretty athletic defense.

Yes, if things go smoothly I can switch jobs this summer and actually have work-life balance.

QUOTE(Sonik22 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 10:08 PM) That movie is sooooo ridiculously good! I wish i saw it in theaters! I only own two dvd's, Black Hawk Down, and The Kingdom. So worth it. I didn't hear much about it when it was in theatres, I wanted to see it than but no one else I knew was too interested, so yesterday I was thinking holy s*** this is f***ing awesome the entire time I watched it.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:00 AM) dont they lose a bunch on defense....and to be honest Colt Mccoy sucks. I could be wrong. I watch a couple Texas games a year because they are one of the few college teams I don't mind and I swear I heard the announcers say they will have most of there good players back and are going to be a title contender next year. I know USC will probably be #1 and Texas Tech/Mizzu will be top 10 when the season is done, imo. Big 12 will be the best conference in the country.

God damn those dumb f***ing turnovers. Jesus. What a piss poor loss. This team is like the Bears, they give you hope and build a lead and than choke like cheap whores down the stretch. They should be 5-0 under Boyland...instead 3-2.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:13 PM) They played Indiana tough yesterday, but I guess if you give Iowa a few weeks, they'll become...well...Iowa again. It is so depressing how bad Michigan's program is come. Curse of Steve Fisher. That was because Justin Johnson went Reggie Miller on them. Iowa battles, but they flat out don't have the scoring to do s***. They wouldn't even win the WAC or some other lame ass conference.

Aside from Charles, isn't Texas practically returning everyone as well?

QUOTE(Gbubbs @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:44 PM) I would take his stuff but not his head or character over Buehrle. I might, maybe take his head over Javy. But not 07 javy. I completely agree with that. Obviously something isn't necessarily all there or going right when a guy with Bonderman's stuff isn't perennially contending for the CY Young. However, that isn't to say a guy can't make progress and turn into that front line pitcher. Bondy is still very young, despite having 5 seasons under his belt and is a guy that any contender would like to have in his rotation. Also, if it makes anyone feel better, I completely feel that the Tigers rotation is way over-rated. Aside from Verlander and to a lesser extent Bonderman (because I think he could very well be a total stud) they don't have anyone that truly scares me (Willis could surprise the AL for a season, but he could also get the living snot knocked out of him, especially if his velocity continues to slip and well Kenny Rogers is only getting older and its just a matter of time till his ERA takes a major crap, plus we already know he isn't likely to stay healthy for a full season). Robertson is over-rated as can be and they don't have Miller anymore (Thank GOODNESS). The TIgers offense is definitely stacked though and they still have Todd Jones as a closer (YUCK) so right now I'd say they have some sexier names in the rotation, a sexier lineup (although the Sox lineup isn't too shabby) and in all reality not that much better of a team. Cleveland is a far more complete team, imo, given that CC, Carmona, Westbrook is a very solid 1-3 and the tribe can hope Cliff Lee pans out (which is more likely than Rogers having a good season) and some young prospects that could slide into the rotation (plus they have Roid man Byrd).

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 11:07 PM) You've got to think that the clubhouse is going to be a lot looser and much funner this year. You've already got guys like Buehrle and Pierzynski, and now you add the Aaron Rowand-esque personality of Nick Swisher. And on top of that, I read that Fields and Quentin were good friends. And of course you got Papa Thome, the great story teller. If Ramirez makes the roster, then Contreras has got a new friend, and Bobby Jenks is a bit of a personality himself. Plus Orlando Cabrera who is hillarious and just the ultimate team guy.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 10:14 PM) You like them because it is not our team. Contreras, Danks, and Floyd are finished/not good enough yet respectively because, emotionally invested, you watched them do poorly last year. Bonderman, however, is great. He's Bonderman, that guy who everyone's talked about for a few years and he's gonna be great, so he's very good. Never mind that he was bad last year and in 5 full years as a starter he's had exactly 1 year that was at least league average. He's good, he's to be feared, he's Bonderman. Oh, and Willis, too. He almost won a Cy Young. Last year didn't happen. And Kenny Rogers is fine he's great. He started 11 games last year. Contreras, that guy is old, he's done. He's 48, really. Sure he was pretty awesome when he was like 46, but he's 48 now. Rogers is only 43. I'd take Bonderman's stuff over every person in the Sox rotation not named Javy, but I will admit his numbers have been nothing but mediorce. Than again a lot of people said similar things about Josh Beckett for a couple years, especially his first season or so in Boston where he was again mediocre. Everyone knew he had amazing stuff but between blister trouble and inconsistencies he wasn't dominate. Than all of a sudden last season rolled out around and he officially emerged. I know one thing, Bonderman's numbers may not have been great, but I and every other baseball person would love to have him in the front 3 of your rotation and if the Tigers are down on him I'd love to find a way to make an interdivision trade.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:52 PM) OK, now with a bit of research, prospects (pitching) that are better than DLS: Hughes, Chamberlain, Cueto, Bailey, Kershaw, Carrasco, Morales, Price, Porcello, Volstad, Bucholz, both Millers, McGee, Gio, Elbert...? Adenhart, Kennedy, Scherzer

