Chisoxfn

T-Minus 20 minutes.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 11:53 AM) The question is ... how old is he now? Rumor in media I've read is he is another guy with doctored birth certificate. That is 100% bullpucky.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/chicago-sports-tonight Mario and Gage will be back to discuss the White Sox, Bears and Bulls. We will have a large focus on the Sox recent moves and just an overall breakdown of where the Sox currently stand (including discussion of current rumors and other thoughts) as well as a breakdown of the most recent Bears game and much much more. If anyone has any other topics or questions they'd like us to hit, post it here. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/chicago-sports-tonight

You can bet your butt that if he isn't in the Sox plans that you will see Kenny include in him a trade (whether it is with Crede or just by himself for another guy).

I am officially down as wanting and hoping that the Sox get Hunter. Hunter and OC are good baseball players and are fun to watch. I was so freaking sick of the garbage I saw last year and I know with those two here we won't see that sort of play. I have no idea what happens to other guys but I can tell you one thing (and it is a common theme in the Ken Williams era) and thats that I am freaking offically stoked about the off-season. I am getting intrigued with what they could do for Uribe and I'm still holding out some sort of hope that Kenny will find a way to move Contreras contract and get back another good starting pitcher that they can pencil in behind Vaz/Buerhle. Basically put it seems like CF, LF (and the leadoff spot) are two moves that will for sure be made plus you have the Joe Crede deal that seems 99.9% will happen along with a move for the pen (which may happen in the Crede deal). Plus you have the possibility of a Contreras deal or a MacDougall/Thornton type deal and than the wildcard of a Paulie deal. All in all I guarantee at least 3 more big moves out of the Sox (one being the signing of a CFer...I just hope it is one of the big 3).

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:27 PM) Maybe they trade Konerko to Arizona. They have a ton of nice prospects and some cheap young players. If KW is really going for it, and all indications are he is, Jerry Owens is not going to lead off. I completely agree. If the Sox sign a big name FA that will tell me right now that they also have plans to acquire someone to play left field and leadoff with Fields sliding to 3rd and Crede heading out (either for a bullpen arm of in a package along with some prospects for the leadoff hitter). The only remaining question will be whether he really is that confident in his young starters of if he will also make a move for a starting pitcher (or if he will end up jumping on someone like Colon). I also must say if he did upgrade the leadoff spot and brought in one of Rowand/Hunter/Jones plus made a move in the pen that this team would be on paper very strong (the only question being the rotation and with one more move you could still have a relatively strong rotation).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:10 PM) Nothing quite like paying $10M a year for a guy who isn't even good enough to make your playoff roster. IIRC, He would have been starting every game in CF if it weren't for his injury. That said Matthews really tailed off in the 2nd half of the season.

Ya, I wouldn't buy terms being agreed upon yet. If they were we'd know more. I could buy the Sox being close. I know the Dodgers have interest but it appears they prefer Rowand. The question is whether the Rangers are going to put up a massive offer (mainly in terms of years as opposed to $/yr). If the Rangers don't I think the Sox get the nod as Hunter knows damn well that if he goes to Chicago he's coming to a team who has a GM known for going for it year in year out (they may end up being awful next year but you know if the club is in a spot to contend Kenny will do what he can to turn the team into a world series contender at the deadline).

Joe Cowley indicates that the Sox would like to use Crede to acquire a leadoff hitter. The Angels obviously have a need at 3rd base, but after dealing Cabrera I don't know if they are going to be planning on moving another young speedy player (as I figure the next young players they deal will go for a major power hitter). The Phillies would have an interest but I highly doubt the Sox could pry Victorino from them (Bourne would have made sense but unfortunately he was dealt to the Astros). I can't really think off the top of my head any other team that has a plethora of leadoff hitters and use for a 3rd baseman. If the Dodgers didn't want to go with Laroche they could consider a Pierre for Crede deal (but the Sox would have to get a good amount of cash and still I don't think I'd make the deal but Ozzie may push that sort of deal).

Pencil in that 4.5M with the money that comes off the books with Pods/Erstad and eventually Uribe and you are talking about the club being able to add Hunter without really increasing the payroll from last year (and that doesn't factor in the money saved from the earlier Mack/Iguchi deals plus a potential Crede deal). I think the Sox could move Uribe, go after a leadoff hitter using Crede or a prospect, and still have some room to sign a japanese reliever plus make a move for a starting pitcher (that is if they don't want to rely on Danks/Floyd). I'm really excited to have Cabrera in Chicago. He is a really good baseball player. The only semi negative is his age but there is no reason he can't be productive for at least 3 more years (plus he's only signed for this year but assuming he has a decent season he'll command type A compensation so the Sox could always get picks back).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 06:22 PM) :lol: You are dead on. Bottom line, Torri Hunter and Orlando Cabrera make the Sox a lot better. Both are guys that do the little things that it takes to win and the defense will be upgraded immensely (not to mention both are superior offensive players compared to there predecessors). I would still be concerned about the rotation, however, the Sox could still have a move up their sleeve after everything else settles down (grabbing a non-tender pitcher or even packaging up some young prospects for a starter they like that doesn't make much money). I hate losing Jon but I am actually a fan of the OC deal and while I'm sure the Sox would be overpaying for Hunter I'd be a fan of the move since it would stablize CF for a number of years.

