Chisoxfn

Bottom line I think any time you discuss what the Sox can do to get better you always have to factor in the rest of the division. In an easy division, I'd be much more of a fan of sticking with the veterans and trying to find another stop gap because I believe that type of team would easily be able to take out a bunch of young or mediocre teams (say if the sox were in the NL Central). If you are in the AL Central, an already strong division with a couple teams that are already strong and possess good farm systems than you have to factor in not only the fact that you will have to be a lot better next year, but you also have to factor in that those teams may even get better in the coming years based on youth development alone. The Twins are one of those teams that I actually think will be better next year (more likely in 2009 though) than they were this year as I think Slowely and Garza and some of there other young pitchers will have figured things out all while that offense should stay strong (especially if they are able to get a lot for Santana).

Hall may have been the worse player in all of baseball. In fact, given the amount of games he played in, he has to be the worse player in all of baseball.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Sep 28, 2007 -> 09:56 AM) Good thread guys. A lot of different but well expressed opinions. I didn't see the game, so my comments will be based on what I've read here and elsewhere. Broadway stated the he pretty much threw his cutter exclusively as that was the only pitch he could consistently throw for a strike. I believe I read that at the Trib's website. If that's the case it tells me two things. One, if he was facing the Yankees or Red Sox, they would have lit him up the 2nd time through the lineup. Two, either he just had a feel for the pitch or it is a pretty damn good pitch. That remains to be seen. Regarding the comment that a pitcher shouldn't learn how to pitch in the majors, well, that is correct but only to certain extent. The only way to learn how to consistently get major league hitters out is to face major league hitters unless you just really have some seriously nasty stuff. It usually takes time for a pitcher to develop the know how to be an effective big league pitcher. That is something you can't learn in the minors. Of course, there exceptions to that rule, but Lance Broadway will not be one of those exceptions. You are exactly right. I think the key is to get a pitcher ready to be able to mentally handle the major leagues and have enough command to where he can get by. The rest he is going to learn on the fly at the major league level as there is only so much you can learn at the minor league level. Broadway seems to have very good confidence and mound presence to go with great movement and I think long term he will actually turn into one of the better members of that draft class (and this is after I consistently ripped him). Guys with that type of movement don't tend to get hit very hard (although I obviously have to see him repeat the performance but I assume he typically has that much life to his pitches).

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 28, 2007 -> 08:48 AM) I know, I know. BUt just by judging the hitters reactions to the different pitchers, Lance impressed me. And I keep pointing to the at bat where gathright almost broke his arm trying to swing at an inside fastball on a 3-2 count. Lance was filthy, and really impressed the hell out of me last night. I would love nothing more than to havethis kid come up and be Garland-esque. I definitely think he has the ability and obviously more seasoning for him in AAA could be in order. As Gene mentioned, if he consistently pitched like this he wouldn't have posted the numbers he did down in AAA (as they were pedestrian). However, you could flat tell he was confident and even without excellent command (as he didn't have the greatest control during parts of last night game) he was still able to dominante a mediocre to poor Royals lineup. And it wasn't just the results, it was more the HOW (ie the sick movement and the fact that there were only 2 or 3 hard hit balls).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 05:33 PM) *waits for Ned Yost is an idiot response by Greg the Bull or, well, you* Yost has done a horrible job.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 08:03 PM) I think the more effective one will be whoever gets better command sooner. I definitely don't think having both in the same rotation would be a winning combination. Gavin has a better FB and curve, but Broadway has much better mechanics and movement and will be the better long term pitcher. I do think Floyd can be a solid 4th or 5th though but he won't be an ace.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 08:00 PM) It's too bad he didn't get more starts over the last month or so. I still think Floyd needed starts as did Danks (just to see if he could recover). I wouldn't have minded not starting Contreras (hell I'd have waived his ass) but it turns out that ended up working out pretty well (as he may just have some trade value after all). In fact, I dont' know if Jose has another start left, but if it were me, his season would be over and we'd see Heath Phillips or someone else go (just to make sure Jose's season ends on a positive and the club can try selling his last 8 starts ERA and what he did last year and the year before that).

QUOTE(3E8 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) No love for House? House is a tremendous comedy/drama. The new season is pretty cool and it will be interesting to see what they do with the team (I assume the other people aren't coming back and I don't want any spoilers if anyone actually knows based on contracts).