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:46 PM) Honestly, I think Swisher may end up being the most popular player on the Sox and will be a all star caliber player for a few seasons at least. He's pretty damn good. I completely agree. I think he joins Buehrle and Paulie as the faces as the franchise and definitely gives the Sox a bat to replace Thome in a year (if Thome is gone) or Paulie/Dye (if they opt to trade them). Either way the Sox have the early makings of a potential 3-4-5 of the future with Swish/Quentin/Fields.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:20 PM) No I'm being serious here. It was his 1st full season in the minors, and his K/9 ratios indicate he's a pretty dang good prospect. There's not many other prospects out there who have the FB / Slider combo that he has. I think you're seriously underrating him only because 1 - He doesn't have a good 3rd pitch yet (which can be developed) and; 2 - He only reached high A ball at the end of 2007. On the other hand he is in A ball, only has two good pitches, and was 21 at A ball (which isn't necesarrily young). I love the guy to death but there are a great number of pitchers with superior upside in baseball. He was our best option (along with Gio) but by all means he doesn't rank in the top 10 in baseball, the Sox don't have anyone in that category and if they did it would be if Aaron Poreda proved all the doubters wrong and developed great secondary stuff and didn't have his arm fall off.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 08:40 PM) you're right about one thing. if JC shows up, forget about it! let's be real. westbrook and verlander aren't that good. they won't repeat what they did last season. bondy has mental issues often giving up 3 to 4 runs in the 1st inning of every start. the tigers wish they had our pen at this point. zumaya isn't anything special post injury and grilli is just a running joke. i think our pitching is right there with the indians and tigers. especially given linebrink's addition. many aren't expecting much from him but if he shows up with JC, we're in the postseason. i don't think there will be a finer setup-closer duo in the central than linebrink-jenks. Verlander is a f***ing stud.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 08:10 PM) you are being waaay too tough on the White Sox. Chicago is bound to win 83-87 games this year. what will the future hold? we shall see. The Sox were better than the win total from last season (injuries and just many seasons out of players that were below there career norms) and that was before they made additions which improved there team (Linebrink/Cabrera/Swisher are all massive upgrades over the players they are replacing just as you can make a case that Quentin is talent wise a major upgrade over the player he is replacing). Factor that in and if they get production out of 4 of there 5 pitching spots and I'd consider them a definate wild card contender (I don't know if I'd call them a World Series Contender, but if you are in competition you can always find a way to make a trade to get you an extra piece). Stranger things have happened and I'm not about to throw down a ton of money but I can envision ways that the Sox make the playoffs and even win the division. The odds aren't in favor of it happening but I know that the players in play do have the talent to do what is necessary, its just a matter of certain guys reaching there talent much sooner than expected (plus the fact that often times guys never reach there ceiling/talent levels).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:49 PM) Kershaw... Kennedy/Justin Upton/Gio (and I don't think Gio is top 10)/Adenhart/Kendrick. I'd say DSL is a possible top 50 prospect.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 07:41 PM) Ok just for the sake of discussion, who are 10 better prospects in baseball right now than DLS? And what about 10 better pitching prospects also? There are way more than 10 if you ask me.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:55 PM) Does he really believe that this is a championship level team? I did see a quote from Beane that I liked, basically said he knew the writing was on the wall and that they could either continue to be mediocre or retool and try to win it all a year or two from now. I fear there is a chance (and a decent one) that we end up wishing Kenny did that (but I've long said Kenny potcommitted himself this past July and at this point he only has one option and I'm just hoping he is kind of semi planning on going for it, but with a major plan B in mind that will help him retool for 09). And the good part is, technically, Linebrink/Quentin/Swisher/Richar (all of the recent moves) all can factor into 09 and beyond.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:03 PM) We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that. And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC. You underestimate that if at the deadline you get a run on deals that you end up having teams overpay. The past two seasons there really hasn't been a flurry of action but years past there would be massive deals with teams trying to one-up one another which led to teams drastically overpaying. There is no guarantee that it happens again ,but I wouldn't be shocked if a team or two end up getting a little lose with there prospects, especially if they haven't had a shot at a world series in some time (I think Detroit will be willing, Cleveland will as well, given the fact that CC will be due for a fat contract and this may be there best chance at the series; Anaheim is also feeling major heat for falling short and will be willing to make a splash, same with the Dodgers if they are in it and you can bet your butt the Cubs if they are in it will be willing to make moves). So bottom line, I could see this deadline being one where you have a number of teams willing to give up stuff for a commodity and when you get multiple suitors the price will sore. Again I'm dealing in hypotheticals and you guys may be completely right. Either way I know worse case (for the most part, unless OC puts up a Uribe like season) the Sox have 2 #1 picks.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:03 PM) We're getting into the semantics of what an A prospect is, but no, I don't think Jon Garland would net the Sox an A prospect. I consider an A prospect to be one of the top 20 (or so -- this is admittedly a rather arbitrary number) prospects in all of baseball -- could Garland have netted a Justin Upton, a Phillip Hughes, a Clay Buccholz? I'm sorry, but there's no way Garland could net someone like that. And now we're talking about dealing a player at the deadline. So some team is going to give up six years of an A prospect for two months of Orlando Cabrera? Even if I am underselling Cabrera a bit, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Sox get an A prospect for two months of The OC. I consider an A prospect a top 50 prospect. No, he couldn't get a Juston Upton, Phillip Hughes or Clay Bucholtz but last I looked those are top 10 prospects. I've never said Jon would get you the best prospect in all of baseball of one of the best prospects in all of baseball. However, he could get one top 50 and one top 150 prospect. That doesn't necessarily mean Kenny goes after that as we've all seen how he identifies guys he likes and than gets those guys, not necessarily who BA says are the best in a system (whether right or wrong it is his mo). Here's one thing to take into play. Think about what Bureau has said about DSL. The Sox brass must all feel similarly about him as a reliever and if that is what the people close in the org are telling Kenny, don't you think he considers it a no brainer to move a guy that they think is a top notch set up guy (still 3 years away) if it means getting an all star outfielder (and I think Swish will be a perennial all star in Chicago, but I think very very highly of him). I think people underestimate how much your offense takes a hit from playing in Oaktown. Really if we are going to cringe about giving anyone up it should probably be Sweeney (based on the Sox selling low on him) or Gio (since he is more likely to help now and has 3 solid pitches which makes him more projectable in the rotations). I've long said the thing that scares the hell out of me is the Sox rotation, but it was awful last year and I won't deny that Danks/Floyd have talent (afterall they were both at one point A prospects basically by your definition..ie top 20 guys).

