Chisoxfn

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) Jas you have watched the last few starts and all of Javys starts this year. This is not the first time this has happened. Outside of the Royals he has a problem with the 3rd time through. See, I think of it more as him having trouble with runners on and it just so happens to be that the bloop hit seems to come later in the game and than he falters. Today he did a better job with runners. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but he really is looking better. I realize I'm in the minority here though and I can't blame you guys for thinking the other way.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) i thought he handled vazquez fine tonight, i thought javy only made two really bad pitches tonight...the change to morneau was left up, and he absolutely hung a slider to mauer and got lucky that mauer swung and missed....again, ive said it like 10 times....i still have 0 idea why anyone pitches to mauer in teh situation they did I completely agree with that. When you are hitting what he is and you got Cuddyer on deck I'm going with the guy thats not hitting .380, especially once your already behind in the count.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) You and I disagreed on this in the thread, but I think we can both agree that if it's a similar situation in his next start, he needs to get pulled before too much damage can be done. We're facing the Twins bullpen...it's not like the KC bullpen where we can afford to fall behind and then catch up. I agree, however, I like Ozz am a big fan in sticking with your starters (and for the most part I'd probably manage my starters similar to Ozz with the exception of the ocassional starts where Ozz gets a little high on the pitch counts). But ya, Ithink he's coming out regardless of the situation next time around. However, I think we look at this more closely because he has struggled recently but this isn't a career trend and I do think Javy can buck it. He made adjustments with runners on that seemed to work, problem was Cuddyer hit a pitchers pitch (he was cheating in) and Morneau is a good HR hitter who still hr'd despite getting it off the end of his bat. Honestly and I know a lot of people would hate to see it (and I guess they are happy I am not the mgr) but if he had 5 innings like he had, I wouldn't have done anything differently.

I really can't blame Ozz. Its hard to listen to the stats that say Javy can't get guys out late in the games, when he throws so dominant and had barely been hit for 5 innings.

What we need is some wins and the Rally Crede is tired like the Sox right now. The Angels wore out the Rally Monkey and Soxtalk will not let the Rally Crede wear out. He's going to eat steaks every day till the post-season and than be ready and waiting to help the Sox (if needed).

In general I'm on the board that says we gave up some awfully good arms to get a guy whose got a great arm but really has yet to put it all together (not to mention two arm injuries). I understand Kenny did whats necessary, but this (along with the Javy move) are about the two moves (at the time they were made) where I was left thinking they were questionable. I saw the logic in them though and while he overpaid, he did fill a need (RH Reliever) by getting us MacDougal.

QUOTE(loltrain @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:18 PM) Eric Wedge. Or not.

I'd like to say welcome aboard. We have a thread discussing Javy and his problems so in a few minutes I'll move this post there (but I want to leave it open so you see this and realize the post was not deleted, rather moved). Secondly as someone thats backed Javy the past couple weeks I do think its relatively frustrating. He made some good pitches in the 6th but got beat and than in the 7th he did get himself into a rut and Cotts almost got through it, but instead gave up a monster hr. It hurts that Javy did this for 2 straight starts (cruising and than voila) but I don't see the club trading its pitching. Kenny has repeatedly said he will not trade any of his starters and unless he gets blown away (or someone has an attitude spat) I think for the most part this is the team that we are going to go with down the stretch. Its just a matter of the team getting some clutch hits and quality starts and as far as I'm concerned the talent is there. One thing I'm openly concerned about is whether the playesr are wearing on Ozzie. I'm not in the know when it comes to that so I can only hope thats not the case.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:07 PM) If Ozzie pulled this stuff on his xbox, the vibration controller would of shook feverishly to let him know its not a good idea.

If MacDougal is healthy, I think its a hefty price but we'd be getting a pretty good reliever in return. If he's injured, than it could be one of those moves that really backfires. Just like the Vazquez deal would pan out if we could get Javy straightened out, if we couldn't, it could really backfire.