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:56 PM) There was an article in the last couple days in one of the papers, saying that Broadway was learning two new pitches this year. I'd guess his walk total may be somewhat related to that. The Comcast gun was showing 88-89 for the FB, but, it also showed Riske not getting above 88 or 89, and I know he can throw low 90's. So I'd guess Broadway was about where the scouting reports put him - 90-91 FB. I'm not sure if the slider or changeup is the other pitch as I always thought he had thrown the change in the past (although I briefly recall hearing something about him changing grips on his change so that could very well be it). I do know he worked very very hard on his 2 seamer this year (which was a new pitch for him in 07).

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) The gun seemed accurate based on the other pitchers in the game. I'd say he was at 87 consistently. I wonder how he'd do against a patient team, as the Royals weren't exactly working the count. The best thing that could come out of this is if his trade value increases, as he's not an AL starting pitcher, IMO. The Royals did work the count early in the game. The Royals obviously aren't a good hitting team, but with his movement he can get anyone out and there is no reason not to be surprised with his lack of confidence in the command of the 2 seamer (its what led to all the walks and its a completely new pitch). I've heard from a couple people that I trust down in the minors who indicated how his control problems were directly tied to him working really really hard on getting his 2 seamer down. I don't feel its unrealistic (considering he has always had pretty solid control prior to adding this pitch) that he will get more used to the pitch and movement and really turn into a guy that has good command. If you can have good command of an 87-89 MPH (with that sort of movement and the ability to move it every freaking way) and that curve (plus a mediocre change/slider) than you will have a long career in the AL or NL.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:43 PM) Great post. Very informative on what you saw out of Broadway. I think it's dangerous to deal Jon, but that's just me. I would not trust Danks/Flod/Gio/Egbert. Hopefully we'll get some new long relievers if our rotation consists of just 2 reliable starters and a bunch of unknowns. I'd really like to keep Garland too, but If the Sox aren't interested in resigning him (and are already maxed out payroll wise with Buehrle/Javier in the rotation) than I would have no problem moving him and Contreras. I do think if you did that you'd have to get at least one starter from somewhere else and than pencil two young guys into the back spot. I have zero interest in bringing back the 45 year old Contreras and I just hope his good pitching down the stretch leads to the Sox being able to get a good prospect for him or a guy like Furcal (really good player that makes a decent amount of dough). Than you parlay Garland into more wiggle room financially (which could go to the club acquiring a position star) as well as some good prospects (hopefully a promising starting pitcher and position player).

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:47 PM) With what I saw of Broadway, it was mostly 90 or 91 MPH on the fastball, his slider was 84 or 85 that often moved more like a cutter, and he threw an occasional changeup that was in the 79 to 81 range and an occasional curveball that was at about the same speed, but really dove downward. I'd tell you what kind of fastball he has, but man it had a lot of different kinds of movement. Some cutters, but a lot of sinking movement on his pitches. The velocity was pedestrian, but he just had a boatload of movement on all of his pitches, which led to a lot of strikeouts and the Royals just could not center the ball. Maybe the walks at AAA were due to the movement being a bit unpredictable for all I know, but he was impressive tonight at least. Interesting to see what happens with Lance next March. Ya, that movement was ridiculous. He could run it in and out all day long and that should bode well with him being able to get lefties and righties out. Plus he could throw it up and down in the zone (he had a nice one on Buck, got Gaithright on an elevated fastball) and than down in the zone he got a good number of grounders with some nice sink. Hell, all that movement almost acts as a few different pitches as opposed to just a fastball. This is a guy that if he improves his command could really be a solid starter.

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) What was the FB like 91-94? 89-92? I really want to know. The Comcast gun never reached higher than 89 and for the most part was 86-87. I have no idea if that gun was accurate at all though. Hell the Comcast gun is probably the worse gun in sports. That said I know he can't really top 92-93 (and even that may be a bit of a stretch). I will say this...if the gun wasn't on (and I was purely guessing speed based on the hitters reactions) I'd have said he hit 93-94 at least a couple of times. The ball really seemed to explode into the mitt and you could see he blew at least a few guys away with fastballs (Gaithright on a fastball coming in on his hands...Buck on a high fastball).

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:34 PM) It really sucks, but you no what mode I've been in for a few months now. I got really excited for this game. It was the first game I dvr'd in some time just because I love watching young players play.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 07:05 PM) Stupid Royals can't get on tv in their own state. I would have liked to see Broadway. How did he look other than the obviously good numbers? It's good to know he can at least pitch well against a AAAA lineup. Look at my post. YOu know how much I've ripped Broadway, but I'm really giddy about this kid now. I think he could have a very solid career for a number of years (he'll never win a Cy Young, but I can see him winning 16-17 games at least a few times in his career).