What is the scouting report on this guy? Stats look nice but does he have good stuff?

Those are his 2006 numbers. He was out for the season in 2007 and is expected to be back next year. It would be nice if he could regain his form from the first half of 2006.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 06:34 PM) It's pretty obvious Fields is a DH type. Whether he can blast homers at the rate of a Paulie/Thome remains to be seen. He is a butcher at 3B and in LF. Sox pitchers are not gonna be happy at all the errors at 3b. Given actual playing time there is no reason Fields can't be an above average defensive left fielder. In fact, I wouldn't even be shocked if he could play right field and at least at an average rate if he had a season or two of playing outfield in his career. In terms of 3rd base there is no reason he can't at least be an average defensive 3rd baseman and he does have the tools to become an above average one (never at Crede's level but not many guys can do that defensively). I think a lot of you need to realize very rarely do young players come up and consistently play amazing defense. They will flash it from time to time but they will also make rookie mistakes.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) Fassel was the oc in Baltimore (iirc, he wasn't initially, but when he couldn't find a hc job the next offseason, he was named oc). He was fired, he didn't really quit. Apparently he and Billick had a 'discussion' about who was really running the offense, and Billick decided to take control. Billick's an ego, yeah, but you didn't hear complaints from the Ravens players about the move. The Ravens offense isn't very good this year, but I think you can blame that more on the fact that McNair's past his expiration date. Did you seriously say this year. The Ravens offense hasn't been good EVER.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 05:01 PM) Didn't Brian Billick start calling the plays in Baltimore instead of Fassel because he was so terrible? Fassel got the job in New York for his offensive prowess and did a pretty nice job with the Giants offense (hell he turned Kerry Collins career around for a short time). I didn't even think he was technically the OC in Baltimore (he was like an asst head coach) but Billick has such a gigantic ego that he doesn't let anyone do anything. Billick is still living off what Randy Moss did for his career as the OC in Minny (Moss makes a QB with a strong arm look amazing when he wants to suit up...see Randall, Jeff George, Daunte Cullpepper). How Billick has a job is beyond me as his Ravens continue to do nothing but suck on offense and he's supposed to be the so called offensive guru.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Ron Turner and the defense, thanks for another loss. You are both pretty much worthless. Good game by Rex actually, he made due with poor protection and horrific play calls. Rex showed me one thing he hadn't done in the past, he stepped up under pressure and made good throws. The 2 minute drill wasn't very pretty (but he doesn't have a ton of experience in that yet) but he didn't get any help thanks to Fred Miller. Sans those two minutes and the one fumble (but it was a fumble made because he was actually scrambling and not trying to make a mistake) that was probably one of the best games he's had. He really looks like a new QB and he showed some of his old stuff too (he can make some fantastic throws and we saw a good number of perfect passes, balls that many NFL Qb's aren't capable of making). I'm sold on giving him the whole season and let him earn the job for next year. With all the major holes this team needs to spend money on the oline, finding a solid DT (and hoping and praying Harris comes back healthy next year) as well as a safety or two. Oh and keep Briggs.

QUOTE(MurcieOne @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) Devin Hester is on the field.... lets run an OBVIOUS reverse, why not? FOr about 3-4 f***ing weeks the Bears should ocassionally bring Hester out there on a reverse and use him as a gimmick every week. Than after enough of doing that you can finally give him the ball on a reverse. I have no problem with him running routes but every defensive player in the league is watching him if he rolls for any sort of a reverse (so use it to your f***ing advantage and gimmick it until teams finally respect that you fake it and at that point, give him the ball).

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 03:22 PM) From what someone in the NIU athletic dept has told me, the Bears have been very disappointed in Wolfe's speed. I don't think he'll be with the organization next year. Wolfe was a joke of a pick from day one. f***ing terrible decision. Okay if you didn't have Hester and you took him in the 5th round but when you have Hester and Adrian Peterson already the move made no f***ing sense (not to mention the 3rd freaking round). GOod god, Rex played as good a game as possible (made so many good throws, one stupid ass fumble though) and the defense and oline were f***ing turnstyles. I won't even mention Turner anymore. He needs to go away. Please hire Jim Fassel as an OC and do it immediately...please.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) Santana's beautiful arm can pitch out of the pen until he learns how to get his road ERA under 8. At least Danks pitched well for pretty much the entire first half of the season (4.96 ERA over his first 21 starts), Santana is looking like a reclamation project at this point. I must admit I'd have no problem letting Sanatan and Danks duke it out and give the other a spot in the pen (in fact Santana could turn into a fantastic bullpen arm). Hell, if the Angels are down on Santana and we know they have a need at 3rd base why not consider a Santana for Crede deal (I don't know if the Angels would do it, but it gives the Sox another good arm and it gives them options if they do move Garland/Contreras).