Javier Lopez - Tell me when he does something; Riske >>> Javier and it isn't close Joe Borchard - Matt Thornton is a steal, don't see you critisizing that move Vazquez - alright, question it. I've long said if we knew the others would have signed and Kenny would have still made this move I would have really been hard on him for it. At the time he didn't know Jon and Jose would have signed He didn't know Hermy would have the troubles he did, in fact he got very mad at Hermanson for not informing him of how he really felt early in spring. Cotts - still a darn good reliever Politte - figured he'd fall back, but you can't predict injuries In General, please stop being so reactionary. Ken Williams has made quesitonable moves in the past and he's never afraid to give up prospects, but aside from Chris Young, Lumsden, and maybe Cortes (big maybe since he's still in Low A) most of them have no panned out (the verdict is still out on the ones I mentioned).

Assuming the Tigers make the playoffs, it must be Leyland.

Definately rough past two starts for Javy. We are in golden position and than all of a sudden gone. Its too bad the offense couldn't have come through thus far and man it hurts to be a Sox fan. Maybe they''ll make something happen.

QUOTE(Shamrock4Life @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:59 PM) Direct Quote from Nuke, "Vazquez is a worthless piece of spiff. He is the greatest 5 inning, barely qualigy for a win worthless dirtbag who ever picked up a baseball." Hey don't shoot the messenger. Does this make me a narc? O, the swear filter is pretty (a term for a man who likes another man). and so is suspending someone for calling it that. And you can have fun being suspended as well.

That was strike 3, just wasn't where AJ was setting.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:54 PM) Terrible...simply terrible. According to good baseball people like jason, he had his good stuff again tonight. It's so disturbing that he's had great stuff the last two games, and still had his typical 3rd time thru problems. Can't say what went on in the 7th, but in the 6th it was good hitting. Its rough though since I'd be the first to admit its a scary trend. The thing is, this isn't a long term trend (career wise) as its not like he's been ridiculously offer late in games in his career.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:54 PM) So is "focking" still cool to use? Why doesn't the hit and run ever work for us? Ozzie claimed he would pull Vazquez if he was in a situation where he might give up the lead. I remember him saying it during the second Cubs series, and he hasn't enforced it once. The point of the swear filter is to put swearing to an end, obviously there are some loophoes, but if people are going to try and go around them, they will be suspended. We have put them in place for a reason, people are using it too much and now the ability to do so is gone.

We could use a 2 out rally here. Come on Gloadie

QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:43 PM) spiff...lol this swear editor is GAY And you my friend have been suspended.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:41 PM) are you serious? even if he's been decent today that still doesnt excuse this happening EVERY TIME OUT. Every time out...the guy is a 200 inning pitcher so its not as if his entire career he's making this mistake (struggling later in games). Its not a matter of the 6th inning, its more so a matter of him having a mechanical flaw which was CORRECTED tonight (he changed the way he pitched with a runner on and it prevented him from rolling his breaking balls). This club needs Javy and he's given them a quality start tonight and should be out in the 7th inning. The offense has been the one to fail to execute thus far tonight but it seems to be working opposite field and I'm confident in our chances. Oh an this post goes to all...for spiff sakes stop over-reacting, watch the games and watch the pitches, it will be a whole lot easier to evaluate things.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:39 PM) can some1 please explain to me why the f" ozzie let javy pitch to justin after that homer(cotts was ready)...and countinues to let him pitch....we all saw this coming. Because it wasn't a bad pitch. Javy wasn't rolling breaking balls or overthrowing. All you do is tip your cap and show faith in your pitcher. Ozzie made the right call and I'd have Javy out again in the 7th.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:38 PM) It would just be great for him to actually not choke in the middle innings. The 3rd time thru the lineup really kills him. He made the pitches, the only exceptoin was Morneu hit a semi hitable pitch (still a decent pitch in which Morneau hit ofut off the end of his bat). Cuddyer's pitch was a good pitch. 3 runs is not the worse thing in the world over 6 innings and his stuff looks fabulous. You can't expect shutouts every game and all you can ask is for a guy to make his pitches and keep a team in the game. Thus far Javy has done just that. And not to slam on ya, but considering your listening to the game (or thats my assumption since you talked about Singleton) I find it hard for you to comment on him choking if you haven't seened the pitches.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:37 PM) Why did we get a swear filter? Cause too many people took advantage of our leniency and it won't ever happen again. People want to swear, they can go somewhere else.

3-2 Minny

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 06:36 PM) You fishing tore him to shreds 2-3 weeks ago See how open I am to changing things. I've seen a lot out of this kid to completely change my mind on him.