Chisoxfn

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 08:20 PM) It's Crede who's on the way out....trust me. I don't doubt it and I think Kenny is just posturing to give himself a bit more leverage by using a quote like this. However, If some team were willing to give Kenny a blue chip talent (who he likes more than Fields) than I could see him making the deal (although he loves Fields).

I wouldn't be stunned if Kenny could get a young impact player with a package surrounding Fields. Still, Crede is probably the guy whose on his way out.

I think both can be solid players but Bay screams left fielder who isn't great defensively while Quentin is a guy with loads of defensive tools and quite a bit of offensive upside. I think Quentin could have some seasons like Bay did, all while playing better defensively. Note: Key word is "could". Still I am a big believer in building a roster with as much talent as possible and seeing what pans out.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:57 PM) That sounds nothing at all like the Ozzie Guillen we've come to know, in terms of not being in love with the speedy guy. Ozzie made the OBP comment, and honestly, the 2 deals we've seen have helped with that. But I still think Ozzie will focus on having a speedy guy at the top of his lineup, and unless someone here wants Podsednik in CF next year, Owens looks like the default. Ozzie ripped Owens a lot early in his time up. He also commended him on how he had improved and actually played with confidence upon his second stint. Still I think the Sox realize Owens has a very limited ceiling and they have a plan that doesn't involve Jerry. At teh same time it can do nothing but help the Sox by indicating they have some confidence in Jerry (both in giving Jerry some trade value but also in Kenny at least not appearing totally desperate when it comes to FA negotiations with Rowand/Jones or trade negotiations).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:51 PM) God, I can't put into words how stupid it would be for this team to give up Cunningham, while in a position of needing more OF's, for Richar, and then give up on Richar after 2 months of surprisingly rapid growth, in order to pick up Loretta or Iguchi because they've decided those 2 guys are their only leadoff options. The question is could the Sox live with Rowand and Cabrera as there 1 & 2 hitters. The OBP wouldn't be amazing but both guys would be very solid and serviceable that is for sure. Plus they are great defensive players and in Rowands case if he did what he did last year from the 2 spot he would be posting not only a good OBP but a great average. You than hope that Richar eventually develops and you can than actually slide him to the leadoff spot in time (but go with the veterans Rowand/Cabrera early on). Again I should add that the Sox add a good starter (Kenny and Ozzie have done nothing but preach pitching and I continue to think if he moves Konerko you will see him buy a pitcher).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:42 PM) I'm not saying he wouldn't have a ton of value...it's just that the definition of "A ton" might be somewhat less than what people think we'd get for him. He's not going to draw the same amount that Santana, Bedard, Haren are talking about no matter how much we might think so. Balta, you'd probably be just as good as anyone else when it comes to this. Do the Dodgers bite on Loney or Kemp plus Broxton for Konerko? I think they would do it. The Sox would be getting one front line stud position prospect (both of whom have already produced at the major league level) as well as a projectable young reliever (they obviously could go for other Dodger prospects, but it seems like Kenny would like another good arm for the pen and Broxton would definitely be that). I'd obviously prefer Billingsley but that may not be realistic.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:42 PM) I'm not saying he wouldn't have a ton of value...it's just that the definition of "A ton" might be somewhat less than what people think we'd get for him. He's not going to draw the same amount that Santana, Bedard, Haren are talking about no matter how much we might think so. I think right now teams are more glued to Cabrera, but once Cabrera goes Konerko is the best available bat (absolutely no doubt about that). He has a fair contract, has produced on world series teams, and is known as a very good clubhouse guy (plus he's a great defensive 1st baseman). Any team in need of a major bat (after Cabrera goes) would be knocking down the Sox door, imo. I think they could easily get a 2 young major league players and an above average prospect (similar to the rumored Dbacks trade or what some of us would like from the Angels). Another sleeper has to be the Dodgers. A package headlined by Kemp or Loney plus a starting prospect and a reliever would have to interest the Sox. In fact I think the Sox would do a Kemp or Loney plus Broxton deal straight up (I also think the Dodgers would make said deal). The one problem with the rumored Dodgers deal is that the Sox would still have a potentially weak rotation (again that could be solved with the Sox going out and giving up a good chunk of arms for one good young arm). I'd definitely be all about having Loney play 1st, with the Sox spending Paulie's money on Rowand or Jones and than shipping out Crede/Uribe for prospects (they wouldn't need a reliever) and than packaging MacDougall and whatever minor leaguers for a good young starter.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:39 PM) Am I the only one who thinks that the reason for not dealing Konerko might not be that KW doesn't have the balls, but that no one offers the King's ransom you guys want for him? I'd say that about a lot of GM's but not Kenny. If he was willing to deal Aaron Rowand coming off a world series championship he'll be willing to deal Paul Konerko if it makes the team better. Kenny could give two craps about the fans opinion of things because he knows deep down the only guaranteed way is to ensure a packed house is by winning (not just winning over half your games, but by competing for the playoffs and consistently having a shot to and hopefully win the series). Bottom line if Kenny has a move that makes the team better he will do it (whether it means giving up Paul Konerko or Mark Buehrle or whoever the hell else).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:34 PM) My prediction is we sign Rowand in the next week, and Owens will leadoff and play LF vs rhp, and Cabrera will leadoff vs lhp. It's too bad we didn't make a run at Josh Hamilton, as the Reds might be talking to the Cubs about him. If the Sox sign Rowand I expect Rowand to be the 2 hole hitter with OC leading off and Richar in the 9 spot. Quentin would be down in the lineup and like Richar have little pressure on him early on (which should help both develop). I really don't buy into Owens starting next season. He just isn't near as talented as Quentin (or Sweeney for that matter). There is very little logic in the Sox moving Carter for a platoon guy. There is a whole lot of sense moving Carter for a guy with similar upside (if not better upside) that is major league ready (who also fills a much more major need, ie a good defensive outfielder).