QUOTE(max power @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 11:19 AM) Isn't danks exactly what you described? Good arm, low value right now? So you just throw someone else in there because he sucked on another team, not ours? I'm not giving up on Danks, I am one of his biggest fans. But I don't think he should be handed anything right now, he hasn't earned that. However, if those were the 5 arms on the club than they would all be starting ahead of Danks (unless Danks kicked ass in spring training). I believe the Sox would deal Garland later on, but I wasn't going to throw out some ridiculous scenario with 5 random trades, rather was just going to have one trade and one signing and show that the Sox would be a better club with the combo of both (I think the key to the Sox suceeding next year is sadly moving Paul Konerko as he has tremendous value but the Sox need a couple good players as opposed to one very good player and Paulie can get the club just that).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Jason, why do you have that awful, awful pitcher Ervin Santana in the rotation? And where is John Danks? Danks pitched his way out of a rotation spot as far as I'm concerned (that is at least what I would tell him because I want him busting his ass off and I want him to show major strides next year). But I basically threw that up as the rotation until Garland/Contreras gets moved (and than Danks would slide in as the 5th starter but he would have to battle). As far as Santana goes, I think he has a great arm and good stuff and I can't see why the Sox wouldn't be able to buy on him low and turn him into a solid starter. I love guys with good arms and low trade value and right now that would be Santana (than again I always wanted the club to get Juan Cruz and aside from a good season or two out of the pen he hasn't exactly panned out).

That is ridiculous. Than again the offer the Yanks are giving Rivera is absolutely assinine.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 18, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) You nailed it on the head, and something like this is what I see happening. I also agree that if something big doesn't happen by the end of the winter meetings, it means some or most of KW's plans fell through. In fact I am a bit surprised some move hasn't happened already, be it large or small. Crede for a bullpen arm or one of the outfield spots would make some sense and I think that will probably be the first piece to drop (unless of course they are able to get a hold of Rowand or Hunter and make something happen). Than I think Kenny will turn to the trade front and do the remainder of his stuff there. Possibly selling two players in Konerko and one starter but also likely adding other young players (maybe a young SS who he really likes but the club will also know they have Uribe there in case any of the young infielders at 3rd/SS/2b fail). Hell if you could add a Rowand to the lineup and than move Konerko for a package around Kochman/Figgins/Santana (and i have no idea if the Angels would do such a package) than you would really have retooled your lineup with two moves. Trade Crede for a bullpen arm and you are in business (this doesn't even get into the Garland piece where the Sox could opt to move him for another starter that they like that they would have under there control). In fact, on the basis just those two moves would give you a lineup of: Figgings Rowand Thome Dye Kochman Fields AJP Uribe Richar Rotation: Vazquez Buehrle Garland Contreras Santana Bullpen: Jenks MacDougall Thornton Logan Wasserman (Person you traded Crede for) The only major holes would obviously be Uribe and Richar (Richar has some upside and Uribe when on is a premiere defensive shortstop). The Sox lineup would lack the power it once had but you still have a few guys that will hit 30 HRs (Crede/Thome) and guys with 20 Hr power (Fields/Uribe). The rotation would have the possibilities of being stellar but it would also give Ken Williams the option to move Garland for other pieces (a shortstop like Furcal or a top shortstop prospect and top pitching prospect; think two top 5 organizational prospects). To me the main way the Sox can rebuild is by using Konerko (and I have no idea if the Angels would give up all that for Paulie but I could definitely see them considering it), a free agent signing and than the trades of Crede/Garland to do the rest (hell if they could move Contreras instead I'd have no problem giving Garland a fat contract because financially I think the team could afford it).

QUOTE(spiderman @ Nov 17, 2007 -> 12:40 PM) With those rumors of Hunter possibly getting 6 years, I don't think the White Sox would be willing to do that (smartly) too so I really think that CF is more likely to be filled through a trade with somebody like Coco Crisp. I know Rowand is probably next on the free agent list in CF, but is really worth $10-11 million a year over 4 or 5 seasons ? As far as pitching, I just don't think this team will be near the top of the division if they have to depend on both Gavin Floyd and John Denks as the #4 and #5 starters. If the White Sox are unable to sign Hunter, might they be willing to look at resigning Garland instead with this money ? Just an idea, but it's hard to compete with a mediocre starting rotation. I'd go 4/48 with Rowand and hope he will be more like he was this past year. I don't know if his success was due to some sort of adjusmtent in his swing but you really can't argue his numbers (they were stellar). He'd be able to fill one of the up the middle positions for a number of years and bring back a good team player and a fan favorite (it seems like a win win...yes it may be too much money but the reality is if your gonna buy a player its gonna cost a good deal and the Sox don't have the farm system to be able to buy too much using prospects).