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 06:02 PM) Are we talking about at the deadline? That's what I thought was the time frame. I think Cabrera could get a prospect like Gio now, but at the deadline at best we'd get a couple of Sweeneys. Garland would fetch more at the deadline purely due to everyone looking for pitching while there will only be a select few teams looking for a SS. Deep down I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox are out at the deadline that the ANgels end up a calling and reacquire OC for prospects. You may be right, you may not be, but while this past trade deadline teams were a bit more careful when it came to giving up prospects but no one can say that will be the case this deadline. Hell, there are times that a player fetches more at the deadline than he would the off-season before simply because you end up having more teams bidding on a player at one time. Say Swisher was openly on the market, you can bet your ass the A's would end up getting more for him than they did today. In fact, I am openly saying that year from now if the Sox wanted to put him on the market they could do better than what the Sox gave up.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:16 PM) Just a couple of quick points; 1 - He seems to be slurping the work of Duane Shaffer quite a bit. I'd look more at his record in the draft over the past 10 years or so, and you can't say we've really had many impact players there. It was time for a change, world series win or not. 2 - Rogers needed to look past the .230 averages of Richar and Quentin. Quentin has been injured constantly and when healthy has raked. Richar has a small sample size, and showed enough plate disicipline to suggest if he can raise his average to say .260/.270, he will be a valuable asset. 3 - I like Gio, but even I think he's overrating him there. #2 starter would be the absolute pinnacle for him. 4 - Right now, I'd be very surprised if Sweeney was able to show the same type of power Swisher has over the next 5 years or so. It is funny that Rogers is willing to throw out stats as to how poor Richar/Quentin are (based on major league production) yet ignores the fact that Sweeney has done nothing over the course of his major league games. Plus, I see nothing about how Quentin in his first taste did more than Sweeney ever could have imagined and that a lot of his struggles appear to be due to an injury. I also think he's truly slurping DSL a little early, than again, he did the same with Anderson Gomes and Salvardo Sanchez (Sanchez was the next Juan Gonzalez). I think Rogers is a little over attached to the minor league prospects and I respect that because I think you are either sucessful by being super over protective (and trading no prospects) or taking the opposite approach and being willing to sell any of your prospects at a high level (because over the long haul, by doing so, you will get a major return with only few guys panning out, however if you only do it every once in a while you may end up getting bite in the ass a lot more just based on the odds potentially not evening out).