QUOTE(BearSox @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 03:10 PM) Dodgers have offered him a two year 16 million dollar contract... KW Better be all over this. As in 8M per season or 2 years at 16M per year. I assume it is the latter?

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) The sox just got their Jason Bay in Quentin. Now could Fukudome be next? It could depend on how likely could he hit leadoff and play CF. I don't think I'd call Quentin Bay. Bay has had a couple all star seasons already.

If the O's can get good packages for Bedard and Tejada (as well as Roberts). I"m talking major league prospects to go around there other guys they could find themselves in very good shape 2 years from now (they are coming off one awesome draft).

If you can get Harden for a package surrounded by Egbert and prospects or Broadway and prospects you do it. But if it costs Danks/Gio/DLS than I think you pass.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) I think it's definitely the case. This is also vintage Kenny. The deals Kenny seems to do best on are the ones where he deals one minor leaguer for a guy who has a high ceiling but has seen his stock fall a bit. That didn't work out great when it came to Andrew Sisco, but look at a lot of his best trades and these types of deals tend to greatly favor the Sox (I do believe Sox scouts/Kenny have a good eye for these type of guys). Hopefully Quentin is 100% and will be able to really turn things around. I also want the Sox to be patient with him. I'm also exstatic to hear they would consider moving Paulie. Afterall, there are almost zero bats out there (Cabrera is an amazing bat, but aside from that teams would have to give up a ton of cash for Jones or Rowand and neither of them are the consistent bat that Paulie is nor do I think he's a risk to be named on the Mitchell report like a certain SS from the Orioles that is on the market). I also must say that while I'm not a big Owings fan, it is hard to argue against a rookie who posted his numbers in a hitters park all while being in the midst of a penant race. He has a good build for a pitcher and solid stuff but he definitely doesn't project as a #1 or #2. However, if the Sox were able to pick up a good young reliever, a solid young first baseman, and a guy like Owings (who would make the rotation better) and than use some of there excess pitching prospects to acquire a young front line starter (Dan Haren/Joe Blanton type) I'd be all for it (with the Sox also moving Contreras for cap relief). Basically give up 2-3 of your pitching prospects plus one of your major league relievers and Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney (I'm not saying you can get Haren for that, but dangle that package out there to a number of teams with good young pitchers and see if one of them bites). If you have Jackson at 1st, Quentin in RF, and Rowand or Jones in CF (Dye moving to left) with Pena moving into the pen (him/Linebrink/Jenks are good from the right side and you still have Thornton/Logan from the left with MacDougall going in a deal for a starter). Solid young lineup, with some pop (Jones/Dye/Thome should hit for plenty of power still). Than have a rotation with Javy/Buehrle/Haren or Blanton or other young good starter/Owings/Remaining 5th prospect (Egbert/Danks/Gio/Broadway/Floyd) and Id say you'd have a shot at contending if everything goes right (and if it doesn't you'd have a team that should be on the upswing and even better in 09).