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 06:18 PM) Moving runners over, veterans hitting, good pitching, if they'd played like this all year they'd have won the pennant again. GO SOX! Agreed. This influx of youth is starting to pay off. I'm hoping Kenny/Ozzie are taking note that they are being rewarded for being patient with some of these young players (Fields/Richar/Owens) and its paying off as they are all getting better and better and bring much needed energy to the club (and league minimum contracts). Just a great game to watch, sans a couple defensive miscues.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) wow, impressive inning for Lance, just wow. He may have broken gathright's wrist. He's just filthy. That fastball is sneaky fast. It looks like it explodes close to the plate. Very few hard hit balls all game, 2 hits, a boatload of k's. I'd like to see him ahead in the count more, but he definitely got stronger as the game went on and has some filthy movement to his pitches.

Broadway made his first major league start tonight and I must say that my opinion of him has changed massively to what it was prior to the start. Prior to the start I had him pencilled in as a guy that I'd trade in a heartbeat but now I feel most confident in him being our 5th starter next season (heck, I'm as confident in him as I am in Danks). I also think the Sox brass all had there eyes on this start and while it is unwise to evaluate a guy based on one game, its hard not to look at this game and his prior relief outings and not come off impressed. Broadway doesn't posses dominant major league stuff, but we all knew that. Hell, we knew that when he was drafted in the first round and while there were some that felt the Sox made it a reach, he was still wideley considered a first round to supplemental round talent based on his curve ball. However, you also have to factor in his movement and I barely saw a ball out of Lance's hand that came out straight. He was able to run the ball in and out of the zone & up and down the zone all night long. You don't see that type of ability out of many young pitchers. He still has a pedestrian change-up, imo as well as a pedestrian slider (which I think is more of a cutter than a slider) but that spike curve looks like a great out pitch (especially if he can throw strikes as hitters will chase that curve all day long). Right now I think Broadway has tremendous mound comparison, great movement, a good curve and the ability to become a good #3 pitcher with improved command. The best part is he seems to have a very fluid delivery and that should make it easier for his command to improve with experience (and just him getting more and more used to that new 2 seamer). This guy, along with Danks/Floyd/Gio/Egbert are the reason why the Sox are going to move both Garland and Contreras this off-season. In fact, with time, I think Broadway has the ability to have a career similar to Jon (although Broadway is obviously a bit older than Jon was when he first reached the majors).

I'm too afraid of needles.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 12:25 PM) Hey someone else who loves how I met your mother. I honestly think Jason Segel is one of the greatest unknown comedy actors going right now. Ya, it is easily one of the 3 best comedies on tv.

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) I've been waiting for Jericho for a LONG time. Was part of the campaign to bring it back after CBS unjustly cancelled it. Others on my list include.....nothing really. I don't watch much syndicated TV. Maybe The Office if I can catch up with it in time. I was able to not see 1 episode of Heroes until the entire Season 1 came out on HD DVD, and then watched it all at once. I'm a big fan now, but trying to wait for that to happen to Season 2(I know, long wait in store). Oh, and I watch any Gordon Ramsey show as well, he amuses me. Jericho is back...correct?

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 08:29 AM) None of the new shows really entice me. I'm just waiting patiently for the returns of Jericho and LOST. I can't wait to get some new Jericho and I hope the ratings pick up this season so it can become a show that last a couple years (or that it at least will be able to air to an ending so we get answers).

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 10:00 AM) If NBC would somehow get rid of the incredibly unfunny 30Rock, Thursday nites could be the best night of TV ever. I can't wait for the new episodes of everything else, including the final season : of Scrubs. I've never seen 30Rock but I know its a really accredited show (gets a lot of great reviews and everything). But I'm all about Scrubs, ER, Earl, and the Office.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 27, 2007 -> 08:28 AM) Been waiting for this one for a while. I actually still watch ER, so there will be some great season premiers tonight. Ya, I still watch ER too. I never watched the first 3 or 4 seasons and than started watching it later on when I would see it and than once I got a DVR it was one of the shows that made my weekly recordings.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 26, 2007 -> 02:52 PM) The roto portion might have mistakes, but it's from the Sun Times... Tribune's blog says that Tillman indicates he is fine. Also indicates that Vasher didn't practice and may miss Sundays game.