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 04:52 PM) I really, really, really doubt that KW went and got Quentin to platoon with anyone. He's starting in LF, unless he's flipped in another trade. And Phil Rogers seems to be the only person so far who doesn't like the trade. He also has a type in his little article - he thinks the magic left after the All-Star break in 2005? I'm pretty sure he meant 2006. If Kenny gave up our best position prospect with the mind of getting Quentin as a platoon guy I'd throw up. I just have to hope that isn't the case. Otherwise I love the deal because the Sox are getting a guy whose ready now and is a better bet of being a solid big leaguer (I say that because Carter needs to be great offensively to stick, since he is weak defensively while Quentin, even if he is just solid offensively will be solid because of his defensive ability and base running).

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 02:54 PM) Love this deal. I love Carter, but Quentin is damn good. Hopefully he isn't trade bait. Seriously, I can't get past how excited I am about this move. It is the exact type of move I've been calling for (where you get a good value for a player, a guy who has a lot of talent, and it isn't a short-term move as Quentin should be a very good long term big leaguer). Get me a big name Cfer' and than try to swing Paulie and I"d be totally happy (especially if they add to the rotation).

Awesome. They can negotiate throughout the season. You just aren't able to apply any portion of the signing bonus to this years cap.

Gosh darn it I just love this move. The Sox now have 3 young position players with a good level of upside in there everyday lineup (Quentin, Richar, Fields). I am actually hoping that Quentin will play RF with Jermaine Dye sliding to LF. If Kenny can acquire a quality leadoff hitter/cfer I'd be quite happy with the retooling of the lineup (the pitching staff is still a question-mark and I hope Kenny has a trick or two left up his sleeve when it comes to that). Please get a quality leadoff hitter/cfer Kenny. He also still has Crede/Uribe/MacDougall to offer up to squads. I hope the Yanks gets Johan which than enables Coco Crisp to be available in CF (I know a lot of people aren't fans of him, but I'd be perfectly content getting him assuming the price isn't any more than MacDougall and a Kyle McCulloch).

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 07:19 PM) I don't care how they portray into the NFL, and your accuracy on that statement is questionable. The Heisman, or who is a better player than whom, has NOTHING to do with the nfl or draft status. And Tebow is easily the best player in the nation and is having one of the best qb seasons in the history of college football. And three losses? Brennan played me and 10 friends on defense week to week and barely won many of them. They play Florida's schedule and they have more than 3 losses. If the Heisman vote is even close the voters should be ashamed of themselves. Jones sounded like a complete moron. I think Tebow has had the best season, with McFadden possibly being the best football player (in the sense he's a bit more complete and projects better while still being a great college player at the same time). I'd give the vote to Tebow as statistically he's done somethings no QB has ever done and he's done it while playing elite competition. I would have had no problem going with Brennan if it weren't for him being injured for a couple games and his numbers suffering during that span. Tebow just had a ridiculous year.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) Agreed and I believe one of the posters here has a quote in his signature from Guillen where he comments on this issue. Guillen said something like, it's not about the speed of a leadoff guy, it's his ability to get on base. I was really happy when Ozzie made that quote too because it was a bit of a diversion from the past Ozzie. I'm hoping Ozzie learned a lot about the x's and o's of the game this past season and that we will see a much improved in game/strategic coach because i Do believe Ozzie has a knack from getting the best out of his guys most of the time and I think he also has a good approach in that he is confident in what he does (whether you buy into it or not, you got to have confidence from the guys at the top and neither Kenny or Ozzie lack that).

QUOTE(Beltin'Bill @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 07:36 PM) Insight? Not being a smart alec, but I have heard a lot of points to offer concern over Jones, including: -Young in age, but not time served. His body has already experienced over 10 years of service time -One of the more overrated center fielders over the past few years. Does not get to nearly the number of balls he used to and has been handed GG the past few years based on reputation alone -heavier than in years past -feasts on average/mediocre pitching -has really gone for the long ball swing (see last year's numbers) I am too lazy/busy to look this stuff up, but I was hoping someone could refute the negativity. Sounds like Boras might be having trouble doing the same but maybe I am not reading enough articles. I am not an INsider, you know. Jones was phenomenal in CF this year. He shed pounds and gained speed and range. Even prior to that he was still well above average, he just wasn't playing at his elite status (when he was younger, Andruw may be the very best to ever play the game defensively in CF). Offensively some felt that his lighter frame actually contributed to his lighter average. I think it had to do more with him pressing for a contract and getting into some bad habits offensively. That is just my hunch and I would hope the Sox have scouts/coaches looking hard over Jones swing from this year to last year and swinging if there were minor things that changed and led to his regression at the plate (if those things weren't physical than I'd be all about signing him because I think he'll be the best value, along with Rowand in this market). I happen to think Rowand made adjustments and will be a very good player the next couple years (he won't be amazing by all means, but he'll be an above average cf'er who does pretty much everything well and nothing truly great).

Chw, please refrain from using that word in the future.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 05:45 PM) I thought that's exactly what I had written. We're probably the two biggest Rex fans on this site....but I'm sure people will blame him for this. I hope they enjoy Kyle Orton. Oh god, I hated Griese (he's a solid back up, he's just not a starter) and I am scared about Orton. Orton has a slow release and takes forever to really muster up the arm strength. Rex isn't a guarantee but he's made a ton of strides since reclaiming the starting job and has all the tools you want (with the exception of size and additional speed). He is now making plays when everything goes wrong and being much more willing to take a sack or go with his checkdown guy. Plus he makes more than a handful of throws that just leave you speachless (in the sense that he throws the ball to the perfect spot and it is on passes where most guys couldn't even attempt the throw). I thought you were saying that RB was the biggest need and not the oline, but I guess I was wrong (I think the RB situation gets solved by fixing the oline situation). I'm not even that concerned about QB (but like you said, we are Rex's biggest supporters).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) As much as I like how Peterson played in the first half, he absolutely sucked in the 2nd half. There were 3 big plays where he couldn't break a single tackle. Most people will complain that the Bears biggest need is at QB, but I think RB is a much bigger issue (along with all the other glaring issues). Come on, the offensive line is by far the Bears biggest need. QB doesn't even rank on the list. Rex is the QB. Peterson showed exactly why he is an outstanding 3rd down back and nothing more. Benson with a good line is fully capable of being a solid back. The injury is the only issue and I still wouldn't draft a RB till the 2nd round. I'd probably take Oline, RB, oline in the first 3rd's. The tackle going in the first round and the guard in the 3rd round. Behind Oline, the next biggest need are the DT's and the safeties. I happen to think the Bears will hope Harris/Dvoraceck come back healthy (and than sign a veteran run stuffer to come in, kind of like what Ian Scott was for them in the previous seasons). Hell, WR is a far more pressing need than anything else. I hope they resign Berrian, keep Moose, work on getting Hester more involved and sign vet that has good hands (you can always find solid vet WR's that get cut somewhere and still have something left). I'd like to draft a WR, but I just think the other things are more pressing (unless the Bears opt to sign a vet RB, but that could be expensive) in which case I have no problem taking a WR in rd 2.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) This is what cracks me up about trying to pick the best conference. How do we know the SEC was good? How do you know the Big 12 was solid? Seems to me the big 12 is just as good as the big ten - a couple of "top" teams (even though only one team truly proved its better - OU) and the rest were crap. The SEC was the same way. Rankings mean diddly crap because at the beginning of the year the SEC had some highly ranked teams, who then played and beat up each other. So even if Team A sucks and beats Team B who also sucks, if Team B happens to be ranked then it looks like a "good loss" to a "good team." With no reference whatsoever, its hard to compare conferences and decide who is better - unless there's a top matchup, like a Texas-OSU, in the non-conference part of the schedule. And after this season I'm officially just as good at predicting how good/bad teams are than the "experts." I think this season more than any other has proven that there are no "dominant" programs - with the reduction in scholarships more talent is going to mid-level teams, opening up more and more chances to beat "top" teams. It much more has to do with the fact that USC, Ohio State, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, and to an extent LSU were very young teams (this list of teams makes up a vast majority of the national title contenders over the past 5-7 years). Next year those teams will be absolutely prime to dominate and we will see a number of awesome teams in college football (most of those teams have damn near everyone coming back and should be prime to have a shot at running the table).